CommieChipmunk
Member
+488|6837|Portland, OR, USA
Okay, I've been wanting to do this for a while but have never found the time.  I'm sure many of you have a decent grasp on how evolution/natural selection works, but that doesn't explain where life came from.  I'm hoping that this gives you a better understanding.

Let me start off reminding you that this all took a very, very long time.  Hundreds of millions of years makes this theory very plausible.  That's a hell of a long time.  If you took a calender and mapped out the evolution of the entire earth in one year, humans would appear a couple of minutes before midnight on December 31st. We're so incredibly insignificant in the big picture, yet so amazing when you actually think of how we got to where we are.

Formation of the earth

     So... in the beginning.. the planet looked nothing like it does now.  The universe was much different and clouds of dust/gases and clumps of rock/ice started to gather around the sun.  These clouds began to collide, compress.. gravity took effect  and the earth was slowly formed.  These "clouds" probably cooled around 4.5 billion years ago .  Since the earth was in a mostly molten stage, density took effect and heavier metals (nickel, iron, etc) sank towards the core and lighter ones 'floated' to the surface and this process began to form the crust, the mantle and the core. (crust is the outer surface, basalt, granite, low density rocks.. The mantle wraps around the core and is very high density, molten nickel/iron). We can assume that about 4 billion years ago, the earth had a very thin, very hot crust, but withing 200 millions years, life originated.

Early earth

     Of course the conditions were much different than they are today, the atmosphere was probably a mix of gaseous hydrogen, nitrogen, carbon mon/dioxide and probably little to no pure oxygen -- that likely built up as superheated rocks (volcanic activity) gave off oxygen.  Also the oxygen probably would have reacted quite readily with the other free elements.  There was also likely water vapor, as the surface was probably much too hot for water to pool on, but condensation did start to cool the earth down, and this is essential for the formation of the first (and really any) cell membranes which could not have formed without water.  Water likely did collect after the first several million years along with eroded minerals in depressions that would become the first seas.  So, this was huge no water = no cells. No cells = no life.

Organic compounds (this one's huge if you skipped the first two)

     Keeping in mind that this process has taken millions and millions of years, we move onto the next big event, the formation of organic compounds (carbon containing molecules).  Essentially, cells are made up of proteins, complex carbohydrates, lipids (fats), and nucleic acid (DNA).  Cells assemble these molecules from smaller organic compounds (simple sugars, fatty acids, amino acids and nucleotides).  Now these can be assembled spontaneously, and energy (heat, sunlight) drives these reactions.  How you ask?  I'll explain it in a pretty general descriptions, if you want more Stanley Miller and the Miller-Urey Experiment are the places to look.

Miller-Urey Experiment

     Okay, so these two scientists had an idea that if they stuck a whole bunch of gases that were present in the atmosphere of early earth in a complex array of tubes, added water vapor and a spark (to simulate lightening), they could essentially recreate some of the first compounds that led to life.  So, they mixed methane (CH4), ammonia (NH3), water vapor and gaseous hydrogen in a glass ball connected in an extensive array of tubes that included a chamber of boiling water, a condenser, a vacuum and electrodes (for the spark).  The boiling water gave water vapor, which traveled up into the ball of gases/electrode, then down into the condenser where it dripped into a little collecting tank.  Within a week, they had amino acids and other small organic compounds inside of that chamber.. the bases of life.  In other similar experiments, scientists were able to get the synthesis of glucose, ribose, deoxyribose and other sugars, along with adenine using different gases that would have been present on early earth.  Glucose, is essential for life (it's a basic carbohydrate/sugar that is pretty much pure energy), and ribose and adenine are found in ATP and NAD+ and nucleotides which are also essential.

Okay, so we have organic compounds.. what now?

     There are plenty of hypothesis's that predict what happened next.  I'll outline a couple.  One says that when water drained, clay served as a template for the spontaneous assembly of proteins/other complex organic compounds.  How?  Clay is made of thin layers of aluminosilicates with metal ions on the surface, which attract amino acids.  Amino acids + clay + warmth + rays from the sun = condensation reactions that yield proteins and other complex organic compounds.  Another hypothesis states that complex organic compounds formed spontaneously near hydrothermal vents on the sea floor.  Amino acids + heat + water = protein.  Regardless of how proteins came to be, they had the structure to form weak enzymes, and would have had an advantage to compete for available amino acids.  (First natural selection anyone? )  Proteins would also have had an advantage in that they would have had the capacity to bind metal ions against other agents of metabolism.  Metabolism = life.

Metabolism

     Metabolism is the capability of cells to harness energy by reactions in order to drive their activities.  So during the first 600 million years, we already have enzymes, ATP and other organic compounds that probably assembled spontaneously (and I should probably say this now, spontaneously doesn't mean that they assembled by chance.  But rather they assembled because of favorable conditions) and in the same location. This close association would have encouraged chemical interactions/the beginning of metabolism.

Self replicating systems

     Another factor needed for life is the ability to replicate.  How do we do this?  DNA, a stable molecule that is easily replicated before each cell division.  Of course, DNA was not spontaneously created in the primordial goo.  However, in experiments containing the compounds previously talked about, RNA, enzymes and coenzymes (I won't go in depth with what these do because it's kind of confusing and quite frankly, not all that important at the moment) have been synthesized.  Why does this matter?  RNA would have originally served the basic process that DNA does now.  RNA is limited in that it can't form long nucleotide chains as DNA can, but it would have aided the creation of early life and helped early life reproduce.

We have proteins, we have enzymes, we have RNA, what's next?

     We now have many of the basic components needed for life, what else is there?  Well we need something to encompass everything and separate it from the outside world.  Plasma membranes serve this purpose.  They are basically a "phospholipid bilayer" that surrounds cells (hydrophilic phosphate head with hydrophobic lipid tails).  They use proteins to keep a balance between what the cell needs inside, and what it doesn't need outside.  They probably initially were simple membrane sacs that surrounded and protected information-storing templates and metabolic agents from the environment.  Again, there are experiments that show that they can form spontaneously, one guy heated amino acids until they formed protein-like chains and then put them in hot water.  Once cooled, they formed small stable spheres, another experiment exposed them to lipids and they created the phospholipid bilayer.  Now not all of the pieces of the puzzle are complete, and a lot of 'chance occurrences' would be needed for everything to work as needed... but we're talking hundreds of millions of years.

Finally, cells...

     The first living cells originated in the eon known as the "Archean eon" (3.9-2.5 billion years ago).  Chances are, they originated on tidal flats or in seafloor sediments.  The fossils that we have (stromatolites) if you live in Australia, go check them out, while they're much more recent, they descended from the same thing you did..) indicate that early cells were like bacteria we see today.  They're called 'prokaryotes' and they have no nucleus.  In fact, the first living cells were probably nothing more than membrane-bound, self replicating sacs of DNA and complex organic molecules.  They probably secured energy through anaerobic pathways (as oxygen was scarce if it existed at all in its natural state O2) like fermentation.  Energy was plentiful, geologic cycles had already filled the seas with organic compounds and predators were nonexistent, obviously.  From there, the rest is history.  The prokaryotes evolved into more advanced eukaryotes (cells that have a nucleus and probably initially only an endoplasmic reticulum for protein transport), then cell organelles (mitochondrion, vacuoles.. etc..), protists, fungi, plants, animals.

Last edited by CommieChipmunk (2008-03-12 21:11:22)

mtb0minime
minimember
+2,418|6922

I can honestly say I didn't read the entire thing and just skimmed over it, but nevertheless, this is a great post. I took a class on this a year ago and everything matches, especially with the Miller-Urey experiment and the stromatolites. Once you read and think about this stuff, it all makes sense. Maybe one of these days we'll be able to teach this stuff in schools without having a backlash from religious nutjobs.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,980|6899|949

Read Cosmos, one of my favorite books of all time - Carl Sagan.

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2008-03-12 19:29:02)

SEREMAKER
BABYMAKIN EXPERT √
+2,187|6836|Mountains of NC

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Read Cosmo, one of my favorite magazines of all time
fixed

https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/17445/carhartt.jpg
Mutantbear
Semi Constructive Criticism
+1,431|6232|London, England

SEREMAKER wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Read Cosmo, one of my favorite magazines of all time
fixed

GAY
_______________________________________________________________________________________________ https://i.imgur.com/Xj4f2.png
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6809|Texas - Bigger than France
Don't forget about the impact of the moon - it used to be close enough to cause a tidal effect where the water was thousands of feet high, rotating around the Earth every few hours.  Water scoured the land, adding new compounds to be used for organic reactions, and also mixed the stuff over and over.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6868|132 and Bush

What happened before the big bang? What set the big bang off? How much longer will the Universe continue to expand... defying the laws of gravity? Explain the components of dark matter.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6796|Global Command

Pug wrote:

Don't forget about the impact of the moon - it used to be close enough to cause a tidal effect where the water was thousands of feet high, rotating around the Earth every few hours.  Water scoured the land, adding new compounds to be used for organic reactions, and also mixed the stuff over and over.
One of the best science books I ever read was based on these articles.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6868|132 and Bush

ATG wrote:

Pug wrote:

Don't forget about the impact of the moon - it used to be close enough to cause a tidal effect where the water was thousands of feet high, rotating around the Earth every few hours.  Water scoured the land, adding new compounds to be used for organic reactions, and also mixed the stuff over and over.
One of the best science books I ever read was based on these articles.
If the moon didn't exist we'd be spinning around in all directions for one.. . North would be south etc.. etc..
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Laika
Member
+75|6211
According to me, the universe started because before the universe, there were no laws of physics to prevent matter and energy from exploding into existence.

Last edited by Ataronchronon (2008-03-12 20:15:46)

Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6868|132 and Bush

ATG wrote:

Pug wrote:

Don't forget about the impact of the moon - it used to be close enough to cause a tidal effect where the water was thousands of feet high, rotating around the Earth every few hours.  Water scoured the land, adding new compounds to be used for organic reactions, and also mixed the stuff over and over.
One of the best science books I ever read was based on these articles.
Actually I have a DVD on the subject..

https://i25.tinypic.com/2rop0dz.png

http://shopping.discovery.com/product-52214.html
Xbone Stormsurgezz
mcgid1
Meh...
+129|6984|Austin, TX/San Antonio, TX
This does a pretty good job of summarizing a very deep anc complex subject.  Even with all the time that these processes had, it still amazes me that life managed to take hold. +1 for you.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6868|132 and Bush

Ataronchronon wrote:

According to me, the universe started because before the universe, there were no laws of physics to prevent matter and energy from exploding into existence.
So the explanation is there is no explanation. You are moving into the realm of Philosophy .. not physics.

The questions I asked are common unanswered questions amongst astrophysicist. Since we are borne from stars, our role in the Universe.. the very meaning of our existence, might be the Universe just trying to understand/explain itself.

Another recommendation..
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html

Along with some of the others I listed in the book thread. http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pi … 9#p1932479
Xbone Stormsurgezz
cowami
OY, BITCHTITS!
+1,106|6557|Noo Yawk, Noo Yawk

The answer is 42.
https://i.imgur.com/PfIpcdn.gif
Laika
Member
+75|6211

Kmarion wrote:

Ataronchronon wrote:

According to me, the universe started because before the universe, there were no laws of physics to prevent matter and energy from exploding into existence.
So the explanation is there is no explanation. You are moving into the realm of Philosophy .. not physics.
Exactly, physics simply cant be applied to explain a "time" before physics. Perhaps even my logical explanation is wrong due to the possibility of the lack of logic before the universe.

The questions I asked are common unanswered questions amongst astrophysicist. Since we are borne from stars, our role in the Universe.. the very meaning of our existence, might be the Universe just trying to understand/explain itself.
Interesting.

Last edited by Ataronchronon (2008-03-12 20:47:27)

CommieChipmunk
Member
+488|6837|Portland, OR, USA

Kmarion wrote:

What happened before the big bang? What set the big bang off? How much longer will the Universe continue to expand... defying the laws of gravity? Explain the components of dark matter.
This is only a suggested theory as to how life evolved on this planet.  As far as the universe... heh.  I doubt we'll ever know how the universe came to be, and if we do every find out (if there is anything to find out) I have a hunch that it'll be a while from now.

Last edited by CommieChipmunk (2008-03-12 20:57:54)

Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6868|132 and Bush

CommieChipmunk wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

What happened before the big bang? What set the big bang off? How much longer will the Universe continue to expand... defying the laws of gravity? Explain the components of dark matter.
This is only a suggested theory as to how life evolved on this planet.  As far as the universe... heh.  I doubt we'll ever know how the universe came to be, and if we do every find out (if there is anything to find out) I have a hunch that it'll be a while from now.
But the pursuit is fun.. at least for guys like me and you. We might not have the mental capacity to grasp the beginning of time... of course our ancient ancestors wouldn't have had the ability to grasp the internet.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6868|132 and Bush

CommieChipmunk wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

What happened before the big bang? What set the big bang off? How much longer will the Universe continue to expand... defying the laws of gravity? Explain the components of dark matter.
This is only a suggested theory as to how life evolved on this planet.  As far as the universe... heh.  I doubt we'll ever know how the universe came to be, and if we do every find out (if there is anything to find out) I have a hunch that it'll be a while from now.
You can't discuss the evolution of life on earth (Early Earth) without referencing cosmic events such as the formation of the moon (IMO at least). It is what gives us a stable ecosystem.
http://shopping.discovery.com/stores/se … o+Moon+DVD
Xbone Stormsurgezz
CommieChipmunk
Member
+488|6837|Portland, OR, USA

Kmarion wrote:

CommieChipmunk wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

What happened before the big bang? What set the big bang off? How much longer will the Universe continue to expand... defying the laws of gravity? Explain the components of dark matter.
This is only a suggested theory as to how life evolved on this planet.  As far as the universe... heh.  I doubt we'll ever know how the universe came to be, and if we do every find out (if there is anything to find out) I have a hunch that it'll be a while from now.
But the pursuit is fun.. at least for guys like me and you. We might not have the mental capacity to grasp the beginning of time... of course our ancient ancestors wouldn't have the ability to grasp the internet.
That's true.. it's fun until you try to grasp things like "forever" or "before this universe."  At that point my brain explodes and nothing makes sense.
Lai
Member
+186|6418

cowami wrote:

The answer is 42.
Commie Killer
Member
+192|6654

CommieChipmunk wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

CommieChipmunk wrote:


This is only a suggested theory as to how life evolved on this planet.  As far as the universe... heh.  I doubt we'll ever know how the universe came to be, and if we do every find out (if there is anything to find out) I have a hunch that it'll be a while from now.
But the pursuit is fun.. at least for guys like me and you. We might not have the mental capacity to grasp the beginning of time... of course our ancient ancestors wouldn't have the ability to grasp the internet.
That's true.. it's fun until you try to grasp things like "forever" or "before this universe."  At that point my brain explodes and nothing makes sense.
Yeah I agree, I think it may be harder for us to understand what we already know then to find more information.
Commie Killer
Member
+192|6654

CommieChipmunk wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

CommieChipmunk wrote:


This is only a suggested theory as to how life evolved on this planet.  As far as the universe... heh.  I doubt we'll ever know how the universe came to be, and if we do every find out (if there is anything to find out) I have a hunch that it'll be a while from now.
But the pursuit is fun.. at least for guys like me and you. We might not have the mental capacity to grasp the beginning of time... of course our ancient ancestors wouldn't have the ability to grasp the internet.
That's true.. it's fun until you try to grasp things like "forever" or "before this universe."  At that point my brain explodes and nothing makes sense.
Yeah I agree, I think it may be harder for us to understand what we already know then to find more information.
irishtop
Hopscotch Champion
+11|6430|Houston, Texas

cowami wrote:

The answer is 42.
ROFL. that quote is just perfect for this situation. good thing you talked to the computer

well i guess thats about it /thread

Last edited by irishtop (2008-03-14 15:51:26)

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