BF2S Forums Harvard Sets Women-Only Hours for Gym, Complying With Muslim Students'

lowing wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

lowing wrote:

Are you honestly going to tell me that you believe a Christian group who would want EXCLUSIVE use of the gym based on religious beliefs WOULD get their request granted?? Naive.

they don't want exclusive use of the gym, if I remember correctly. We are talking 4 hours per week, in one of three university gyms. I wouldn't call that exclusive. And they also said that this was for all women, regardless of religion.

And yes, as Scorpion said, if there were a christian group that held the same views with regard to covering up, I'd consider it very likely that they'd try to lobby for the interests of their demographic, too. Seriously, lowing, this is only newsworthy because these women happen to be muslim. If any other group of women had asked for a couple of gym hours so they don't have to face testosterone-motivated activity during their workout, this would have been barely noticed.

It is news worthy because no other religious group is as oppressive to their women as Islam. Therefore no need for such bullshit requests.

Also for 4 hours a week during that time period. It is exclusive. The point being it is special privileges granted for special groups,  and should not be accepted.

oh come on. From what I can tell, america is the classic example of a country where lobbyists cut deals for the interests of their special group all the time. Why would you want to deny that to young muslim women ?

They merely asked for a couple of gym hours of their own, so they wouldn't be subjected to the kind of activity that is often associated with male testosterone overflow. It is not uncommon for gyms all over the world to have similar regulations. At my gym, for example, there are special women-only sauna schedules. Do I mind that ? Hell no. It is not even a minor inconvenience.

Disclaimer: I know lobbyism happens in every other western democracy, too. I was not trying to single out the US in that regard.

Lowing, its seams to me that your political system is heavily influenced by lobbyists of all kinds.


Comparing this to apartheid measures is weak. Men and women are different and that is accepted. Men and women are ruled by different hormones so are fundamentally different. Black people have a different colour of skin, but the genitalia, hormones and everything else that defines the sexes is the same no matter what colour or religion.

If you look at this the same way, a bunch of fat women don't want men to see their flesh as they work out and a bunch of Muslim women who don't want men to see their flesh when working. One is vanity brought on by social conditioning, the other is religious vanity brought on by social conditioning. I don't see much of a difference. You couldn't compare it to apartheid.
The difference is, I see this as women wanting privacy to work out, something that a proportion of women of all religions want.
You see this as Muslims wanting to further pull down the fabric of your nation. We will never agree.

Harvard men should ask for a discount proportionate to the amount of time they aren't allowed into the gym. If the gym dues are 24 dollars a month, and they aren't allowed into the gym for 3 hours a day, they should get a $3 a month discount.

Then they should sue  ;-)

JahManRed wrote:

Lowing, its seams to me that your political system is heavily influenced by lobbyists of all kinds.


Comparing this to apartheid measures is weak. Men and women are different and that is accepted. Men and women are ruled by different hormones so are fundamentally different. Black people have a different colour of skin, but the genitalia, hormones and everything else that defines the sexes is the same no matter what colour or religion.

If you look at this the same way, a bunch of fat women don't want men to see their flesh as they work out and a bunch of Muslim women who don't want men to see their flesh when working. One is vanity brought on by social conditioning, the other is religious vanity brought on by social conditioning. I don't see much of a difference. You couldn't compare it to apartheid.
The difference is, I see this as women wanting privacy to work out, something that a proportion of women of all religions want.
You see this as Muslims wanting to further pull down the fabric of your nation. We will never agree.

Then go to an all womans gym that exist in every city. Problem solved

lowing wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

lowing wrote:

I am against ALL lobbiest groups, including the ones that seek special favor for Muslims. This is not an anti-Islam stand, it is an anti-special treatment stand. If they are concerned about it, go to an ALREADY EXISTING all womens gym, where they can work out 24/7.

Again I will ask..Who is asking for equality here, you or me?

well, as I suggested, it could well be that the use of university gyms is included in the tuition, while Curves would cost extra. If that is the case, it sounds like a reasonable argument to me. I am speculating here, of course.

You say that this is not about the fact that these female students happen to be muslim. Well, would this even have been a newsworthy story for Fox, if those female students would not have happened to be muslims ?

This is not an equality issue. No one's civil rights are violated by granting women special hours at gyms. Rather, we are paying tribute to the fact that some women may feel uncomfortable around men while working out. And because we are gentlemen, we respect that.

And btw, it seems we're both asking for equality.

Nope, we are not, you want to grant special favors and treatment to a group of people that are not afforded to other groups. That is favortism and undue bias toward that group....

I never said civil rights are violated nor human rights. I said it is undue special treatment to a special group.

the gym i go to has certain 'women only' hours for one of the studios I think... can i blame them? Not really. 99% of the gym's patrons are men, so women would rather not have their stuff checked out.

Granted, I'd wager that a lot of the gym-goers there are gay (not a knock btw... the gym just happens to be near one of the more openly homosexual areas of DC...) but it still stands

HurricaИe wrote:

lowing wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

well, as I suggested, it could well be that the use of university gyms is included in the tuition, while Curves would cost extra. If that is the case, it sounds like a reasonable argument to me. I am speculating here, of course.

You say that this is not about the fact that these female students happen to be muslim. Well, would this even have been a newsworthy story for Fox, if those female students would not have happened to be muslims ?

This is not an equality issue. No one's civil rights are violated by granting women special hours at gyms. Rather, we are paying tribute to the fact that some women may feel uncomfortable around men while working out. And because we are gentlemen, we respect that.

And btw, it seems we're both asking for equality.

Nope, we are not, you want to grant special favors and treatment to a group of people that are not afforded to other groups. That is favortism and undue bias toward that group....

I never said civil rights are violated nor human rights. I said it is undue special treatment to a special group.

the gym i go to has certain 'women only' hours for one of the studios I think... can i blame them? Not really. 99% of the gym's patrons are men, so women would rather not have their stuff checked out.

Granted, I'd wager that a lot of the gym-goers there are gay (not a knock btw... the gym just happens to be near one of the more openly homosexual areas of DC...) but it still stands

If a women of all religions and races asked the school for seporate hours, I would not have an issue, as it is it MUSLIM women wanting exclusive use of the gym for RELIGIOUS reasons. THis is unacceptable to me. No special interests groups need apply for special favors in my world

haven't we all stared at the tv when erik prydz was on mtv ?

if they feel they are being watched... let them have their hours at the gym. i could not care less

B.Schuss wrote:

lowing wrote:

If a women of all religions and races asked the school for seporate hours, I would not have an issue, as it is it MUSLIM women wanting exclusive use of the gym for RELIGIOUS reasons. THis is unacceptable to me. No special interests groups need apply for special favors in my world

well, if I read the article correctly, although the reasons behind the request were religious, the gym will be open for all women during these hours, regardless of their religion.

And as far as equality is concerned, to me, equality also means that any group should have the right to lobby for their interests. Wether those interests are then followed up upon by those in charge, is something completely different.

Btw, if you were in charge, would you allow women-only gyms in the first place ? Or would that also be a special favor for a special interest group ?

Womens only gyms are acceptable, hell even Muslim women only gyms, I do not care. THe probelm is they are taking a gym that is UNDERSTOOD to be universal in every way and taking time away from it for a specific group. No can agree.

The spirit behind the favoritism is religious in nature. I can't agree with it. Just like I would not agree if Christians wanted to have a Christian based work out schedule for whatever reason they might be able to dream up.

No, women are not a "special interest" group. Too diversified a group to be called special interest.

I believe in the BOY Scouts of America, I also believe in the GIRL Scouts of America.

I can honestly say I believe in the HOOTERS Girls as well.

I do not expect to go to HOOTERS and be served my chicken wings by DAVE, my waiter.

lowing wrote:

SenorToenails wrote:

You have to be kidding me.  Lowing--you are arguing over this? 

Harvard is not blocking all men from the exercise during those 2 hours a day, they are merely setting aside one of many recreational facilities for women.  This is not a violation of anyone's civil rights.  There are multiple other locations where men can go exercise, many of which are attached to the residential buildings (according to the article).  I hardly see a potential for erosion of equality and civil rights here.

I double checked my posts again and I still can not find where I said anyones civil rights were violated.

There are other facilities that offer womens only gyms. The one in question is a universal gym, that Muslims want exclusive access to during certain hours. I do not agree. If this is the case then go find a Muslims only gym, or start one up.

Lowing you could start a row in an empty room.. Firstly, saying " Muslims want exclusive access to during certain hours" is incorrect, I suggest you actually read the article before posting rubbish comments on it. The Gym is open to all women, not just Muslims at these times.. Secondly if we are to live together with different religions / cultures, then we are going to have to be courteous to these traditions / religions and reach a compromise that enables us to live together with out offending each others sensibilities,  it's called  "accommodation". Though in your crazy mind you see it as appeasement....probably...

ha ha man you really are gas..

IG-Calibre wrote:

lowing wrote:

SenorToenails wrote:

You have to be kidding me.  Lowing--you are arguing over this? 

Harvard is not blocking all men from the exercise during those 2 hours a day, they are merely setting aside one of many recreational facilities for women.  This is not a violation of anyone's civil rights.  There are multiple other locations where men can go exercise, many of which are attached to the residential buildings (according to the article).  I hardly see a potential for erosion of equality and civil rights here.

I double checked my posts again and I still can not find where I said anyones civil rights were violated.

There are other facilities that offer womens only gyms. The one in question is a universal gym, that Muslims want exclusive access to during certain hours. I do not agree. If this is the case then go find a Muslims only gym, or start one up.

Lowing you could start a row in an empty room.. Firstly, saying " Muslims want exclusive access to during certain hours" is incorrect, I suggest you actually read the article before posting rubbish comments on it. The Gym is open to all women, not just Muslims at these times.. Secondly if we are to live together with different religions / cultures, then we are going to have to be courteous to these traditions / religions and reach a compromise that enables us to live together with out offending each others sensibilities,  it's called  "accommodation". Though in your crazy mind you see it as appeasement....probably...

ha ha man you really are gas..

I have already explained, there are ALREADY womens only gyms. GO to one of them. This gym is unisex. The reasons for the special treatment is not sex based it is religious based. WOMEN did not ask for this..MUSLIM women did.

lowing wrote:

ghettoperson wrote:

Lowing:

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2007/03/ … x434,0.jpg

http://www.slrcamerainfo.com/images/j/m … p-wide.jpg

I get the thunder and lightening ( I think), but ya lost me on the tea cup.

Strom in a tea cup Lowing duh!

No Lowing Muslim Female Students who have a right to use the gym, have asked to be accommodated and do not object to exercising with other females of what ever religious persuasion..  Nor have you acknowledged your incorrect assertion that they want the gym to be "Muslim exclusive". Your usual hate filled scaremongering non?

Last edited by IG-Calibre (2008-03-07 03:52:15)

lowing wrote:

IG-Calibre wrote:

lowing wrote:

I get the thunder and lightening ( I think), but ya lost me on the tea cup.

Strom in a tea cup Lowing duh!

No Lowing Muslim Female Students who have a right to use the gym, have asked to be accommodated and do not object to exercising with other females of what ever religious persuasion..

So we agree, it is accomadating a religious group. I knew we would.

They have a right to use the gym WHENEVER they want, and everyone else can have their times posted. Special interest

No Lowing they can't us it "whenever" they want, because their religious sensibilities dictate otherwise, this is what you fail to grasp.  However they do not want the Gym to be Muslim exclusive as you state incorrectly (and have still yet to acknowledge), they just want to be able to exercise, in a campus gym,  along with women of all denominations not just Muslim.  Only your to ignorant and bigoted to see that.. Now i'm done, i'll leave you to rave on in here on your own about the end of civilisation as we know it, have fun!