Spearhead wrote:
Ok, Flaming, I just want to say one more thing before Kmarion can deliver a knock out punch (hopefully)
You and I are both hypocrites. We both know it. We both know messed up shit is going on somewhere in this world, everyday, all the time.
Really? I know there is messed up shit going on, but my point is I don't care. I can't care.
Spearhead wrote:
Do you ever wonder why veterans and victims of traumatic events have PTSD? It's because they lived their life in a shell, to put it frankly. Me and you, we have never known what it's like to be shot at, or to be in Manhattan on 9/11. We live in a shell that society puts us in. I think, if you truly realized how fucked up the world is, you would be insane. Veterans of combat have seen what it's like. They know we are, in the cosmic sense, pieces of meat walking around on this pointless Earth. Our lives could be over without us even realizing it.
So, in my opinion, there is only one way of maintaining your sanity -- deep down inside, you HAVE to hope things will get better. Maniac, I think deep down inside, you hope things can get better too, like me. But you think it's such a ridiculous possibility, you might as well not admit it to other people. Because in your mind it's dumb. But deep down, you think the same way I do. Because if you didn't, if you TRULY knew how
fucked up the world was, and there was no hope for change, you would've killed yourself already. You wouldn't be here on these forums, chatting to people online while thousands and sometimes millions of people are dying in countries and lands we might've never even heard of.
I only maintain that I can make the world better, if for no one else but myself. I hold no hope that someone else is going to make life better for me or anyone else out without any ulterior motives.
I can't say on an emotional level I feel the pain of everyone in the world or some crap like that, but I think I have a pretty good feel of it on an abstract level. One of my strengths (or weaknesses) is to step back and look at the big picture, and when you do that a whole lot of stuff gets pointless real quick.
As it is though, the difference between you and me is the reason you don't go bat crazy is because you hope that some day things won't suck, and I just don't care that things suck because they don't suck for me. My outlook is very selfish, but if you look at the human race as a whole, and it's history, I just can't look at it any other way. The past just doesn't give any reasonable signs that things will get better for the human race as a whole. With that in mind, I just can't feel responsible for every bad thing that happens in the world, and if I can't do something about every single of them I'm not going to do it for any of them. I will work for what directly effects me, my family, the competent people in my life, and my country, and after that no one is getting any of me. It's just different ways of going about life, that's all there is to it.
Spearhead wrote:
Ever seen the movie or read the book "Children of Men"? It's about the human race not being able to reproduce. That is what the world would be like, if people truly knew, and not just aknowledged, how fucked up the world is. They would commercially sell products which helped you commit suicide.
Advocate of assisted suicide.
Spearhead wrote:
Although we're both hypocrites, maniac, we are not the lowest of the low. People here in DST might have some pretty radical ideas, left and right, but NO ONE who posts at DST is as bad as the lowest form of life.
You know what I'm talking about. The people who don't vote. The people who don't care about the world around them. They are the lowest fucking scum on this earth. Like the Iraq war or not, I sure as hell don't, I acknowledge that the Americans who died over there died in the name of my freedom to disagree wth the war. So I'm going to vote, and try to make my world better. Republicans do the same.
Agreed, especially on the voting part.
Spearhead wrote:
That's all I gotta say. I don't think anyone with an ounce of intelligence thinks this world is good, or even not bad.
I think people are neither good nor bad, that in a societal sense they are evil. They will always look out for themselves and no one else, unless helping someone else helps them.
Spearhead wrote:
This world fucking sucks. All I did was point out a few subtle, maybe meaningless, hints that matter to me.
Sorry to rain on your parade.
KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
And LOL at Kmarion and FlamingManiac. What I find amusing (and makes me LOL) is the ideas both of you are propagating/debating - the pointlessness of hope, inherent human morality/human nature, apathy towards the human condition, the idea of Dunbar's number and the implications, etc - are philosophical ideas I understand best when talked about in that context (as an idea/thought).
I'm confused, what is "that context"?
KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Flaming_Maniac wrote:
There is the same chance of human rights violations around the world, there is the same chance of a genocide around the world, there is the same chance that there is an oppressed group of people around the world. If we both take a 1000 year slice of history, you believe (not to put words in your mouth) that there are ups and downs in that time period, I believe that every bad event had the same likelihood of happening as a good event at that period, it is just a matter of a roll of the dice. Nothing fundamentally changes about the dice just because different numbers come up at different times.
I don't really think you can equate human nature to a roll of dice, or make a general comparative analyzation of the past 1000 years. The idea of a global community (which we are moving towards and have been for at least 100 years) is evidence that what would happen 1000 years ago wouldn't necessarily be able to happen now. As long as we as humans analyze and learn from history, we can positively create change in the global community.
Ah you're right, we could kill people wayyyyyy better in the 20th century than we could in preceding centuries.
We are making leaps and bounds in concerns to technological advances, infrastructure advances, and advances in societal structure, but the basic building block, the human, has changed very little. There will always be people trying to pull humanity up, and those trying to tear it down, there is no getting away from that fact. I mean, do you really think there will never be a horrific event bigger than the Holocaust?
Kmarion wrote:
Flaming_Maniac wrote:
Flatter myself? But my mind is a beautiful diamond. sad
You cannot find flaws in someone's opinion standing on its own, you can only find flaws between what you thought their opinion is and what their opinion actually is. At worst this is unexpected, but this is perfectly in line with the rest of my ideals. Thinking you know what someone's general line of thought is being quite presumptuous yourself.
Just because you are hard headed it doesn't mean you have a diamond in there. When people show a trend of expressing themselves in the same manner then you can get an idea of their general line of thought. Passing judgment on their emotions is entirely different.
An idea of the general line of thought, but to assume posts that you deem out of character are inconsistent (short of CyrusTheVirus style posts) is silly. One of the many reasons party lines are abominable.
I don't pass judgments on emotions, I pass judgments on actions.
Kmarion wrote:
Flaming_Maniac wrote:
Extremes give way to clarity? In my experience they twist the truth.
It is what I said it was. Somehow this made you get defensive.
Then yes, from the perspective of all of humanity, the Holocaust was an unavoidable, logical outcome. It was going to happen to somebody, somewhere, and it happened to be the Jews in Germany.
Kmarion wrote:
Flaming_Maniac wrote:
Yes, these specific incidences get me riled up, but everyone has particular subjects they get all touchy over.
Obviously.
You don't have any?
Kmarion wrote:
Flaming_Maniac wrote:
As I said it does trigger emotions, but to be so blatant as to say you can relate to the situation is truly degrading. Unchecked emotional responses are utterly meaningless in a rational world, so you better actually mean what you say when you open your trap about caring for someone.
Some people do relate. Some people just understand. One does not excluded the other. There is nothing degrading or insulting about expressing sympathy.
There is in expressing fake sympathy. I will only concede some people are better at faking being able to relate and understand that they believe it themselves.
Kmarion wrote:
Flaming_Maniac wrote:
But if I do pursue that path I won't be as happy as if I pursued your life path, right?
Nice try, it's your path to choose. "... individuals follow their own paths and react differently to things in life."
Kmarion wrote:
I actually made a conscious effort to change that behavior in my life. Yes, it will make you happier.
So it's my path to choose, but yours is better?
Kmarion wrote:
Flaming_Maniac wrote:
But as a whole, DAST is only controlled arguing, I don't see any action being taken. Nothing is wrong with just agreeing with someone or expanding on their ideas, but as a whole DAST is a news service and arguing for the sake of arguing. Not that I think there is anything wrong with that, obviously.
Despite popular belief disagreement is not a mandate for discussion here. Although it appears some people, like yourself, believe it is. There are topics where we have had a consensus.
But what is there to talk about when everyone agrees? I can't think of any actual debate threads that are completely one sided, only some news threads, and I highly doubt any of them are particularly interesting past the OP.
Really, what is the point when you truly agree with everyone else? You just sit around, patting each other on the back?
Kmarion wrote:
Flaming_Maniac wrote:
Oh pish posh, we all know you're above a minor clerical error.
Only one of us here pretends to be impervious to flaws... Diamond boy..lol
.
Edit:
Kmarion wrote:
PS: lol'ing @ all the guys here that are like: "oooh this is a debate" or "you don't see this side of Kmarion". I'm sitting here typing all these reply's with a smile on my face... Drama queens..lol
Agreed, this is fun, and in good humor. I know of a couple pairs of members who could take that to heart...
And well damn these posts are getting long, I'm going to start double posting.
I think this thread demonstrates that mod are
people too.
also negates my previously stated contention that sometimes mods hang their balls at the door ( in regards to stating opinions about issues ).
debate.
