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2008-02-19 10:16:25
Des.Kmal
Member
+917|6621|Atlanta, Georgia, USA
A young woman was about to finish her first year of college.
Like so many others her age, she considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat, and among other liberal ideals, was very much in favor of higher taxes to support more government programs; in other words, redistribution of wealth.

She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch Republican, a feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lecture that she had participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt that her father had for years harbored
an evil, selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his.

One day, she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher taxes on the rich, and the need for more government programs . The self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professor had to be the truth, and she indicated so to her father. He responded by asking how she was doing in school.

Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying, which left her no time to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn't even have time for a boyfriend, and didn't really have many college friends
either because she spent all her time studying.

Her father listened, then asked, 'How is your friend Audrey doing?'
She replied, 'Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy classes, she never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA. She is so popular on campus; college for her is a blast. She's always invited to all the parties, and lots of times she doesn't even show up for classes because she's too hung over.'

Her father asked her, 'Why don't you go to the Dean's office and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your
friend Audrey, who only has a 2.0? That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA, and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA.'


The daughter, visibly shocked by her father's suggestion, angrily fired back, 'That's a crazy idea! How would that be fair?
I've worked really hard for my grades! I've invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work. And she's done next to nothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail off!'


The father slowly smiled and said gently, 'Welcome to the Republican Party.'
what do you think?

original reply

Kmal wrote:

Team Zissou wrote:

Did you know that Norway, a socialist coutry, has one of the highest standards of living in the world. Free healthcare, free college education (even in another country), 0% government loans, and a very low poverty line. I like socialism and I'm ready to give up a share of my pie for it.
ew, im not. i work hard for my shit, if someone else wants something, then they can work THEIR damn ass off for it. thats what america is based on, working yourself to the top!!

but theres always some who just have bad luck, so SOME socialist ideals are needed... but not the whole thing....

not relying on the government ftw!

Last edited by Des.Kmal (2008-02-19 10:57:44)

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2008-02-19 10:20:41
lavadisk
I am a cat ¦ 3
+369|6832|Denver colorado
Oh, thats a good way to look at it. And I agree.
2008-02-19 10:23:11
{M5}Sniper3
Typical white person.
+389|6762|San Antonio, Texas
Yeah, we should take from those evil rich people...
2008-02-19 10:24:41
Des.Kmal
Member
+917|6621|Atlanta, Georgia, USA

{M5}Sniper3 wrote:

Yeah, we should take from those evil rich people...
yeah, just cuz theyre better than the people who fucked up their lives doesnt mean they should keep it! fuck em.

Last edited by Des.Kmal (2008-02-19 10:25:34)

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2008-02-19 10:26:13
SgtHeihn
Should have ducked
+394|6489|Ham Lake, MN (Fucking Cold)
Thats is like the cow story

A SOCIALIST: You have two cows. The government takes one and gives it to your neighbour. You form a cooperative to tell him how to manage his.

A DEMOCRAT: You have two cows. Your neighbour has none. You feel guilty for being successful. You vote people into office who tax your cows, forcing you to sell one to raise money to pay the tax. The people you voted for then take the tax money and buy a cow and give it to your neighbor. You feel righteous. Barbara Streisand sings for you.

A REPUBLICAN: You have two cows. Your neighbour has none. So?

A COMMUNIST: You have two cows. The government seizes both and provides you with milk. You wait in line for hours to get it. It is expensive and sour.

A FASCIST: You have two cows. The government seizes both and sells you the milk. You join the underground and start a campaign of sabotage, which ultimately blows up the cows.

CAPITALISM, AMERICAN STYLE: You have two cows. You sell one, buy a bull.

DEMOCRACY, AMERICAN STYLE: You have two cows. The government taxes you to the point you have to sell both to support a man in a foreign country who has only one cow, which was a gift from your government.

BUREAUCRACY, AMERICAN STYLE: You have two cows. The government takes them both, shoots one, milks the other, pays you for the milk, and then pours the milk down the drain.

AN AMERICAN CORPORATION: You have two cows. You sell one, lease it back to yourself and do an IPO on the 2nd one. You force the two cows to produce the milk of four cows. You are surprised when one cow drops dead. You spin an announcement to the analysts that you have reduced your expenses. Your stock goes up.

A FRENCH CORPORATION: You have two cows. You go on strike because you want three cows. You go to lunch. Life is good.

A JAPANESE CORPORATION: You have two cows. You redesign them so they are one-tenth the size of an ordinary cow and produce twenty times the milk. They learn to travel on unbelievably crowded trains. Most are at the top of their class at cow school.

A GERMAN CORPORATION: You have two cows. You re-engineer them so they are all blond, drink lots of beer, give excellent quality milk, and run a hundred miles an hour. Unfortunately they also demand 13 weeks of holidays a year.

AN ITALIAN CORPORATION: You have two cows but you don't know where they are. While ambling around, you see a beautiful woman. You break for lunch. She pays for it. You spend the afternoon making love. Life is good.

A RUSSIAN CORPORATION: You have two cows. You count them and learn you have five cows. You have some more vodka. You count them again and learn you have 42 cows. You count them again and learn you have 12 cows. You stop counting cows and open another bottle of vodka. You produce your 20th 5-year plan in the last three months. The Mafia shows up and takes over however many cows you really have.

A SWISS CORPORATION: You have 5000 cows, none of which belong to you. You charge for storing them for others. If they give milk, you tell no one.
2008-02-19 10:30:39
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6558

Des.Kmal wrote:

what do you think?
I think you just posted a really shit story that doesn't 'define' socialism well in any way, shape or form.

Not least for the fact that if it wasn't for socialism my parents would never have been able to send me to university where I attained a degree in engineering that repays the government/people of Ireland to the tune of tens of thousands of tax dollars a year through the job I was able to get with my degree.

Simplistic bollocks. Back to the drawing board Kmal.

lol at theory that socialists believe rich people are evil. Every wants to get rich, even socialists. Socialism is not meant to prohibit the accumulation of wealth - it just advocates being a little more 'society-minded'.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-02-19 10:37:26)

2008-02-19 10:43:49
FallenMorgan
Member
+53|5917|Glendale, CA
I believe in a moderate form of socialism, where the rich just get higher taxes but not so much that it's impossible to become any more wealthy than other people, just enough to eliminate multi-billionairs like Donald Trump.  I also think Corporations need to be limited.
2008-02-19 10:47:54
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6133|North Tonawanda, NY

FallenMorgan wrote:

I believe in a moderate form of socialism, where the rich just get higher taxes but not so much that it's impossible to become any more wealthy than other people, just enough to eliminate multi-billionairs like Donald Trump.  I also think Corporations need to be limited.
If someone works really hard to become a multi-billionaire, why shouldn't he be able to enjoy the fruits of his labor?
2008-02-19 10:49:37
Sydney
2λчиэλ
+783|6846|Reykjavík, Iceland.

SenorToenails wrote:

FallenMorgan wrote:

I believe in a moderate form of socialism, where the rich just get higher taxes but not so much that it's impossible to become any more wealthy than other people, just enough to eliminate multi-billionairs like Donald Trump.  I also think Corporations need to be limited.
If someone works really hard to become a multi-billionaire, why shouldn't he be able to enjoy the fruits of his labor?
He should.

Someone who fucks over the less wealthy people with his big evil corporation, or who has special "friends" shouldn't.
2008-02-19 10:51:10
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6522|Πάϊ
Like so many others her age, she considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat, and among other liberal ideals, was very much in favor of higher taxes to support more government programs; in other words, redistribution of wealth.
First off, according to my definition of a the term, a true "liberal" should be in favor of a fair redistribution of wealth, but that would probably not affect private property so much as that of corporations and governments.* And of course, said redistribution would by no means occur through government programs. The present system of government would first have to be obliterated by the people who themselves would afterwards proceed with it.

* What I mean here is that except for maybe a handful of people whose property is enormous, the rest would probably not be affected at all. So if you live in a big house in some rich suburb and own 5 cars it's not like anyone would come and take anything away. The redistribution of wealth at that level would be impossible and ineffective at the same time.

As for the example given above, it is a completely different case for a number of reasons. Mainly because both students started off on the same basis. Which of course, is certainly not the case in real life, where there are haves and have-nots. So as much as I hate to break it up for the supporters of the American Dream, not many rich men have made their fortunes fair and square, and certainly not many poor people are freeloading scum who have never made an effort in their lives.

Last edited by oug (2008-02-19 10:51:57)

ƒ³
2008-02-19 10:54:12
S.Lythberg
Mastermind
+429|6449|Chicago, IL

PBAsydney wrote:

SenorToenails wrote:

FallenMorgan wrote:

I believe in a moderate form of socialism, where the rich just get higher taxes but not so much that it's impossible to become any more wealthy than other people, just enough to eliminate multi-billionairs like Donald Trump.  I also think Corporations need to be limited.
If someone works really hard to become a multi-billionaire, why shouldn't he be able to enjoy the fruits of his labor?
He should.

Someone who fucks over the less wealthy people with his big evil corporation, or who has special "friends" shouldn't.
how do you tell the difference?

does trump having 20 billion mean he stole 20 billion?  or did he make 20 billion that wasn't there before?
2008-02-19 10:55:31
SgtHeihn
Should have ducked
+394|6489|Ham Lake, MN (Fucking Cold)
People jump on the band wagon with their friends. None of them really understand what being a liberal really is. They say they are in college because they don't have much to loose, but when the get their jobs and the nice cars and a house it all changes real quick. i.e. their support turns in to sporting a bumper sticker.

Don't bash on the rich because they have money, Trump went down to nothing a few times in his career, and he bounced back. Go make your own millions and then have someone try and take it from you and see how you feel!

Last edited by SgtHeihn (2008-02-19 10:59:26)

2008-02-19 10:55:53
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6133|North Tonawanda, NY

PBAsydney wrote:

He should.

Someone who fucks over the less wealthy people with his big evil corporation, or who has special "friends" shouldn't.
But who decides what a "big evil corporation" is or that his "special 'friends'" are bad?

I agree that people who become billionaires through an Enron-esque scandal are terrible, if that is what you meant.  (In that case it is clear who was evil)
2008-02-19 10:56:03
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6558

SenorToenails wrote:

FallenMorgan wrote:

I believe in a moderate form of socialism, where the rich just get higher taxes but not so much that it's impossible to become any more wealthy than other people, just enough to eliminate multi-billionairs like Donald Trump.  I also think Corporations need to be limited.
If someone works really hard to become a multi-billionaire, why shouldn't he be able to enjoy the fruits of his labor?
Who on earth is denying him the enjoyment of the fruits of his labor??? Someone paying several percent more tax on several billion still leaves the guy with more disposable income than you can shake a fucking stick at!
2008-02-19 10:56:57
Des.Kmal
Member
+917|6621|Atlanta, Georgia, USA

CameronPoe wrote:

Des.Kmal wrote:

what do you think?
I think you just posted a really shit story that doesn't 'define' socialism well in any way, shape or form.

Not least for the fact that if it wasn't for socialism my parents would never have been able to send me to university where I attained a degree in engineering that repays the government/people of Ireland to the tune of tens of thousands of tax dollars a year through the job I was able to get with my degree.

Simplistic bollocks. Back to the drawing board Kmal.

lol at theory that socialists believe rich people are evil. Every wants to get rich, even socialists. Socialism is not meant to prohibit the accumulation of wealth - it just advocates being a little more 'society-minded'.
you should probably settle the fuck down. that is the way socialism is. almost like communism lol.

i posted a reply to this where i originally found it.

actually, pay for your own damn university. thats what im doing. on my own choice. my stepdad is the richest person i know irl. but i said fuck him, hes a dick, and selfish, he offered to pay for it. but hey, im in AMERICA, I can do it if i want.

america and non socialist shit ftw.

Kmal wrote:

Team Zissou wrote:

Did you know that Norway, a socialist coutry, has one of the highest standards of living in the world. Free healthcare, free college education (even in another country), 0% government loans, and a very low poverty line. I like socialism and I'm ready to give up a share of my pie for it.
ew, im not. i work hard for my shit, if someone else wants something, then they can work THEIR damn ass off for it. thats what america is based on, working yourself to the top!!

but theres always some who just have bad luck, so SOME socialist ideals are needed... but not the whole thing....

not relying on the government ftw!
thats what i think about socialism. get your lazy ass to fucking work.

Last edited by Des.Kmal (2008-02-19 10:59:25)

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2008-02-19 10:59:35
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6493|Northern California
+1 for socialism!  End corporate greed and class separation!

Did she ask her dad if he's planning on holding on to his social security checks once they started coming?  or would he revolt and tear them up since he's so anti-socialist?

Last edited by IRONCHEF (2008-02-19 11:00:21)

2008-02-19 11:00:24
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6133|North Tonawanda, NY

CameronPoe wrote:

Who on earth is denying him the enjoyment of the fruits of his labor??? Someone paying several percent more tax on several billion still leaves the guy with more disposable income than you can shake a fucking stick at!
Uh-huh.  That's all well and good. But...

The idea proposed by FallenMorgan was a tax large enough to prevent multi-billionaires.  That is what I take exception to.
2008-02-19 11:01:43
Rosse_modest
Member
+76|6779|Antwerp, Flanders

SenorToenails wrote:

FallenMorgan wrote:

I believe in a moderate form of socialism, where the rich just get higher taxes but not so much that it's impossible to become any more wealthy than other people, just enough to eliminate multi-billionairs like Donald Trump.  I also think Corporations need to be limited.
If someone works really hard to become a multi-billionaire, why shouldn't he be able to enjoy the fruits of his labor?
Because there's a lot of people who work their ass off really hard and are still struggling financially. Working hard does not mean you're rich, and being rich doesn't automatically mean you worked hard. Keeping all that wealth for yourself would be perverse.
2008-02-19 11:01:43
Des.Kmal
Member
+917|6621|Atlanta, Georgia, USA

IRONCHEF wrote:

+1 for socialism!  End corporate greed and class separation!

Did she ask her dad if he's planning on holding on to his social security checks once they started coming?  or would he revolt and tear them up since he's so anti-socialist?
wow.

you missed the point. did u even read the passage?

Rosse_modest wrote:

SenorToenails wrote:

FallenMorgan wrote:

I believe in a moderate form of socialism, where the rich just get higher taxes but not so much that it's impossible to become any more wealthy than other people, just enough to eliminate multi-billionairs like Donald Trump.  I also think Corporations need to be limited.
If someone works really hard to become a multi-billionaire, why shouldn't he be able to enjoy the fruits of his labor?
Because there's a lot of people who work their ass off really hard and are still struggling financially. Working hard does not mean you're rich, and being rich doesn't automatically mean you worked hard. Keeping all that wealth for yourself would be perverse.
thats fucked up dude. he earned it. why shouldnt he keep it?

i mean really. if u made all that money, u wouldnt say that....

Last edited by Des.Kmal (2008-02-19 11:02:50)

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2008-02-19 11:03:56
Mitch
16 more years
+877|6528|South Florida

FallenMorgan wrote:

I believe in a moderate form of socialism, where the rich just get higher taxes but not so much that it's impossible to become any more wealthy than other people, just enough to eliminate multi-billionairs like Donald Trump.  I also think Corporations need to be limited.
Eliminate them??
What the fuck are you talking about?
They are rich because they worked hard. If you wanna be rich, you work hard to.
God damn i honestly cannot see how someone thinks its unfair that there are people richer then yourself!
15 more years! 15 more years!
2008-02-19 11:04:08
FallenMorgan
Member
+53|5917|Glendale, CA

PBAsydney wrote:

SenorToenails wrote:

FallenMorgan wrote:

I believe in a moderate form of socialism, where the rich just get higher taxes but not so much that it's impossible to become any more wealthy than other people, just enough to eliminate multi-billionairs like Donald Trump.  I also think Corporations need to be limited.
If someone works really hard to become a multi-billionaire, why shouldn't he be able to enjoy the fruits of his labor?
He should.

Someone who fucks over the less wealthy people with his big evil corporation, or who has special "friends" shouldn't.
Agreed, but yet it's unfair that some guy who works two jobs to support his/her family gets a musty apartment in a not-too-good neighborhood, while some guy who owns a big corporation just sits on his ass, gets fat, and gets laid by some female either a few decades younger or a few pounds lighter than him.  It irritates me when there's a big rift between the elite and the commoners, the Proletariate.

Mitch wrote:

FallenMorgan wrote:

I believe in a moderate form of socialism, where the rich just get higher taxes but not so much that it's impossible to become any more wealthy than other people, just enough to eliminate multi-billionairs like Donald Trump.  I also think Corporations need to be limited.
Eliminate them??
What the fuck are you talking about?
They are rich because they worked hard. If you wanna be rich, you work hard to.
God damn i honestly cannot see how someone thinks its unfair that there are people richer then yourself!
There's a difference between working hard and sitting on your ass while other people work hard to fill your pockets.

Last edited by FallenMorgan (2008-02-19 11:05:06)

2008-02-19 11:05:01
Sydney
2λчиэλ
+783|6846|Reykjavík, Iceland.

Des.Kmal wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Des.Kmal wrote:

what do you think?
I think you just posted a really shit story that doesn't 'define' socialism well in any way, shape or form.

Not least for the fact that if it wasn't for socialism my parents would never have been able to send me to university where I attained a degree in engineering that repays the government/people of Ireland to the tune of tens of thousands of tax dollars a year through the job I was able to get with my degree.

Simplistic bollocks. Back to the drawing board Kmal.

lol at theory that socialists believe rich people are evil. Every wants to get rich, even socialists. Socialism is not meant to prohibit the accumulation of wealth - it just advocates being a little more 'society-minded'.
you should probably settle the fuck down. that is the way socialism is. almost like communism lol.

i posted a reply to this where i originally found it.

actually, pay for your own damn university. thats what im doing. on my own choice. my stepdad is the richest person i know irl. but i said fuck him, hes a dick, and selfish, he offered to pay for it. but hey, im in AMERICA, I can do it if i want.

america and non socialist shit ftw.

Kmal wrote:

Team Zissou wrote:

Did you know that Norway, a socialist coutry, has one of the highest standards of living in the world. Free healthcare, free college education (even in another country), 0% government loans, and a very low poverty line. I like socialism and I'm ready to give up a share of my pie for it.
ew, im not. i work hard for my shit, if someone else wants something, then they can work THEIR damn ass off for it. thats what america is based on, working yourself to the top!!

but theres always some who just have bad luck, so SOME socialist ideals are needed... but not the whole thing....

not relying on the government ftw!
thats what i think about socialism. get your lazy ass to fucking work.
Iceland seems to have hit the sweet spot between left and right. We have free health care, free college etc. and there are still clever businessmen here who manage to stay so filthy rich that you want to slap them.

Seems like instead of evening everything out, you should just give the lower end some basic qualities and that's it, the higher end stays high with a tad higher tax.
2008-02-19 11:05:26
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6133|North Tonawanda, NY

Rosse_modest wrote:

Because there's a lot of people who work their ass off really hard and are still struggling financially. Working hard does not mean you're rich, and being rich doesn't automatically mean you worked hard. Keeping all that wealth for yourself would be perverse.
Yep.  That's pretty obvious.  If becoming rich were easy, then everyone would be. 

But...Don't most billionaires donate quite a bit of money anyway?
2008-02-19 11:05:32
SgtHeihn
Should have ducked
+394|6489|Ham Lake, MN (Fucking Cold)

Mitch wrote:

FallenMorgan wrote:

I believe in a moderate form of socialism, where the rich just get higher taxes but not so much that it's impossible to become any more wealthy than other people, just enough to eliminate multi-billionairs like Donald Trump.  I also think Corporations need to be limited.
Eliminate them??
What the fuck are you talking about?
They are rich because they worked hard. If you wanna be rich, you work hard to.
God damn i honestly cannot see how someone thinks its unfair that there are people richer then yourself!
The joys of being a teen and living off your parents, thats how.
2008-02-19 11:06:59
Des.Kmal
Member
+917|6621|Atlanta, Georgia, USA

FallenMorgan wrote:

PBAsydney wrote:

SenorToenails wrote:


If someone works really hard to become a multi-billionaire, why shouldn't he be able to enjoy the fruits of his labor?
He should.

Someone who fucks over the less wealthy people with his big evil corporation, or who has special "friends" shouldn't.
Agreed, but yet it's unfair that some guy who works two jobs to support his/her family gets a musty apartment in a not-too-good neighborhood, while some guy who owns a big corporation just sits on his ass, gets fat, and gets laid by some female either a few decades younger or a few pounds lighter than him.  It irritates me when there's a big rift between the elite and the commoners, the Proletariate.

Mitch wrote:

FallenMorgan wrote:

I believe in a moderate form of socialism, where the rich just get higher taxes but not so much that it's impossible to become any more wealthy than other people, just enough to eliminate multi-billionairs like Donald Trump.  I also think Corporations need to be limited.
Eliminate them??
What the fuck are you talking about?
They are rich because they worked hard. If you wanna be rich, you work hard to.
God damn i honestly cannot see how someone thinks its unfair that there are people richer then yourself!
There's a difference between working hard and sitting on your ass while other people work hard to fill your pockets.
so?!?! he shouldve worked smarter, not harder.
lol

just cuz they worked their ass in high school, got into a good college, and proceeded to make more money than they guy who dropped out in 10th grade and does contruction work does NOT mean that the rich guy should be penalized for being better at making money.... -.-
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