other religions have evolved... Islam hasn't...
Love is the answer
Poll
Which One Out of this Two Options Would be the Best?
| Option A | 38% | 38% - 28 | ||||
| Option B | 61% | 61% - 44 | ||||
| Total: 72 | ||||||
Such as Deuteronomy 7: "thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor show mercy unto them", " ye shall destroy their altars... ", etc...sergeriver wrote:
Read the Old Testament. All Religions have this BS.HITNRUNXX wrote:
While I respect most other religious, it is very hard to respect this:For them to respect us is impossible, as per their religion. Asking them to respect us, is asking them to destroy their religion.Qur'an 9:123 wrote:
O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty.
You can take the word Fight from the Qur'an in a non aggressive way (we are fighting on here, without killing) but smite, utterly destroy and 'nor show mercy' in the same sentence doesn't leave much room for interpretation!
If that quote from the Qur'an is as bad as it gets I'd say its only extremists looking for a reason to kill that will use that against us.
"B" is and has been in place since the beginning - you may be biased and only look for the information you want to fuel your own views but you don't seem to be shallow.sergeriver wrote:
Well, option A is kinda what we have now, then why can't we try B just for once?dayarath wrote:
True that's about it, so Serge, why this thread. There's not really a discussion to be had because everyone would wish for the fantastic sounding, but probably impossible B option, and if you vote A well...[TUF]Catbox wrote:
Choose B or B or you are an evil racist hatemonger...
> Israel was being shelled more aggressively everyday by Hezbollah - the Israeli Commanders managed the defensive operation poorly!
> 17 Sanctions by the U.N. against Iraq after they surrendered - they raped, pillaged, and plundered Kuwait without provocation.
> Muslin Extremest have been slaughtering innocent people for years w/o being aggressively challenged up until 9/11.
> Muslim extremest took over a country - their problem - until they started using it as a base of operations.
> The FUCKING PRESIDENT of Iran calls for a State and the whole of a people to be wiped off the face of the earth...
> Syria and Iran working jointly to destroy Israel, destabilize Iraq, take over Lebanon, build nuclear facilities, etc. by using Lebanese and Palestinians as their pawns - Same method Muslim Extremest leaders use to recruit suffering people to blow themselves up -
and these cowards deny it every day.
>etc.
- So the U.S. and most of all of the free world stood up for people and against the Muslim Extremest - so be it!
- So the U.S. does it's own dirty work under the public microscope - no cowards in this administration!
- So we do business openly with moderate Muslim Governments - any other choices or would you have us hate and not work with anyone!
- So we align with Israel - so should we ignore the only democratic and seemingly civil society in the Middle East!
- So it's all our fault - it's because we were doing business with ALL countries and we made their governments do business with us - next you'll say it's okay for China to attack us if the people decide they don't like the way they agreed to do business with us!
- So we have never advocated civil rights, or equal rights, or free speech, or freedom of press, or democracy, freely elected government's, or...!
- So we are wrong for trying to work with governments of all nations - everyone wants it both ways - we are not to interfere but we are to offer aid and support to the barbaric governments to win them over and at the same time if we defend ourselves and others while trying to help then we are wrong!
- So we are to wish all the bad things away and not face reality - suck some oxygen!
Team America, FUCK YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
Quoting OLD testament is just that... OLD. A lot of it has changed as of the New Testament. Islam has not.KylieTastic wrote:
Such as Deuteronomy 7: "thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor show mercy unto them", " ye shall destroy their altars... ", etc...sergeriver wrote:
Read the Old Testament. All Religions have this BS.HITNRUNXX wrote:
While I respect most other religious, it is very hard to respect this:
For them to respect us is impossible, as per their religion. Asking them to respect us, is asking them to destroy their religion.
You can take the word Fight from the Qur'an in a non aggressive way (we are fighting on here, without killing) but smite, utterly destroy and 'nor show mercy' in the same sentence doesn't leave much room for interpretation!
If that quote from the Qur'an is as bad as it gets I'd say its only extremists looking for a reason to kill that will use that against us.
And no it isn't as bad as it gets, it was just the first example I knew of...
So as I said... They have to CHANGE their religion, or they have to resist any sort of mutual respect clause you expect to create.Qur'an 8:60 wrote:
Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of Allah and your enemies and others besides, whom ye may not know
Option "C"
Whenever members of a religious group perpatrate an act of terror, unless the community as a whole condemns the attack, we bomb one of your religious shrines.
Christian extremists bomb a crowded theater? If the Christian community at large doesn't condemn their actions, we take out Jerusalem.
Jewish extremists bomb a mosque? If the Jews don't rise against their nutters, say goodbye to the wailing wall and temple mount.
Muslim extremists blow up a subway tunnel? If I see so much as one street video of thanks and celebration, Mr. Mecca gets to meet Mr. Carpet Bombs from Mr. B-52.
Until we get rid of the glamour, there will be no end.
Whenever members of a religious group perpatrate an act of terror, unless the community as a whole condemns the attack, we bomb one of your religious shrines.
Christian extremists bomb a crowded theater? If the Christian community at large doesn't condemn their actions, we take out Jerusalem.
Jewish extremists bomb a mosque? If the Jews don't rise against their nutters, say goodbye to the wailing wall and temple mount.
Muslim extremists blow up a subway tunnel? If I see so much as one street video of thanks and celebration, Mr. Mecca gets to meet Mr. Carpet Bombs from Mr. B-52.
Until we get rid of the glamour, there will be no end.
Muslim extremists.AAFCptKabbom wrote:
"B" is and has been in place since the beginning - you may be biased and only look for the information you want to fuel your own views but you don't seem to be shallow.sergeriver wrote:
Well, option A is kinda what we have now, then why can't we try B just for once?dayarath wrote:
True that's about it, so Serge, why this thread. There's not really a discussion to be had because everyone would wish for the fantastic sounding, but probably impossible B option, and if you vote A well...
> Israel was being shelled more aggressively everyday by Hezbollah - the Israeli Commanders managed the defensive operation poorly!
> 17 Sanctions by the U.N. against Iraq after they surrendered - they raped, pillaged, and plundered Kuwait without provocation.
> Muslin Extremest have been slaughtering innocent people for years w/o being aggressively challenged up until 9/11.
> Muslim extremest took over a country - their problem - until they started using it as a base of operations.
> The FUCKING PRESIDENT of Iran calls for a State and the whole of a people to be wiped off the face of the earth...
> Syria and Iran working jointly to destroy Israel, destabilize Iraq, take over Lebanon, build nuclear facilities, etc. by using Lebanese and Palestinians as their pawns - Same method Muslim Extremest leaders use to recruit suffering people to blow themselves up -
and these cowards deny it every day.
>etc.
- So the U.S. and most of all of the free world stood up for people and against the Muslim Extremest - so be it!
- So the U.S. does it's own dirty work under the public microscope - no cowards in this administration!
- So we do business openly with moderate Muslim Governments - any other choices or would you have us hate and not work with anyone!
- So we align with Israel - so should we ignore the only democratic and seemingly civil society in the Middle East!
- So it's all our fault - it's because we were doing business with ALL countries and we made their governments do business with us - next you'll say it's okay for China to attack us if the people decide they don't like the way they agreed to do business with us!
- So we have never advocated civil rights, or equal rights, or free speech, or freedom of press, or democracy, freely elected government's, or...!
- So we are wrong for trying to work with governments of all nations - everyone wants it both ways - we are not to interfere but we are to offer aid and support to the barbaric governments to win them over and at the same time if we defend ourselves and others while trying to help then we are wrong!
- So we are to wish all the bad things away and not face reality - suck some oxygen!
Team America, FUCK YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
That's pretty weak Sergesergeriver wrote:
Muslim extremists.AAFCptKabbom wrote:
"B" is and has been in place since the beginning - you may be biased and only look for the information you want to fuel your own views but you don't seem to be shallow.sergeriver wrote:
Well, option A is kinda what we have now, then why can't we try B just for once?
> Israel was being shelled more aggressively everyday by Hezbollah - the Israeli Commanders managed the defensive operation poorly!
> 17 Sanctions by the U.N. against Iraq after they surrendered - they raped, pillaged, and plundered Kuwait without provocation.
> Muslin Extremest have been slaughtering innocent people for years w/o being aggressively challenged up until 9/11.
> Muslim extremest took over a country - their problem - until they started using it as a base of operations.
> The FUCKING PRESIDENT of Iran calls for a State and the whole of a people to be wiped off the face of the earth...
> Syria and Iran working jointly to destroy Israel, destabilize Iraq, take over Lebanon, build nuclear facilities, etc. by using Lebanese and Palestinians as their pawns - Same method Muslim Extremest leaders use to recruit suffering people to blow themselves up -
and these cowards deny it every day.
>etc.
- So the U.S. and most of all of the free world stood up for people and against the Muslim Extremest - so be it!
- So the U.S. does it's own dirty work under the public microscope - no cowards in this administration!
- So we do business openly with moderate Muslim Governments - any other choices or would you have us hate and not work with anyone!
- So we align with Israel - so should we ignore the only democratic and seemingly civil society in the Middle East!
- So it's all our fault - it's because we were doing business with ALL countries and we made their governments do business with us - next you'll say it's okay for China to attack us if the people decide they don't like the way they agreed to do business with us!
- So we have never advocated civil rights, or equal rights, or free speech, or freedom of press, or democracy, freely elected government's, or...!
- So we are wrong for trying to work with governments of all nations - everyone wants it both ways - we are not to interfere but we are to offer aid and support to the barbaric governments to win them over and at the same time if we defend ourselves and others while trying to help then we are wrong!
- So we are to wish all the bad things away and not face reality - suck some oxygen!
Team America, FUCK YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
Duh - Option BFEOS wrote:
Is there an unbiased, realistic option?
Fuck Israel
> 17 Sanctions by the U.N. against Iraq after they surrendered - they raped, pillaged, and plundered Kuwait without provocation.
You need to read a history book - Iraq was provoked, they cleared the invasion with the US beforehand, big deal
> Muslin Extremest have been slaughtering innocent people for years w/o being aggressively challenged up until 9/11.
Could you tell us how many civilians died in Vietnam under napalm and 'free fire zones'?
> The FUCKING PRESIDENT of Iran calls for a State and the whole of a people to be wiped off the face of the earth...
He never said that about the people, he said it about the state of Israel
The FUCKING PRESIDENT of the US gets his instructions direct from 'god' and decribes Iran as part of the 'axis of evil' even after the help Iran gave the US in going after Al Qaeda. So there.
> Syria and Iran working jointly to destroy Israel, destabilize Iraq, take over Lebanon, build nuclear facilities, etc. by using Lebanese and Palestinians as their pawns - Same method Muslim Extremest leaders use to recruit suffering people to blow themselves up -
and these cowards deny it every day.
The US was/is using Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Egypt as their pawns to destroy Iran and take over the middle east.
- So we do business openly with moderate Muslim Governments !
Do you mean Saudi Arabia and Pakistan? You are joking about the moderate bit right?
- So we align with Israel - so should we ignore the only democratic and seemingly civil society in the Middle East!
Israel was founded on terrorism and is barely democratic. Israel is just a tool used by the US to stir up extremism in the ME every now and then.
- So we have never advocated civil rights, or equal rights, or free speech, or freedom of press, or democracy, freely elected government's, or...!
Its only since the '60s US citizens had equal rights, was the Bush regime 'freely elected'? Barely.
You need to read a history book - Iraq was provoked, they cleared the invasion with the US beforehand, big deal
> Muslin Extremest have been slaughtering innocent people for years w/o being aggressively challenged up until 9/11.
Could you tell us how many civilians died in Vietnam under napalm and 'free fire zones'?
> The FUCKING PRESIDENT of Iran calls for a State and the whole of a people to be wiped off the face of the earth...
He never said that about the people, he said it about the state of Israel
The FUCKING PRESIDENT of the US gets his instructions direct from 'god' and decribes Iran as part of the 'axis of evil' even after the help Iran gave the US in going after Al Qaeda. So there.
> Syria and Iran working jointly to destroy Israel, destabilize Iraq, take over Lebanon, build nuclear facilities, etc. by using Lebanese and Palestinians as their pawns - Same method Muslim Extremest leaders use to recruit suffering people to blow themselves up -
and these cowards deny it every day.
The US was/is using Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Egypt as their pawns to destroy Iran and take over the middle east.
- So we do business openly with moderate Muslim Governments !
Do you mean Saudi Arabia and Pakistan? You are joking about the moderate bit right?
- So we align with Israel - so should we ignore the only democratic and seemingly civil society in the Middle East!
Israel was founded on terrorism and is barely democratic. Israel is just a tool used by the US to stir up extremism in the ME every now and then.
- So we have never advocated civil rights, or equal rights, or free speech, or freedom of press, or democracy, freely elected government's, or...!
Its only since the '60s US citizens had equal rights, was the Bush regime 'freely elected'? Barely.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2008-02-18 00:53:24)
Fuck Israel
Your post is very well written but it would make sense if all Muslims were extremists, and that's not the case. We must respect the moderate ones, which are the majority of them. We should encourage them to talk against those fuckers. I bet any of us would be afraid of talking against them, they are nutjobs dude. That's the whole thing. Don't punish the innocent for the actions of deluded assholes.AAFCptKabbom wrote:
That's pretty weak Sergesergeriver wrote:
Muslim extremists.AAFCptKabbom wrote:
"B" is and has been in place since the beginning - you may be biased and only look for the information you want to fuel your own views but you don't seem to be shallow.
> Israel was being shelled more aggressively everyday by Hezbollah - the Israeli Commanders managed the defensive operation poorly!
> 17 Sanctions by the U.N. against Iraq after they surrendered - they raped, pillaged, and plundered Kuwait without provocation.
> Muslin Extremest have been slaughtering innocent people for years w/o being aggressively challenged up until 9/11.
> Muslim extremest took over a country - their problem - until they started using it as a base of operations.
> The FUCKING PRESIDENT of Iran calls for a State and the whole of a people to be wiped off the face of the earth...
> Syria and Iran working jointly to destroy Israel, destabilize Iraq, take over Lebanon, build nuclear facilities, etc. by using Lebanese and Palestinians as their pawns - Same method Muslim Extremest leaders use to recruit suffering people to blow themselves up -
and these cowards deny it every day.
>etc.
- So the U.S. and most of all of the free world stood up for people and against the Muslim Extremest - so be it!
- So the U.S. does it's own dirty work under the public microscope - no cowards in this administration!
- So we do business openly with moderate Muslim Governments - any other choices or would you have us hate and not work with anyone!
- So we align with Israel - so should we ignore the only democratic and seemingly civil society in the Middle East!
- So it's all our fault - it's because we were doing business with ALL countries and we made their governments do business with us - next you'll say it's okay for China to attack us if the people decide they don't like the way they agreed to do business with us!
- So we have never advocated civil rights, or equal rights, or free speech, or freedom of press, or democracy, freely elected government's, or...!
- So we are wrong for trying to work with governments of all nations - everyone wants it both ways - we are not to interfere but we are to offer aid and support to the barbaric governments to win them over and at the same time if we defend ourselves and others while trying to help then we are wrong!
- So we are to wish all the bad things away and not face reality - suck some oxygen!
Team America, FUCK YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
Last edited by sergeriver (2008-02-18 02:14:07)
I don't think you'd find it hard getting a similar verse in the bible.HITNRUNXX wrote:
While I respect most other religious, it is very hard to respect this:For them to respect us is impossible, as per their religion. Asking them to respect us, is asking them to destroy their religion.Qur'an 9:123 wrote:
O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty.
I find this quote amusing:
OK... so you fear shariah law like it is the ultimate incarnate of evil in all its forms, but you call one of the the few states enforcing it to its strictest degree 'moderate'?moderate Muslim Governments
Think before you post tbh.
Overactive imagination. Where did he say that?So it's all our fault
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
It's easy to make the argument that Islam is essentially the same as the Hebrew and "Jews for Jesus faith" which evolved into Christianity. At a casual glance, they all seem pretty similar. Scrutinizing more closely and critically Islam is a very strict, very warlike religion. Granted that the history of Christianity is a violent one as well, the history of the world is violent, so that blame should be reserved for the failings of human beings and not on a religion unless it perpetrates violence.
One of my favorite quotes comes from Muhaummed, the founder of Islam himself; when asked about booty, he said that the spoils of war are gifts from God. Granted, Pope Urban II gave similar messages, but the main issue those who are keen to point this out fail to take into account that Pope Urban II was more of a politician than a holy man and regardless, he was not the founding man of Christianity.
Similarly, Muslims believe in representatives from Muhaumed/Allah called Caliphs--these Caliphs are essentially the Eastern equivalent of Kings in the medieval period. The problem was, while the West was developing a representative and liberal form of government, the Caliphs were seen by Muslims as the ideal form of government--a government that controlled the people under religious pretexts. So while the West was becoming more free thinking and undergoing an industrial revolution, Islam stagnated the East--with each religion there are cultural undertones and consequently, Islam has been associated with being a repressive form of doctrine that extends beyond religious subscription.
Islam is also different in the sense that its form of religion, while Monotheistic is a different sort. Allah is not God, and this can be demonstrated in the word Islam. Islam itself means "those who Submit [to God]" suggesting a rather submissive mentality that many scholars agree aided Muhuammed and his successors in their holy wars against Byzantium and the Kingdoms of Outremer. While Allah theologically speaking is the same as Christian and Hebrew faiths, the way he has been approached is rather different. In Hebrew Israel, around 800B.C., Israelites addressed their God as "abba" literally translated as "Daddy." This simplistic and very familiar tone of voice suggests a caring individual, whereas the Muslim etymology of Allah means "sole" + "God" a very formal designation (and a reminder to the newly converted and former pagan Arabs there was only one God). Due to many Latin translation errors, this familiarity was lost with the Catholic Church, until Martin Luther translated Latin into the vernacular, sparking off the Northern Renaissance (and some would argue the Italian with the counter reformation).
There is also the fact that Hebrews and Christians recognize there being a "God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit," the only difference being who the "Son" is and when he'll come/come again. Muslims do not recognize the three in One entity, and weather you believe in any of the faiths, Islam is hardly comparable to the Western faiths besides being a Monotheistic one.
And I didn't vote in the poll because I find the OP's polls so incredibly slanted and bigoted, I wonder how anyone can actually take them seriously when the whole thing is composed of liberal bigotry, courtesy of the shit fountain.
So here's my poll option: Everybody educate themselves on Islam, Christianity, and Judaism, and not listen to Al Jazeera or people wanting to show off their secular piety. This education will help us further understand differences in the religions and help make the world a safer, free, more liberal place.
One of my favorite quotes comes from Muhaummed, the founder of Islam himself; when asked about booty, he said that the spoils of war are gifts from God. Granted, Pope Urban II gave similar messages, but the main issue those who are keen to point this out fail to take into account that Pope Urban II was more of a politician than a holy man and regardless, he was not the founding man of Christianity.
Similarly, Muslims believe in representatives from Muhaumed/Allah called Caliphs--these Caliphs are essentially the Eastern equivalent of Kings in the medieval period. The problem was, while the West was developing a representative and liberal form of government, the Caliphs were seen by Muslims as the ideal form of government--a government that controlled the people under religious pretexts. So while the West was becoming more free thinking and undergoing an industrial revolution, Islam stagnated the East--with each religion there are cultural undertones and consequently, Islam has been associated with being a repressive form of doctrine that extends beyond religious subscription.
Islam is also different in the sense that its form of religion, while Monotheistic is a different sort. Allah is not God, and this can be demonstrated in the word Islam. Islam itself means "those who Submit [to God]" suggesting a rather submissive mentality that many scholars agree aided Muhuammed and his successors in their holy wars against Byzantium and the Kingdoms of Outremer. While Allah theologically speaking is the same as Christian and Hebrew faiths, the way he has been approached is rather different. In Hebrew Israel, around 800B.C., Israelites addressed their God as "abba" literally translated as "Daddy." This simplistic and very familiar tone of voice suggests a caring individual, whereas the Muslim etymology of Allah means "sole" + "God" a very formal designation (and a reminder to the newly converted and former pagan Arabs there was only one God). Due to many Latin translation errors, this familiarity was lost with the Catholic Church, until Martin Luther translated Latin into the vernacular, sparking off the Northern Renaissance (and some would argue the Italian with the counter reformation).
There is also the fact that Hebrews and Christians recognize there being a "God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit," the only difference being who the "Son" is and when he'll come/come again. Muslims do not recognize the three in One entity, and weather you believe in any of the faiths, Islam is hardly comparable to the Western faiths besides being a Monotheistic one.
And I didn't vote in the poll because I find the OP's polls so incredibly slanted and bigoted, I wonder how anyone can actually take them seriously when the whole thing is composed of liberal bigotry, courtesy of the shit fountain.
So here's my poll option: Everybody educate themselves on Islam, Christianity, and Judaism, and not listen to Al Jazeera or people wanting to show off their secular piety. This education will help us further understand differences in the religions and help make the world a safer, free, more liberal place.
Last edited by The_Mac (2008-02-18 14:05:24)
Why even maintain the illusion that B would ever work? There are too many people on both sides who're perfectly fine with killing eachother for whatever reason, as illustrated by a good few disturbed members of this forum.
The rampant xenophobia and pointless hatred displayed by humanity have kept cultures from being at peace for millenia. I don't think anyone here can take a look at civilisation today and honestly say that we as a race have transcended the irrational nature of past generations.
The rampant xenophobia and pointless hatred displayed by humanity have kept cultures from being at peace for millenia. I don't think anyone here can take a look at civilisation today and honestly say that we as a race have transcended the irrational nature of past generations.
fuck religion. Its the reason for just about every major conflict. Im perfectly happy using my sunday's to sleep in and maybe slam my wife. I love how on my dog tags it says "no prefrence" for religion. Just bury me in a trash bag. dont givr a fucK.
It's just like those jelly fish in Japan that they have problems with...killing them just created millions more, I saw it on the National Geographic channel. I chose B. If we show the extremists brutality that will only prove their point perhaps.