Pages: 1

 

2007-12-13 14:57:53
deeznutz1245
Connecticut: our chimps are stealin yo' faces.
+483|6713|Connecticut
Let me explain a little bit about my job before I go into my rant. I work for a firm as an asset protection executive in Hartford Ct. I write policies for corporations pertaining to financial fraud and I investigate it as well. Most retail companies have loss prevention execs that do their own investigations in house, my firm gets hired to protect financial institutions due to in house law suits etc. It is cheaper for them to hire us than to employ their own because most people know that payrolled investigators are an expense off their bottom line.

           With that being said there has been a case I have been working on for several weeks now. Starting yesterday I began to sit with these employees and interview (corporate way of saying interrogate) them. I will not go into detail about exactly what they did because I can't. What I will do is tell you what you already know. There are people out there that are exploiting the system to the fullest degree. Over the years I have run into single mothers who receive WIC, fuel assistance, and other state bennies while only paying $12 a month to live in their home. All the while they work under the table and collect welfare while their boyfriend lives with her and works full time under a false address. How about claiming other peoples kids on their taxes. I've read reports of some of the retail companies we have accounts with where a man is collecting and he gets busted stealing 42" TV's that he sells and while in custody the police seize heroin that he deals on the side as well.

           I honestly don't know whose fault this is. There are so many to blame. Is it the left and all of their social programs? Well, I dont know. These programs really are needed by some. Maybe they should do a better job screening and following up. Is it our fault for putting up with this shit for so long? I mean, if you turn someone in you are labeled as a biggot or something else that is negative. These state assisted programs are intended for those who truly need it due to long term ailments or for those who need it for a short time until they get on their feet. Why  are there people receiving this for generations. Im sick and fucking tired of paying my taxes, my mortgage in full, my health insurance and having to pay for theirs too while they drive a nicer car than me or my wife. And keep their fucking kids the hell out of my towns school system. Turn that bus right around, pick up the parents and bring them job hunting so they can afford to live in my town without my help.

         What, if anything can be done. I am yet to hear a politician with a plan, or one to excute it for that matter. Your opinions please.
Malloy must go
2007-12-13 15:10:23
stryyker
bad touch
+1,682|6940|California

I get what you do, and how it frustrates you, but some of the worst things in our Nation are nothing more than loopholes in the system.

Fixing one problem leads to 3 others
2007-12-13 15:14:21
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6625|North Carolina
Generally speaking, if we transitioned all social programs to the state level and away from the federal level, I think you'd find the problems much easier to address.

Other than that, it's hard to say what the solution is.  This seems like one of those case-by-case things.
2007-12-13 15:33:51
deeznutz1245
Connecticut: our chimps are stealin yo' faces.
+483|6713|Connecticut
There has to be someting that can be done. Enough of getting bit by the hands we feed.
Malloy must go
2007-12-14 14:34:33
deeznutz1245
Connecticut: our chimps are stealin yo' faces.
+483|6713|Connecticut

Turquoise wrote:

Generally speaking, if we transitioned all social programs to the state level and away from the federal level, I think you'd find the problems much easier to address.

Other than that, it's hard to say what the solution is.  This seems like one of those case-by-case things.
Most programs are from the state though.
Malloy must go
2007-12-14 14:44:01
basetballjones
Member
+30|6968

Turquoise wrote:

Generally speaking, if we transitioned all social programs to the state level and away from the federal level, I think you'd find the problems much easier to address.

Other than that, it's hard to say what the solution is.  This seems like one of those case-by-case things.
Hit the nail on the head- Almost all of our social and civil benefits issues can be traced to the lack of each state's ability to regulate them.
The Fed takes a broad look at all states and applies a blanket law or amendment that covers all of them- in our form of Fed>State>Local government, this is pretty apparently flawed thinking.

The programs we have in America are not necessarily broken, and many of them are truly beneficial to people who really need a hand sometime in life- but that's all it was ever intended to be- a little help to get you back on your feet.  Sadly most use it as a type of career- seriously!  It takes a serious load of effort to scam our social programs- if they worked that hard at a job, they would be more successful.

In the end, though- and as it was intended in our beginnings as a country- each state should have the power to utilize these programs in the most efficient manner for their own state- not the "many states/ one plan" systems that we are using now.
2007-12-14 14:45:49
basetballjones
Member
+30|6968

deeznutz1245 wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Generally speaking, if we transitioned all social programs to the state level and away from the federal level, I think you'd find the problems much easier to address.

Other than that, it's hard to say what the solution is.  This seems like one of those case-by-case things.
Most programs are from the state though.
Sorry to double post...

The biggest programs that are scammed are Fed.. And even though you are correct in the fact that many programs are provided by the state, they are subsidized or funded federally, which means the Fed regulates them.
2007-12-14 15:36:40
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6625|North Carolina
Baset's right on everything except one minor detail.  Most beneficiaries don't use these programs for as long as you'd think.  Still, it doesn't change the fact that a significant portion of them do.

The general idea is that it's easier for each state to regulate social programs to minimize abuse than it is for the federal government to keep up with the whole country's system.
2007-12-14 15:49:24
mikeyb118
Evil Overlord
+76|6818|S.C.
I think we can all agree that social welfare systems should be there for those that need them. It is broken logic to suggest the removal of a welfare system due to the subject of it's abuse. In general terms a better solution is to change the system so that it is abused less. It's a matter of fixing the bucket upwards.
2007-12-14 16:09:03
PureFodder
Member
+225|6505
Is the purpose of cracking down on people potentialy scamming social programs simply in order to save money or due to a higher moral reason?

Rich people doing dodgy things with their taxes is a massively bigger drain on government money than welfare scams. Claiming a holiday or home computer is a business purchase and therefore tax deductable is the sort of thing that people do all the time, yet we seem quite happy with that type of scam.

We'll bitterly criticice a poor person for scamming a few thousand out of the government, but applaud a clever entrepeneur for dodging half a million in tax liability.
2007-12-14 18:29:52
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6625|North Carolina
Pure, you make a very good point with this.

Corporate welfare costs us way more than regular welfare.  We need to end corporate welfare completely.
2007-12-15 21:46:06
Protecus
Prophet of Certain Certainties
+28|6742

PureFodder wrote:

Is the purpose of cracking down on people potentialy scamming social programs simply in order to save money or due to a higher moral reason?

Rich people doing dodgy things with their taxes is a massively bigger drain on government money than welfare scams. Claiming a holiday or home computer is a business purchase and therefore tax deductable is the sort of thing that people do all the time, yet we seem quite happy with that type of scam.

We'll bitterly criticice a poor person for scamming a few thousand out of the government, but applaud a clever entrepeneur for dodging half a million in tax liability.
I always thought it was not just illogical, but actually anti-logical that multibillion dollar companies received tax breaks and even subsidies from the government. And its not just the downtown, high rise, beemer driving corporate companies that raking in disgustingly large amounts of money yet turn around with open hands.

Just recently, the annual throw-stupid-large-amounts-of-money-at-anybody bill (aka the Farm Bill) was clusterfucked through congress. At $286 billion, its one of the largest bills yet, which is something considering this is historically one of the most bloated bills passed every year. Whats even better is that the subsidies are going out to farmers that are pulling in six figure incomes. They are making at least $100,000 a year, yet get a nice check from the government every year to boost their business.

And I can't even get a scholarship...
2007-12-15 21:53:57
deeznutz1245
Connecticut: our chimps are stealin yo' faces.
+483|6713|Connecticut

PureFodder wrote:

Is the purpose of cracking down on people potentialy scamming social programs simply in order to save money or due to a higher moral reason?

Rich people doing dodgy things with their taxes is a massively bigger drain on government money than welfare scams. Claiming a holiday or home computer is a business purchase and therefore tax deductable is the sort of thing that people do all the time, yet we seem quite happy with that type of scam.

We'll bitterly criticice a poor person for scamming a few thousand out of the government, but applaud a clever entrepeneur for dodging half a million in tax liability.
Thats a very good point. Either way it's the middle class that is gettig squeezed pretty hard. I think with the rich folk it effects us less directly.  The rich guy wont rob my house or mug me. The rich guy wont sell drugs in my neighborhood because he doesnt have to work. I see your angle and you are correct, the corrupt rich screw us in many other ways that are fiscally devestating, but the hoodlum makes it harder for me to swallow becuase he is constantly on every corner reminding me of how I support him.

Last edited by deeznutz1245 (2007-12-15 21:54:34)

Malloy must go
2007-12-15 21:57:45
deeznutz1245
Connecticut: our chimps are stealin yo' faces.
+483|6713|Connecticut

PureFodder wrote:

We'll bitterly criticice a poor person for scamming a few thousand out of the government...........
Retail theft in FY 2008 was 28 billion dollars. 19 billion of which was attributed towards unemployed individuals who profited from theft.
Malloy must go
2007-12-16 05:57:28
PureFodder
Member
+225|6505

deeznutz1245 wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

We'll bitterly criticice a poor person for scamming a few thousand out of the government...........
Retail theft in FY 2008 was 28 billion dollars. 19 billion of which was attributed towards unemployed individuals who profited from theft.
2001, the amount in tax money not collected (ie. not even including the amount pushed through clever loopholes etc. just plain tax evasion) $340 billion.

2007 - money sent by primarily by rich Americans to tax havens (this figure is slightly inflated by drug dealers doing it too) $800 billion, resulting in an estimated $70 billion in evaded taxes.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h … A9679C8B63

2005 - real estate investment scams by rich people. $20 billion in lost tax income.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/07/business/07taxes.html

2001 - Corporations misrepresenting incomes - $30 billion in lost taxes.
"An indirect evidence for growing sophisticated evasion is provided by the fact that ”America’s largest and most profitable companies paid less in corporate income taxes in last three years, even as they increased profis”, as Browning (2004) states."
http://mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/4223/1/M … r_4223.pdf

If you want to increase te amount of government funds by cracking down on cheaters, go investigaete some rich folk.
2007-12-16 07:24:01
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6864

deeznutz1245 wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

We'll bitterly criticice a poor person for scamming a few thousand out of the government...........
Retail theft in FY 2008 was 28 billion dollars. 19 billion of which was attributed towards unemployed individuals who profited from theft.
2008?
2007-12-16 07:50:44
deeznutz1245
Connecticut: our chimps are stealin yo' faces.
+483|6713|Connecticut

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

deeznutz1245 wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

We'll bitterly criticice a poor person for scamming a few thousand out of the government...........
Retail theft in FY 2008 was 28 billion dollars. 19 billion of which was attributed towards unemployed individuals who profited from theft.
2008?
In retail the fiscal year ends Feb 1. In a month an a half they will be in FY 09.

All based around Christmas for them, they usually inventory right after the holiday rush when it is slow. Reason being, retail has to preposition 6 months in advance hence the advanced calender.

Last edited by deeznutz1245 (2007-12-16 07:52:45)

Malloy must go
2007-12-16 07:59:14
Sgt.Gene
...
+215|6984
I see this shit all the time. Daytona Beach is full of crackheads. I always get asked, when im at publix or winn dixie, if I will buy food stamps in return for money, lol. The other day I was at Food Lion, this guy walked up to me, he didnt look too poor, but didnt look to wealth either, wanted me to trade 20 dollars for 20 food stamps, I refused. When I was walking outside, the motherfucker was getting into a BMW. lolz
2007-12-16 09:52:55
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6625|North Carolina

Protecus wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

Is the purpose of cracking down on people potentialy scamming social programs simply in order to save money or due to a higher moral reason?

Rich people doing dodgy things with their taxes is a massively bigger drain on government money than welfare scams. Claiming a holiday or home computer is a business purchase and therefore tax deductable is the sort of thing that people do all the time, yet we seem quite happy with that type of scam.

We'll bitterly criticice a poor person for scamming a few thousand out of the government, but applaud a clever entrepeneur for dodging half a million in tax liability.
I always thought it was not just illogical, but actually anti-logical that multibillion dollar companies received tax breaks and even subsidies from the government. And its not just the downtown, high rise, beemer driving corporate companies that raking in disgustingly large amounts of money yet turn around with open hands.

Just recently, the annual throw-stupid-large-amounts-of-money-at-anybody bill (aka the Farm Bill) was clusterfucked through congress. At $286 billion, its one of the largest bills yet, which is something considering this is historically one of the most bloated bills passed every year. Whats even better is that the subsidies are going out to farmers that are pulling in six figure incomes. They are making at least $100,000 a year, yet get a nice check from the government every year to boost their business.

And I can't even get a scholarship...
The fact that both parties support this shit is the reason why I'm mostly Libertarian.  Ron Paul is one of the few presidential candidates who has vowed to end this kind of political pork.
2007-12-16 09:54:44
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6625|North Carolina

deeznutz1245 wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

Is the purpose of cracking down on people potentialy scamming social programs simply in order to save money or due to a higher moral reason?

Rich people doing dodgy things with their taxes is a massively bigger drain on government money than welfare scams. Claiming a holiday or home computer is a business purchase and therefore tax deductable is the sort of thing that people do all the time, yet we seem quite happy with that type of scam.

We'll bitterly criticice a poor person for scamming a few thousand out of the government, but applaud a clever entrepeneur for dodging half a million in tax liability.
Thats a very good point. Either way it's the middle class that is gettig squeezed pretty hard. I think with the rich folk it effects us less directly.  The rich guy wont rob my house or mug me. The rich guy wont sell drugs in my neighborhood because he doesnt have to work. I see your angle and you are correct, the corrupt rich screw us in many other ways that are fiscally devestating, but the hoodlum makes it harder for me to swallow becuase he is constantly on every corner reminding me of how I support him.
Generally speaking, the poor are more likely to rob you or hurt you if they are not getting the proper social programs.  So no, corporate welfare is a much more detrimental influence on our society than social programs.

Still, I think we can agree that minimizing the federal government is a good thing.

 

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