BF2S Forums Should the police carry firearms?

Dragonclaw wrote:

Youre kidding right? They dont carry firearms? Thats pathetic. If someone pulls a gun on them theyre helpless. If they see someone shooting they cant do shit about it. What kind of shit government doesnt let the cops carry guns?

You miss the point, because firearms are illegal in the first place in the UK we seldom hear about officers getting gunned down, obviously sometimes it is going to happen as in the case of Sharon Beshenivsky.

As someone stated though, we have SO19, which is deployed in a situation where armed officers are actually needed.

It is our so-called shit government's policy on gun control that has us sitting happily at the bottom end of this list, and you guys at the top.

Maybe you need to take a look at yourself before calling another government shit.

Last edited by KILLSWITCH (2007-12-08 06:07:06)

KILLSWITCH wrote:

Dragonclaw wrote:

Youre kidding right? They dont carry firearms? Thats pathetic. If someone pulls a gun on them theyre helpless. If they see someone shooting they cant do shit about it. What kind of shit government doesnt let the cops carry guns?

You miss the point, because firearms are illegal in the first place in the UK we seldom hear about officers getting gunned down, obviously sometimes it is going to happen as in the case of Sharon Beshenivsky.

As someone stated though, we have SO19, which is deployed in a situation where armed officers are actually needed.

It is our so-called shit government's policy on gun control that has us sitting happily at the bottom end of this list, and you guys at the top.

Maybe you need to take a look at yourself before calling another government shit.

Blah. Per Capita stats dont mean shit.

The Sheriff wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

Strngs012 wrote:

Apparently the UK.

They aren't issued firearms except for some officers in special situations, but I guess someone from UK could explain this better than me.

Regular police officers dont carry firearms, there are several firearms police units spread around the whole of the uk, e.g. theres one for north east wales, multiple in london and city areas, simply, the police officers dont need firearms, due to the fact that gun crime is not a major problem in the UK.

I can't speak for the UK, I don't live there so it wouldn't be fair to comment on how well the system works. All I know is how it is here in the US. I grew up just outside of NYC during a time of high crime and remember seeing the news about cops gettting killed regularly. Now I live in Fl and it's no different here. In fact the gun laws here are a little scary:
A. Child Access Prevention Law? Yes, under 16.

Juvenile Possession Law? Yes, 18 years of age and older.

Juvenile Sale/Transfer Law? Yes, 18 years of age and older.

State Requirements
Rifles and Shotguns

    * Permit to purchase rifles and shotguns? No
    * Registration of rifles and shotguns? No
    * Licensing of owners of rifles and shotguns? No
    * Permit to carry rifles and shotguns? No

Handguns

    * Permit to purchase handgun? No
    * Registration of handguns? No
    * Licensing of owners of handguns? No
    * Permit to carry handguns? Yes

Other Requirements

    * Is there a State waiting period? Yes - three-day to five-day (depending on county) wait to get a permit to buy a handgun.*

      *According to the NRA, there is a three-day waiting period to purchase a handgun from a retail establishment. Exempt from the waiting period are concealed weapons permit holders and those trading in another handgun.

    * Is there a background check at the state level? Yes.

    * Permit to carry a concealed weapon required? Yes

    * Record of sale: No

deeznutz1245 wrote:

Blah. Per Capita stats dont mean shit.

What are you talking about?  Per capita takes into account a nations size and represents the data fairly and accurately.  It's probably the best measure for such an issue.

I think this thread got quite heated and made some really good points:

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=63391

The only thing I do like about the effects of the gun laws in America is that if you kill a cop. You're completely screwed for life, I like this.

In the UK I don't like the way a guy can shoot a cop and only get 20 years, with 11 years of non-parole. This is completely worng.

Should police carry fire arms?

can i get a HELL YEAH?!

If the police handed in their firearms do you think the crims would be so obliging?

I carry a weapon for work everyday and i'm only a security gaurd and i wouldn't do the job without it and i'm rarely in dangerous situations,

imaging what the police face every day.

Strngs012 wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

The average cop on the street shouldn't have a gun, but there should be armed response units for those occasions when armed criminals are found.

Ok Genius your the cop, you have no weapon. You come across an armed drug dealer and he has his .357 mag pointed at your face. What are you gonna do? I'll tell you what your gonna do, Your gonna think to yourself what asshole said I'm not allowed to carry a weapon because society will not benifit from both sides having a gun. Boom your dead. Too bad the armed response units couldn't get there in time to save your sorry ass.

Ok Genius your a cop, you have a weapon. You come across an armed drug dealer and he has his .357 mag pointed at your face. What are you gonna do? I'll tell you what your gonna do, Your gonna think to yourself, shall I go for my gun and get my face blown off, result being you're a dead cop and there's one more gun in the hands of a criminal or shall I stick my hands up and let him take my gun, result being one more gun in the hands of criminals and the criminal not being arrested. Your stolen gun is then later used by another criminal to shoot your cop buddy.

In your situation the gun didn't seem to help much did it? (ok the last bit was extremely unlikely but you get the point)

@Deeznuts. If you don't like per capita stats then we can look at total gun homicides if you like. Approximately 70 gun homicides in the UK per year, approximately 10,000 per year in the US.

I'm not sure why people aren't following the fairly obvious logic, if cops and civillians want guns to defend themselves against armed criminals, then criminals (being people too with almost exactly the same logic, self-preservation etc. as non criminal people) will feel the need to arm themselves to defend themselves from the armed cops/civillians. As I said, the situation is different depending on whether the civillian population is armed or not. If the population is armed it makes sense that the cops should have access to the same levels of armament as the rest of the populace, plus they will be vastly more likely to need it.

PBAsydney wrote:

They should carry batons and tasers, if they are dealing with armed individuals call in the SWAT which will have automatic weapons. (It's like this in Iceland)

Of course this wouldn't work in the states, since everybody criminal is armed there.

They should carry tasers and batons to use as a first response and carry firearms as a last defence.

What are they gonna do while they wait for the swat team? ask the crims to not use their firearms coz it wouldn't be fair?

I personally value the police very highly and their safety is of utmost importance, they are the people who are in the front line of our societies

going up against crims who have very little regard for the well being of the  administrators  of law.

They MUST carry firearms at all times while on duty untill such time as ALL criminals surrender their firearms.

Last edited by velocitychaos (2007-12-08 07:13:50)

In response to the topic, I'd say it's entirely dependent on where in the world you are. In the US, it'd be out of the question, while in the UK, it works just fine. Nothing's really cut and dried.

deeznutz1245 wrote:

Blah. Per Capita stats dont mean shit.

It's probably the best statistical measure for these kinds of numbers, and is undeniably completely indicative of the prevalence of something on a national level.

deeznutz1245 wrote:

Here is a town that is close to me (in the same county) where all of the police officers carry firearms. Oh and by the way the majority of the town is Republican, as well as registered gun owners. In 2005 it was the 3rd safest town in America. Hhhmmm. I understand it is not the norm for all cities in the U.S., I just wanted to point out that some of ya'lls logic is flawed.

That's not a flaw in the logic that more guns typically lead to more gun crime at all. You're pointing out a best case scenario, a best case that's very detached from the average reality. It's no surprise that these exist, as there's always going to be an example that goes against the common outcome.

It's like saying that roses grow perfectly fine on the South Pole if by some weird coincidence one single rose managed to grow out of it. That's a flawed logic.

All one has to do is look at national gun crime tendencies of countries with proliferation of firearms and compare them to the tendencies of countries with bans or insignificant proliferation to see that more firearms mean more gun crime.

Last edited by mikkel (2007-12-08 07:20:44)

=MCHD= arush5268d wrote:

ShowMeTheMonkey wrote:

The good thing about the UK is that neither groups has guns. Yes there are a lot out there, but only used civilian v civilian.

Sorry to disagree but as soon as you give the police guns the amount of illegal guns HUGELY increases. I feel safer without guns at all.

You may feel safer, but you have no balls.  Guns don't kill people...people kill me.  Don't even tell me that you don't have homicides in the UK.  Or are knives illegal to own to?  Is it your country that's repsonsible for all the new banned items on the airlines???

No, that would be the US. I guess they have no "balls" either. You really ought to drop that infantile macho outlook on life. We're supposed to be civilised people.

=MCHD= arush5268d wrote:

I'm well aware of who and what is responsible for the insane airline rules.  Nothing amuses me more than closing the barn doors after the horses got loose. 
I've said it time and time again....the majority of people here are law-abiding citizens.  It is a very few minority that wish to do harm, and they will get weapons regardless of any laws.  Gun control laws only hurt the good guys.

It's almost amusing that you can keep repeating this obviously inaccurate sentiment after documentation of how it just isn't true has been presented to you in this thread.

Last edited by mikkel (2007-12-08 07:42:40)

In the United States they have to.  Criminals carry guns.

Strngs012 wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

The average cop on the street shouldn't have a gun, but there should be armed response units for those occasions when armed criminals are found.

Ok Genius your the cop, you have no weapon. You come across an armed drug dealer and he has his .357 mag pointed at your face. What are you gonna do? I'll tell you what your gonna do, Your gonna think to yourself what asshole said I'm not allowed to carry a weapon because society will not benifit from both sides having a gun. Boom your dead. Too bad the armed response units couldn't get there in time to save your sorry ass.

When the hell is that EVER going to happen in the UK? Something like that has happened about 2x in the last 15 years.

I have to say threads like these make me glad I live in Europe.

Last edited by Vilham (2007-12-08 08:05:56)