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Topic closed

2007-08-07 06:52:02
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6685|NT, like Mick Dundee

Psychology and money; the modern religions.

Why decide what to think when a shrink can tell you... That said I acknowledge the validity of the science.


"Why do I believe in God?"

Why not? If it helps you sleep at night. As long as you don't go preaching... That takes me to another point.








Why do the aethiests of this forum have to be so anal, condecending and why do they create so many threads on this topic? Leave and let be.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
2007-08-07 06:54:05
twiistaaa
Member
+87|6689|mexico

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:

I'm glad your dad recovered mate but I'm sure medical science could explain it.  Were the doctors lost for an explanation or did you choose not to listen to it?  I'm a big fan of psycology and although I don't know the techinical term it sounds like a classic case of filtering to me.  Let's say you prey for 10 things and 5 of them happen, you would qualify the ones that did come true and miracles and remember them and you would disregard any that don't come true and forget about them.  Have you ever thought about someone and in the same space of time they have phoned you or knocked on your door?  Initially it seems freaky but when you calculate how many times you think of people and how many times people come calling it is only a matter of time before it happens.  It's the same principle, you'd remember that but not remember all the times you weren't thinking about people and they called or vice versa.

Has every single prayer you've ever made been answered and if not, surely this tells you a lot about coincidence...
exactly. and how much did he investigate to find the actual cause of the "miracle"?

i'd i assume none or no more then a passing question to the doctor. it was just his assumption that it was god.

i doubt (and why) god would specifically save his dad and let the how ever many thousands of other praying people die.
2007-08-07 07:09:52
=OBS= EstebanRey
Member
+256|6571|Oxford, England, UK, EU, Earth
Best quote I heard was "I used to be an athiest until I realised I was God"
2007-08-07 07:13:01
OmniDeath
~
+726|6664

Flecco wrote:

Psychology and money; the modern religions.

Why decide what to think when a shrink can tell you... That said I acknowledge the validity of the science.


"Why do I believe in God?"

Why not? If it helps you sleep at night. As long as you don't go preaching... That takes me to another point.








Why do the aethiests of this forum have to be so anal, condecending and why do they create so many threads on this topic? Leave and let be.
I believe that's only dese...err...Mitch.
2007-08-07 07:18:58
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6685|NT, like Mick Dundee

OmniDeath wrote:

Flecco wrote:

Psychology and money; the modern religions.

Why decide what to think when a shrink can tell you... That said I acknowledge the validity of the science.


"Why do I believe in God?"

Why not? If it helps you sleep at night. As long as you don't go preaching... That takes me to another point.








Why do the aethiests of this forum have to be so anal, condecending and why do they create so many threads on this topic? Leave and let be.
I believe that's only dese...err...Mitch.
Probably, had a shit day though so I don't care.

And thanks for the karma, who ever gave it. I have mods on the inside who will track you down and e-slap your arse for that.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
2007-08-07 07:22:40
topal63
. . .
+533|6739
I sent it

There are less God threads than you think (in D&ST):
https://i14.tinypic.com/5x5b1h4

& a couple ask basic philosophical questions. God is a universal symbol/metaphor/reference point, and as an idea it does not belong to anyone, any group or any single person.

Last edited by topal63 (2007-08-07 07:39:02)

2007-08-07 21:33:10
Velker
Accused aimbot user
+31|6294|Ohio

Ratzinger wrote:

The rank arrogance of some people!

Gee you must be special J][gga, cos HE chose to save you, not just once, but numerous times! As opposed to all the children who were abused to death, but then they weren't SPECIAL. FFS.

Likewise Velker, your Dad is obviously more important to God than all those stillborn babies, cos HE saved him with a miracle!

You nasty little parasites, you're gonna die just like everyone else, and I hope its fucking PAINFUL!
You sir are an idiot, not to mention a flamer with an agenda against those who believe in a higher being. This isn't the "bash the person with the comments above you" thread. This is the explain why you believe in God thread. If you have a valid point then address it, quit dishing out your unfounded hatred to people you don't even know. I explained why I believe in God. I didn't cite the example of my dad because I think he or I are better than anyone else in the world. I already explained that I believe that God does not answer all prayers to the extent that we would like, which would account for why some people die an untimely death while others are spared. I don't know how the whole thing works and neither do you. I was merely citing the example because I believe that God did save my dad (for whatever reason) because his doctor, as well as his medical partners, could not explain why his blood pressure was staying down an average of 40 points below its usually dangerous heart attack level. People like you need to stay out the the Debate and Serious Talk section because you clearly use it to do nothing more than lash out at others who do not share your own opinions.

Last edited by Velker (2007-08-07 21:34:25)

2007-08-07 21:36:30
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+794|6705|United States of America

Ratzinger wrote:

The rank arrogance of some people!

Gee you must be special J][gga, cos HE chose to save you, not just once, but numerous times! As opposed to all the children who were abused to death, but then they weren't SPECIAL. FFS.

Likewise Velker, your Dad is obviously more important to God than all those stillborn babies, cos HE saved him with a miracle!

You nasty little parasites, you're gonna die just like everyone else, and I hope its fucking PAINFUL!
Dude, Buddhism. You need some goddamn inner peace and fast! Find some ideology that treats everyone as humans with an equal respect until you can establish that they are not worthy of it. Be nice FFS!
2007-08-07 21:40:59
bargarse
Member
+1|6169
the answer is not complex....use your logic in which you govern your everyday life and the answer is pretty obvious...lets evolve people
2007-08-07 21:42:31
Scr0k
A clown killed my dad
+47|6535|Alabama

RedTwizzler wrote:

kiteboarderni wrote:

because the bible syaso....


and yes i am a christian and always was brought up to be one. and my belief that what the bible says goes
(Again, not questioning your beliefs)

Why do you believe that the Bible is the Holy Scripture? I understand that it says so in the Bible, but why do you believe it?
Galatians 1:11 - The bible isn't something that a man made up. It's God's word. And if the Bible is the word of God than I think that the stuff in the bible is true. Ever heard of the book called "90 minutes in heaven". It's about a guy who died went to heaven, and miraculously came back to like 90 minutes later and said he went to heaven. Read it.

Last edited by Scr0k (2007-08-07 21:45:02)

2007-08-07 21:46:29
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6792|PNW

Scr0k wrote:

RedTwizzler wrote:

kiteboarderni wrote:

because the bible syaso....


and yes i am a christian and always was brought up to be one. and my belief that what the bible says goes
(Again, not questioning your beliefs)

Why do you believe that the Bible is the Holy Scripture? I understand that it says so in the Bible, but why do you believe it?
Galatians 1:11 - The bible isn't something that a man made up. It's God's word. And if the Bible is the word of God than I think that the stuff in the bible is true. Ever heard of the book called "90 minutes in heaven". It's about a guy who died went to heaven, and miraculously came back to like 90 minutes later and said he went to heaven. Read it.
Galatians 1:08 - But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
What if they preached a different gospel before that? Self-canceling statement.
2007-08-07 21:50:10
Velker
Accused aimbot user
+31|6294|Ohio

=OBS= EstebanRey wrote:

Velker wrote:

I've posted on why I believe in God on bf2s before, but I think its important to do it again. Initially, it was my upbringing as a child. My parents would take me to church and I would attend Sunday school. I was surrounding by Christian educators who would teach me the stories of the Old and New Testaments. However, as I became older, my faith in God "became my own," meaning I no longer simply believed in Him because others had told me that He exists. It boiled down to personal experience, certain pivotal situations in my life that would have only been made possible by the divine influence of the Lord.

The miraculous healing of my dad was one such event. He had been having high blood pressure for years. Even with medication he was never really relaxed and always seemed on edge. One day his blood pressure had gotten so out of control that a blood vessel had burst inside the bridge of his nose. He thought it was a simple nose bleed, but when he couldn't get it to stop bleeding after an hour we realized that something was wrong. Not long after that event, I had a dream that he had died of a heart attack right in front of me; it was the scariest dream I have ever had. I woke up in a panic. After calming down I began to pray. I prayed that God would heal my dad, that the events of my dream would not become a reality. About a week after praying that prayer my dad met up with his doctor to find out how he was doing after the blood vessel incident. The doctor informed him that his blood pressure was miraculously back to a healthy state. I was speechless! I knew it wasn't because of medicine because it had never really relieved him of high blood pressure before, and also because his blood pressure stayed (and has stayed) down after the appointment. Why all of a sudden was a potentially life-threatening ailment that he had been battling for years suddenly in check again?! I knew it had been an answer to prayer.

I know that God exists because of the situations that He has helped me through and the joy that I have in my own life in knowing Him by having a relationship with Him through Jesus Christ. I don't pretend to believe that God will answer all prayers, but He does hear them. They have to be in accordance will His will, and for whatever reason my dad still had/has a purpose to fulfill on this earth.
I'm glad your dad recovered mate but I'm sure medical science could explain it.  Were the doctors lost for an explanation or did you choose not to listen to it?  I'm a big fan of psycology and although I don't know the techinical term it sounds like a classic case of filtering to me.  Let's say you prey for 10 things and 5 of them happen, you would qualify the ones that did come true and miracles and remember them and you would disregard any that don't come true and forget about them.  Have you ever thought about someone and in the same space of time they have phoned you or knocked on your door?  Initially it seems freaky but when you calculate how many times you think of people and how many times people come calling it is only a matter of time before it happens.  It's the same principle, you'd remember that but not remember all the times you weren't thinking about people and they called or vice versa.

Has every single prayer you've ever made been answered and if not, surely this tells you a lot about coincidence...
If the Lord answered every single prayer I prayed then He would not be the Lord, but a genie made to grant me anything I ever asked for. He cannot be contained or told what to do. He does not owe me, or anyone else anything. When He does answer prayers He answers them when they are in accordance with His will. Just because some prayers are answered while others seem to be unanswered does not mean that everything we know boils down to coincidence.

I'm not trying to be argumentative man, you seem like one of the nicer guys I've come into contact with on this particular forum, so please don't take my rebuttal the wrong way.
2007-08-07 21:56:43
Havok
Nymphomaniac Treatment Specialist
+302|6695|Florida, United States

Scr0k wrote:

RedTwizzler wrote:

kiteboarderni wrote:

because the bible syaso....


and yes i am a christian and always was brought up to be one. and my belief that what the bible says goes
(Again, not questioning your beliefs)

Why do you believe that the Bible is the Holy Scripture? I understand that it says so in the Bible, but why do you believe it?
Galatians 1:11 - The bible isn't something that a man made up. It's God's word. And if the Bible is the word of God than I think that the stuff in the bible is true. Ever heard of the book called "90 minutes in heaven". It's about a guy who died went to heaven, and miraculously came back to like 90 minutes later and said he went to heaven. Read it.
I don't think I understand, so I'm going to need you to explain this to me.  You're saying that the Bible is God's word, so it must be true.  But who or what says the Bible is God's word?  The Bible does, right?  So to summarize, the Bible says the Bible is true.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

My question to you is, if the Bible says that the Bible is God's word (which it does say, obviously), how do we know it's actually true.  We can't talk to God to ask him if it's telling the truth.  Who's to say that it's not making up or exaggerating facts?  Try explaining it to me without using the Bible as a source or reference to prove your point, because that would defeat the point of this question.
2007-08-07 22:07:04
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6489

Flecco wrote:

Why do the aethiests of this forum have to be so anal, condecending and why do they create so many threads on this topic? Leave and let be.
2007-08-07 22:16:26
RedTwizzler
I do it for the lulz.
+124|6558|Chicago

doctastrangelove1964 wrote:

Flecco wrote:

Why do the aethiests of this forum have to be so anal, condecending and why do they create so many threads on this topic? Leave and let be.
I can't speak for all athiests, obviously, but the reason I created this thread (over half a year ago, btw, I have no idea why it's still running) was because of my sheer fascination with religious people. I simply don't -get- religious people. I want to know more about why you have faith in what you do. It's analogous to one's wonderment at some sort of exotic reptile - I have no idea why you do things the way you do or think the way you do, and therefore I want to learn more.

Does that make any sense? Probably not. I'm tired as shit. I'll look back on this and cringe, I bet. Oh well, that's the best reasoning you're getting.
2007-08-07 22:18:47
Skruples
Mod Incarnate
+234|6721

doctastrangelove1964 wrote:

Flecco wrote:

Why do the aethiests of this forum have to be so anal, condecending and why do they create so many threads on this topic? Leave and let be.
In my opinion, radical Christians are a far greater threat to this country than their Muslim counterparts. Leave and let be only applies when the other side isn't trying to sneak their religious doctrine into the laws and administration of the state.
2007-08-07 22:21:56
tkoi
Utahraptor!
+148|6168|Texas

Havok wrote:

Scr0k wrote:

RedTwizzler wrote:


(Again, not questioning your beliefs)

Why do you believe that the Bible is the Holy Scripture? I understand that it says so in the Bible, but why do you believe it?
Galatians 1:11 - The bible isn't something that a man made up. It's God's word. And if the Bible is the word of God than I think that the stuff in the bible is true. Ever heard of the book called "90 minutes in heaven". It's about a guy who died went to heaven, and miraculously came back to like 90 minutes later and said he went to heaven. Read it.
I don't think I understand, so I'm going to need you to explain this to me.  You're saying that the Bible is God's word, so it must be true.  But who or what says the Bible is God's word?  The Bible does, right?  So to summarize, the Bible says the Bible is true.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

My question to you is, if the Bible says that the Bible is God's word (which it does say, obviously), how do we know it's actually true.  We can't talk to God to ask him if it's telling the truth.  Who's to say that it's not making up or exaggerating facts?  Try explaining it to me without using the Bible as a source or reference to prove your point, because that would defeat the point of this question.
Faith.
2007-08-07 22:23:57
David.P
Banned
+649|6294

Skruples wrote:

doctastrangelove1964 wrote:

Flecco wrote:

Why do the aethiests of this forum have to be so anal, condecending and why do they create so many threads on this topic? Leave and let be.
In my opinion, radical Christians are a far greater threat to this country than their Muslim counterparts. Leave and let be only applies when the other side isn't trying to sneak their religious doctrine into the laws and administration of the state.
You have'nt had any experience with Muslims have you? You are from a western country where the only influence you had with any major religion was Christianity am i right? And since you have the right to speak out and be different then the people in a muslim country this is how you got your views, Do you think if they had a chance to speak out against Allah and Mohammed they would'nt? If they did'nt have to fear so many things the Middle east might be a different place but sadly people are assholes who will do anything for power, No matter how good something is it can and will be turned bad.
2007-08-07 22:35:05
Scr0k
A clown killed my dad
+47|6535|Alabama

Havok wrote:

Scr0k wrote:

RedTwizzler wrote:

(Again, not questioning your beliefs)

Why do you believe that the Bible is the Holy Scripture? I understand that it says so in the Bible, but why do you believe it?
Galatians 1:11 - The bible isn't something that a man made up. It's God's word. And if the Bible is the word of God than I think that the stuff in the bible is true. Ever heard of the book called "90 minutes in heaven". It's about a guy who died went to heaven, and miraculously came back to like 90 minutes later and said he went to heaven. Read it.
I don't think I understand, so I'm going to need you to explain this to me.  You're saying that the Bible is God's word, so it must be true.  But who or what says the Bible is God's word?  The Bible does, right?  So to summarize, the Bible says the Bible is true.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

My question to you is, if the Bible says that the Bible is God's word (which it does say, obviously), how do we know it's actually true.  We can't talk to God to ask him if it's telling the truth.  Who's to say that it's not making up or exaggerating facts?  Try explaining it to me without using the Bible as a source or reference to prove your point, because that would defeat the point of this question.
There are historical documents (from Jesus' time)written by atheists that have been recorded and are strait forward facts. In these documents it says that Jesus was a real man that did amazing things. Some of these documents have eyewitness accounts and actual information on miracles that Jesus performed.  In the Bible, these same miracles are described. A research in England showed that the historical stories written by atheists and the Bible stories are 99.1% parallel to each other.

Who's to say that its not making up or exaggerating facts? Those historical documents written by atheists. 

One thing that really gives me personal confirmation is this information that i have come upon while reading the bible:

The Psalms in the bible were written around 1000 B.C. (1000 years before Jesus came)

Psalm 22:14- Messiah's bones strained at the joints.
Psalm 22:15- Messiah's mouth agonizingly dry
Psalm 22.16- Messiah's hands and feet pierced
Psalm 22:17- Messiah's bones UNBROKEN
Psalm 22:18- Lots cast for Messiah's clothes
Psalm 69: 1-2- Messiah experiencing sensation of drowning.
Psalm 69:21- Messiah given vinegar to drink

The prophet Isaiah worked around 700 B.C.

Isaiah 7:14- Messiah will be virgin born
Isaiah 53:7- Messiah will die quietly like a lamb
Isaiah 53:9- Messiah will be buried with the rich
Isaiah 53:11-12- Messiah's death will cover sins of many

So basically these guys said "His mouth will be dry but will feel a drowning sensation, his bones will be strain, but unbroken. and he will be virgin born" Either they were really telling the future or that it one incredible guess. These are just a few of the perfect prophecies Christ fulfilled on top of the pictures of His life presented through the lives of Old Testament figures such as Adam, Abel, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Rahab, and Ruth.


Also: Ever heard of the 4 miracles that accompanied the death of Jesus Christ on the cross?

Matthew 27:45: The Midday darkness.
Matthew 27:51: The Tearing of the holy curtain in the Jewish temple that separated the temple from the holy room in which the Jews believe the Holy Spirit presided. (only the holiest of people could go into this room and had to have a rope tied around their waste just incase they died while in the room because of the overwhelming presence of God)
Matthew 27:51: The Earthquake
Matthew 27:52: The Holy dead coming to life.

These are all HISTORICAL events that happened simultaneously with the death of Jesus Christ. Written not only by people who believed in Jesus, but by atheists as well as people who scolded Jesus.


Jesus died on the cross to wash away the sins of the world. What are the chances that at the same moment that Jesus died, the important curtain in the Jewish temple that separated the Holy Room where God was from the rest of the temple) tore from the top. Revealing the room where God was with all the people in the temple. I don't know about you, but this stuff convinces me.

If any of this is unclear just PM me, I would be happy to tell you more about the Bible.
2007-08-07 22:35:34
Havok
Nymphomaniac Treatment Specialist
+302|6695|Florida, United States

David.P wrote:

Skruples wrote:

doctastrangelove1964 wrote:

In my opinion, radical Christians are a far greater threat to this country than their Muslim counterparts. Leave and let be only applies when the other side isn't trying to sneak their religious doctrine into the laws and administration of the state.
You have'nt had any experience with Muslims have you? You are from a western country where the only influence you had with any major religion was Christianity am i right? And since you have the right to speak out and be different then the people in a muslim country this is how you got your views, Do you think if they had a chance to speak out against Allah and Mohammed they would'nt? If they did'nt have to fear so many things the Middle east might be a different place but sadly people are assholes who will do anything for power, No matter how good something is it can and will be turned bad.
You actually proved his point.  He said that radical Christians were more of a thread to this country, denoting America.  You're right about a few things though, like how he has met far more Christians than Muslims in America.  But that goes to prove his point.  Because there are more Christians in America than Muslims, there is a greater chance of radical activity among Christians because there are more of them.  Therefore, there is a greater risk of radicalism amongst Christians than Muslims in America because there are simply more Christians than Muslims.

To reply to your other comment about Muslims denying Allah as their God and so on, that's almost appalling that you would think that they would do that.  Islam is a religion just like Christianity.  I'm sure you're not willing to give up your God, so why would they be?

Let me reword your statement and tell me if you agree with it:
Do you think if they [Christians] had a chance to speak out against God and Jesus they wouldn't?
Considering the way you defend your religious beliefs, no, I don't think you would give up your God if you had a chance.  It's disgusting that you think Islam is so below your religion and culture that it's followers would give up their beliefs as soon as they are 'liberated' by the West.
2007-08-07 22:37:21
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6489
This thread lost it's original intention and devolved into a flame war.

Close please.
2007-08-07 22:40:17
David.P
Banned
+649|6294
@Havok Ya i did word it wrong. I meant to say is.

"If secular people in the Mid-east had a chance to question Allah and Muhammed do you think they would'nt?"

I dont think islam is below i think the Mentality of islam is below everything. I know Christians did the same things too but atleast we admitted to our mistakes and the evil that can be done with our religion by very very selfish and greedy men.

Last edited by David.P (2007-08-07 22:42:02)

2007-08-07 22:42:19
Skruples
Mod Incarnate
+234|6721

David.P wrote:

Skruples wrote:

doctastrangelove1964 wrote:

In my opinion, radical Christians are a far greater threat to this country than their Muslim counterparts. Leave and let be only applies when the other side isn't trying to sneak their religious doctrine into the laws and administration of the state.
You have'nt had any experience with Muslims have you? You are from a western country where the only influence you had with any major religion was Christianity am i right? And since you have the right to speak out and be different then the people in a muslim country this is how you got your views, Do you think if they had a chance to speak out against Allah and Mohammed they would'nt? If they did'nt have to fear so many things the Middle east might be a different place but sadly people are assholes who will do anything for power, No matter how good something is it can and will be turned bad.
Your point? There are close to 3 million Muslims in the United States. I've had contact with them. I've had much, much more contact with Christianity, as they are far greater in number. Muslims do not hold any respectable political power in the United States. Christians, unfortunately, do. Gay marriage, Stem cell research, 10 commandments in public places, prayer in school, Intelligent design for fucks sake, there are any number of political and or scientific issues that the christian right keeps bringing up when it has absolutely no right to, and I find that far more disturbing than different religious extremists from half a world away, whose only influence is a 30 second sound byte on the evening news. That may change, but I doubt that Islam is about to rise up en masse and attack the western world. On the other hand, I believe something like 25% of the last presidential vote was from fundamentalist Christians. I'll look up the statistics and either confirm or rectract that statement.
2007-08-07 22:43:36
Darkhelmet
cereal killer
+233|6771|the middle of nowhere
What do you mean by "the religious?"
2007-08-07 22:53:59
mcminty
Moderating your content for the Australian Govt.
+879|6742|Sydney, Australia

Skruples wrote:

Your point? There are close to 3 million Muslims in the United States. I've had contact with them. I've had much, much more contact with Christianity, as they are far greater in number. Muslims do not hold any respectable political power in the United States. Christians, unfortunately, do. Gay marriage, Stem cell research, 10 commandments in public places, prayer in school, Intelligent design for fucks sake, there are any number of political and or scientific issues that the christian right keeps bringing up when it has absolutely no right to, and I find that far more disturbing than different religious extremists from half a world away, whose only influence is a 30 second sound byte on the evening news. That may change, but I doubt that Islam is about to rise up en masse and attack the western world. On the other hand, I believe something like 25% of the last presidential vote was from fundamentalist Christians. I'll look up the statistics and either confirm or rectract that statement.
You have just summed up everything I hate about the marriage (or would it be union ) of politics and religion.



On that note, I think that this thread has had it's run. It should be put to rest.

Topic closed

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