wah1188
You orrible caaaaaaan't
+321|6751|UK

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

You have very good points and I totally agree with you. I have had the same experience. No one in here is saying that ALL Muslims are terrorists. What I want to know and what the commentator says is that we see a big double standard in what IS tolerated and what ISN'T. We wonder why crimes committed by so called radical elements of Islam are not protested in the streets....but cartoons are??????? Do you see my point?

Like I said, I was married to and live with muslim people for about 8 years of my life. I got to see first hand how they react. Yes, they were upset about the things they see...but in the next moment it was back to normal.  It was like water under the bridge...it was like "oh well, what can we do anyway" and I wonder when and if moderate Muslims will get a spine and defend their religion from the ACTUAL people destroying it....it is not the West....it is their own people who purposely pervert their religion for violent needs. Protest against the real criminals for once.
Yes I understand that I guess most of them are scared to speak out for fear of reprisals, obviously in generally free speech countries I'm sure they would be ok. Some have spoken about it condemning it and saying it is tarnishing their religion and that they will do their best to co-ordinate with the police.

To some extent we are all as stupid as each other, some of the Muslims reacted really really over the top to the cartoons I bet some of them didn't see it themselves. They were stupid slightly offensive I guess stupid thing was they blame the Danish!!! I mean its freedom of speech its not like the Government oversees every newspaper being produced to see if its politically correct right? I mean in the UK our papers CONSTANTLY slag off our Prime minster he can't do nothing about it. Maybe they should have had a go at the just the newspaper company, I mean not all of Denmark thinks those cartoons are funny right? Then after the bomb scares this summer in the UK there were revenge attacks on Mosques or something like that so in general we are just as bad as each other.

A person is smart (most of them) but people are stupid something like that sounds dumb but you kinda do get the point.
DeathBecomesYu
Member
+171|6470

Marinejuana wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:

wah1188 wrote:

Some people need to open their eyes not all Muslims are AK-47 toting suicide vest wearing ragheads, stop stereotyping and judging people before you even give them a chance to open their mouths.
Most of us understand that.  But some of us understand you do not need to be holding an AK......

"The Justice Department yesterday unsealed the indictment of the nation's largest Muslim charity and seven of its top officials on charges of funneling $12.4 million over six years to individuals and groups associated with the Islamic Resistance Movement, or Hamas"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar … Jul27.html
thanks for giving us a link USMarine. $12.4 is absolutely nothing compared to the funds that drive the U.S. and Israeli military occupations. Our war has already cost more than $100 billion, lest we forget that the world knows we give Israel about $5 billion every year for war. You have given us yet another example of why we should have more sympathy for the Muslims than we do for U.S. terror victims. Keep trying!

usmarine2005 wrote:

Marinejuana wrote:


okay, so u name a subject but fail to make a point.
I think the Lancet has been beat to death on this forum.  99% agree it is BS.  But hey, what do I know.
can i make up statistics too?

If you feel that the three links I posted are not accurate death counts for whatever reason, why don't you post a link to the most accurate death count?

Either way, you know its a fact that many more Muslims have died because of America than Americans have died due to Muslim terror attacks. You can post all you like, but you still haven't advanced your side of the argument at all. Obviously the radio host's point is BS if the Muslims are victims.
MAN...you are in left field..no you are in the parking lot!!!

This is NOT a thread about AMERICA VS MUSLIMS.....its about why moderate Muslims have had their religion hi-jacked by the radical elements and why the double standard in the outrage towards cartoons and actual violence.... GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL. The commentator used example after example that had NOTHING to do with violence from Muslims against America. He was pointing out the violence ALL AROUND THE WORLD perpetrated by people who claim to be Muslim and the "sitting on hands" that most moderates take. Stick the the point of this thread or make your own!!!!!!!!!
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6934
he still thinks that U.S. troops are directly responsible for the majority of iraqi civilian deaths. thats fucking offensive.
DeathBecomesYu
Member
+171|6470

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

he still thinks that U.S. troops are directly responsible for the majority of iraqi civilian deaths. thats fucking offensive.
At this point..just consider the source, he is just trying to derail the thread.
Dimeyard
Member
+7|6619|Sweden

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

he still thinks that U.S. troops are directly responsible for the majority of iraqi civilian deaths. thats fucking offensive.
I think so too.
Am I offensive to you?
DeathBecomesYu
Member
+171|6470

Dimeyard wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

he still thinks that U.S. troops are directly responsible for the majority of iraqi civilian deaths. thats fucking offensive.
I think so too.
Am I offensive to you?
Not to me..but it makes you ignorant.
Dimeyard
Member
+7|6619|Sweden

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

Dimeyard wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

he still thinks that U.S. troops are directly responsible for the majority of iraqi civilian deaths. thats fucking offensive.
I think so too.
Am I offensive to you?
Not to me..but it makes you ignorant.
Ignorant.. hmm.

Do you guys get your general knowledge from Fox News or what?
DeathBecomesYu
Member
+171|6470

Dimeyard wrote:

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

Dimeyard wrote:

I think so too.
Am I offensive to you?
Not to me..but it makes you ignorant.
Ignorant.. hmm.

Do you guys get your general knowledge from Fox News or what?
Here we go...now I'm a Republican somehow and I watch Fox news....if that is how you obtain facts by GUESSING then yes you are ignorant.

For your information..GunSlinger gets his info from actually being in Iraq for a year...can you say the same? Okay, back on topic now.

Last edited by DeathBecomesYu (2007-07-19 00:47:09)

zeidmaan
Member
+234|6706|Vienna

You should think of Muslim Extreemists in some countries as the ruthless dictators that kill anyone who opposes them. And it always takes A LONG time to overthrow a dictator. Be honest with you selves.
Its easy for us to live in the western world and talk shit about our presidents when you are absolutely sure nothing will happen to you. Its easy to act all brave and revolutionary and imagine how you would organize an armed resistance and free your country from the evil oppressor. But WHAT IF speaking against Gorge Bush ment a very real possibility of all 3 of your children and your wife and 2 brothers being killed? How brave would you be than? Be honest. I would really like to know.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6965|Canberra, AUS

Dimeyard wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

he still thinks that U.S. troops are directly responsible for the majority of iraqi civilian deaths. thats fucking offensive.
I think so too.
Am I offensive to you?
He would be offended, because in essence you are accusing his comrades on the ground of things they did not do.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Marinejuana
local
+415|6876|Seattle

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

I will say that we have killed a lot of enemy combatants. I hope so because it is a war and I'm sure the people risking their lives shoot back...kill or be killed. Marinejuana....how old are you? Have you been in a war? Have you spoken or be friends with a soldier who has died or come back from Iraq? I bet the answer is no to all of them and if you say yes....then you are a liar too. Because if you did, you wouldn't be spewing the BS you are trying to spew in here. Do you realize that you are speaking to several people who have been to and lived in Iraq? I have not been to Iraq but I did lose a friend there. I'll say this, I would take the word of someone who lived, fought and died there over a guy throwing links from biased websites.
why do you think that only people that are in the military can decide when killing is okay? If this was our policy, how would it be different from rule by a military dictatorship? the constitution (which was ignored for this war) says that congress must approve war. i dont care how much u respect soldiers, but i respect our constitution and its inherent wisdom of forcing a military to obey the people and not the other way around.

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

I did use a link to start a thread about how one person said what I think a lot of people wonder about. "Why moderate Muslims are not trying to defend and take back their religion from the radicals" and marinejuana chooses to turn this into a debate about the American Military and the "carnage" and indiscriminate death by the U.S. military(sarcasm)........How did that happen? Get back on topic marinejuana or make up your own thread about evil America and take your conspiracy BS somewhere else.
the link you posted was to a radical neo-conservative racist that was angry with the Muslim people AS A WHOLE for their lack of a unifying condemnation for terrorist attacks committed by other Muslims. My posts are actually perfectly on-topic because I show how this radio host's point of view is completely backwards with respect to casualties, both Western and Muslim. I'm sorry that your Muslim bashing thread didn't go as smoothly this time as they normally do . You will have to live with the fact that we are the violent aggressor sooner or later.

usmarine2005 wrote:

Marinejuana wrote:

If you feel that the three links I posted are not accurate death counts for whatever reason, why don't you post a link to the most accurate death count?

Either way, you know its a fact that many more Muslims have died because of America than Americans have died due to Muslim terror attacks. You can post all you like, but you still haven't advanced your side of the argument at all. Obviously the radio host's point is BS if the Muslims are victims.
If you can show me how many muslims have killed muslims in Iraq, then we can talk.
"A team of American and Iraqi epidemiologists estimates that 655,000 more people have died in Iraq since coalition forces arrived in March 2003 than would have died if the invasion had not occurred." -washington post

Are you suggesting that the number of Iraqi Muslims killing Iraqi Muslims verges on 665,000? Or even the conservative estimate of 70,000? Don't send me running for more statistics when you haven't even discussed the first 3 submissions I made.

I don't see why you are trying to make the absurd argument that U.S. military occupation isn't the primary source of violence in Iraq. You do realize that there was not a war happening there before we arrived, right? The level of ignorance here is appalling. In the face of enormous death counts and your own army you are crazy enough to claim that the victims are merely killing themselves. i hear a lot of jews were "just killing each other" in the warsaw ghetto.

let me repeat: "A team of American and Iraqi epidemiologists estimates that 655,000 more people have died in Iraq since coalition forces arrived in March 2003 than would have died if the invasion had not occurred."  -washington post

I have posted the best possible evidence to suggest that Iraqis are victimized to a greater degree than Western terror victims, and none of you seem to provide any evidence to dispute this. USMarine, have some self-respect and either concede that you have no evidence whatsoever to support your stance here, or produce such evidence so that outsiders may understand why you agree with the extremist radio host.

Last edited by Marinejuana (2007-07-19 00:57:45)

Dimeyard
Member
+7|6619|Sweden
This whole thread is all about guessing.
Isn´t it?

And I think we are a little off topic.

However. Why volunteer for the American military, to protect the system that forces the weak and poor individual to join the army? The name of God? In the name och peace and justice?

No, to die in the name of oil and racism!

Do you really think that Iraq would be the same mess today, if Saddam Hussein still were the leader?
America has no right or obligation to start war all over the world.

And I am NOT pro Saddam.
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6934
you would be amazed at how many munitions we would find in Iraq that say "made in sweden" or something to that effect.
Dimeyard
Member
+7|6619|Sweden

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

you would be amazed at how many munitions we would find in Iraq that say "made in sweden" or something to that effect.
I´m aware of that, and it´s very disturbing that Sweden provides weapons to a nation who are at war (USA).
It´s against Swedish law actually.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7007

Dimeyard wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

you would be amazed at how many munitions we would find in Iraq that say "made in sweden" or something to that effect.
I´m aware of that, and it´s very disturbing that Sweden provides weapons to a nation who are at war (USA).
It´s against Swedish law actually.
Was anything done to prevent it?
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
DeathBecomesYu
Member
+171|6470

Marinejuana wrote:

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

I did use a link to start a thread about how one person said what I think a lot of people wonder about. "Why moderate Muslims are not trying to defend and take back their religion from the radicals" and marinejuana chooses to turn this into a debate about the American Military and the "carnage" and indiscriminate death by the U.S. military(sarcasm)........How did that happen? Get back on topic marinejuana or make up your own thread about evil America and take your conspiracy BS somewhere else.
the link you posted was to a radical neo-conservative racist that was angry with the Muslim people AS A WHOLE for their lack of a unifying condemnation for terrorist attacks committed by other Muslims. My posts are actually perfectly on-topic because I show how this radio host's point of view is completely backwards with respect to casualties, both Western and Muslim. I'm sorry that your Muslim bashing thread didn't go as smoothly this time as they normally do . You will have to live with the fact that we are the violent aggressor sooner or later.
First, don't try to derail a thread and call it a Muslim bashing thread. That shows your ignorance right there. READ what the OP says. There is a double standard of what moderate Muslims speak out about. I do not bash Muslims because that would be bashing my family. My ex-wife is Muslim and my daughter is Muslim, as well as my step parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles...so forth. So you do not know of what you speak.

You are debating with a man(me) that has a Muslim family and debating with a man(Gunslinger) who was in Iraq and has first hand experience of what is going on there. You, my friend(sarcasm), have what kind of first hand experience?......oh that is right...weblinks. So honestly, when you try to say that this is a Muslim bashing thread...your credibility and intelligence go out the window. You are so blinded with internet "facts" that you barely read what some of us are writing. Good Job!
Dimeyard
Member
+7|6619|Sweden

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

Dimeyard wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

you would be amazed at how many munitions we would find in Iraq that say "made in sweden" or something to that effect.
I´m aware of that, and it´s very disturbing that Sweden provides weapons to a nation who are at war (USA).
It´s against Swedish law actually.
Was anything done to prevent it?
The thing is, that the Swedish government did forbid this.
Still no one cared about the law, and exported weapons to, actually not the U.S, but to U.N.
Then all of a sudden, it ain´t illegal. Cause the U.N is not America. But beacuse of U.S.A claims to be on a U.N basis, they may use our weapons.
DeathBecomesYu
Member
+171|6470

Dimeyard wrote:

However. Why volunteer for the American military, to protect the system that forces the weak and poor individual to join the army? The name of God? In the name och peace and justice?
Here we go again, only the idiots join the army. Are you serious? As some of you already know, I lost a friend in Iraq. This kid was not a "weak and poor individual" forced to join the Army. In the name of God??????HUH???

This kid was very intelligent, his family was well off and he volunteered for the army under his own terms. Its amazing how people think that our military is a bunch of poor people, weak people who are too poor to do anything else....LOL. Man, that is so ignorant. So here is a list of the poor, weak morons in my family.

Grandfather-served on the front lines and decorated in WW2(2 purple hearts)
Great Uncle- served in WW2 (navy)
3 uncles that served during the Korean War
My father served during the Korean War (air force)
1 uncle who served in Vietnam
1 uncle who served during Panama and Grenada
Currently: One Uncle in the Marines and several cousins in different branches.

Each one of these men served their country as a volunteer and none of them were "forced" to do so. Each man has worked hard for what he has, were and are respectable men and all of them came home alive. To call American soldiers "weak and poor" is offensive to me and the men who fought for their country. So take your stereotypes somewhere else.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7007
Aren't most people in the army are middle to high class?
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Dimeyard
Member
+7|6619|Sweden

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

Dimeyard wrote:

However. Why volunteer for the American military, to protect the system that forces the weak and poor individual to join the army? The name of God? In the name och peace and justice?
Here we go again, only the idiots join the army. Are you serious? As some of you already know, I lost a friend in Iraq. This kid was not a "weak and poor individual" forced to join the Army. In the name of God??????HUH???

This kid was very intelligent, his family was well off and he volunteered for the army under his own terms. Its amazing how people think that our military is a bunch of poor people, weak people who are too poor to do anything else....LOL. Man, that is so ignorant. So here is a list of the poor, weak morons in my family.

Grandfather-served on the front lines and decorated in WW2(2 purple hearts)
Great Uncle- served in WW2 (navy)
3 uncles that served during the Korean War
My father served during the Korean War (air force)
1 uncle who served in Vietnam
1 uncle who served during Panama and Grenada
Currently: One Uncle in the Marines and several cousins in different branches.

Each one of these men served their country as a volunteer and none of them were "forced" to do so. Each man has worked hard for what he has, were and are respectable men and all of them came home alive. To call American soldiers "weak and poor" is offensive to me and the men who fought for their country. So take your stereotypes somewhere else.
I´m sorry if you were offended.
I just think it´s so sad that so many americans, and iraqis, have to die each and every day.

Last edited by Dimeyard (2007-07-19 01:35:05)

Pierre
I hunt criminals down for a living
+68|6966|Belgium

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

I just saw this and this radio host hit the nail on the head. I don't agree with how the host started his rant, but if you listen to this whole thing, especially when he calms down....he really gets to the point of how regular Muslims do not stand up to the hi-jacking of their religion and how they rarely speak out against the crimes that are committed in the name of Islam.  A cartoon can tick them off, but not the beheading of children?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3af_1184708307
Interesting topic, as always DBY.

I wonder, could you compare this behaviour of the average Muslims not speaking out against the violence committed in the name of their faith to the similar behaviour of Americans who were living in the Southern states (Mississippi, Alabama, etc.), home of the KKK, in the 50's and 60's, at the time of the racial problems? I remember the movie 'Mississippi burning' with Gene Hackman and William Dafou.

From what I've read about that topic most white Americans living in that area knew what was happening but choose not to talk about it. Were they all racist and members of the KKK? Or were they afraid of their life because they had to live there after the FBI went home? You tell me.

I recently watched a documentation on the TV about the brother of one of the victims at that time, who was going after the criminal who killed his brother (the guy was recently convicted), and even now people were scared. Those criminals were living among the community as if nothing happened.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6912|London, England
Who is a true Muslim?

Those commandos that stormed that mosque in Pakistan.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6846
I don't go out in the street to protest anything, it's pointless. I wouldn't expect muslims to feel any responsibility for the acts of other individuals perverting their religion. Terrorism is a matter for the authorities. There is a bit of a double standard going on though when some muslims get nutty over a cartoon.

Besides - there are plenty of muslims speaking out against Islamic terror, the media prefers to largely overlook that fact however.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-07-19 02:08:47)

DeathBecomesYu
Member
+171|6470

Pierre wrote:

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

I just saw this and this radio host hit the nail on the head. I don't agree with how the host started his rant, but if you listen to this whole thing, especially when he calms down....he really gets to the point of how regular Muslims do not stand up to the hi-jacking of their religion and how they rarely speak out against the crimes that are committed in the name of Islam.  A cartoon can tick them off, but not the beheading of children?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3af_1184708307
Interesting topic, as always DBY.

I wonder, could you compare this behaviour of the average Muslims not speaking out against the violence committed in the name of their faith to the similar behaviour of Americans who were living in the Southern states (Mississippi, Alabama, etc.), home of the KKK, in the 50's and 60's, at the time of the racial problems? I remember the movie 'Mississippi burning' with Gene Hackman and William Dafou.

From what I've read about that topic most white Americans living in that area knew what was happening but choose not to talk about it. Were they all racist and members of the KKK? Or were they afraid of their life because they had to live there after the FBI went home? You tell me.

I recently watched a documentation on the TV about the brother of one of the victims at that time, who was going after the criminal who killed his brother (the guy was recently convicted), and even now people were scared. Those criminals were living among the community as if nothing happened.
I agree...that is my experience with the family members. They don't say much because there is a fear over their heads. In America they don't have that fear..but back in their home country...they do. My brother-in-law, sister-in-law and ex-wife were all threatened in different ways. The most common way was to hand out pamphlets on the streets threatening anyone who may watch a movie, go into a McDonald's or anything they deemed "western".  The radicals didn't wait for that though...they would go right into theaters, go into shops and destroy them so owners had to shut down. One movie theater was attacked so much that the owner gave up.

So, yes, I agree with you there is the element of fear and that is why I believe that you won't see protests in the heart of most Muslim countries. You may see them in countries outside of Muslim countries but honestly, the only true public protest(people marching) was when the dutch cartoons were protested. Other than that, can anyone show me a protest based in a Muslim country against radical Islam...I'm sure it may have happened but I would be surprised.
Marinejuana
local
+415|6876|Seattle

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

Marinejuana wrote:

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

I did use a link to start a thread about how one person said what I think a lot of people wonder about. "Why moderate Muslims are not trying to defend and take back their religion from the radicals" and marinejuana chooses to turn this into a debate about the American Military and the "carnage" and indiscriminate death by the U.S. military(sarcasm)........How did that happen? Get back on topic marinejuana or make up your own thread about evil America and take your conspiracy BS somewhere else.
the link you posted was to a radical neo-conservative racist that was angry with the Muslim people AS A WHOLE for their lack of a unifying condemnation for terrorist attacks committed by other Muslims. My posts are actually perfectly on-topic because I show how this radio host's point of view is completely backwards with respect to casualties, both Western and Muslim. I'm sorry that your Muslim bashing thread didn't go as smoothly this time as they normally do . You will have to live with the fact that we are the violent aggressor sooner or later.
First, don't try to derail a thread and call it a Muslim bashing thread. That shows your ignorance right there. READ what the OP says. There is a double standard of what moderate Muslims speak out about. I do not bash Muslims because that would be bashing my family. My ex-wife is Muslim and my daughter is Muslim, as well as my step parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles...so forth. So you do not know of what you speak.

You are debating with a man(me) that has a Muslim family and debating with a man(Gunslinger) who was in Iraq and has first hand experience of what is going on there. You, my friend(sarcasm), have what kind of first hand experience?......oh that is right...weblinks. So honestly, when you try to say that this is a Muslim bashing thread...your credibility and intelligence go out the window. You are so blinded with internet "facts" that you barely read what some of us are writing. Good Job!
all those words and you never address my point. i dont see why u think my analysis somehow doesnt apply when talking to muslims or soldiers. its not like my flawless logic only applies to certain people. and whether or not you are muslim doesnt change the fact that this thread is full of insensitive people that expect apologies from an oppressed people that deserve nothing more than your mercy. i correctly apply the phrase "muslim bashing" to educate the public about the much greater double standard u hold against muslims when u claim that they should "speak out about" some terrorist attacks that pale in comparison to our military occupation (again, i dont care if ur family is muslim, it has no bearing on the facts of the iraq war).

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