GorillaTicTacs
Member
+231|6375|Kyiv, Ukraine
I think the next election is critical as to whether the USA will keep on its path of relegation to the history books as a "quaint experiment" or whether the Republic can be restored.  The problem lies in our money and the way it works.  We basically need wars to fuel what's left of our economy and stabilize our money.  We need to borrow money to pay for the wars.  Its a spiral that eventually does reach a critical mass.  Our force readiness is broken, our dollar value is in the sewer, the average joe is in debt past his ears, our nation is in debt to our enemies, the wealth distribution took a drastic shift in the last 20 years.  Or, as my grandpa said, when Americans need slave labor to scrub their own toilets, we're the Roman Empire...and he was the biggest Reagan worshipper I've ever met.

Empires, by definition, fade softly or fall hard in the end.  Just as once mighty Britain is the USA's lap dog now, USA will be someone else's in turn if something isn't done to change this situation.  We could become Saudi Arabia's attack poodle (we sort of are...), China's, India's?

It scares me enough that my kid is 4 months old and I still haven't gone to the embassy here to get his American certification.  What will his inheritence be?  I won't saddle him with crushing debt or the humiliation of slavery, even if the cage is so gilded most Americans won't even notice.
Fearmesnipers
Member
+41|6447|Wales

Hunter/Jumper wrote:

Fearmesnipers wrote:

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

We wont fall... we adapt and survive...  If the US was gone the world would collapse... fact
lol pathetic
Yes it is, you'd think they would pick up the pace and try and be less dependent but your right its pathetic how fast they would and have collapsed in the past.
indeed im sure Middle eastern countries would collapse ^^
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6502|so randum
I think the only way the US would fail, would be through economics. As other people pointed out, short of a ICBM Nuke strike, it would be damn near impossible to take down America, Mitlitary style. However, look at the US economic status at this very moment. They hold a huge trade deficit, a status normally associated with developing countrys, and the currency is in no way as stong as it used to be overseas. For example, one GB £ trades at just under 2 US $'s.

My thoughts..
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
ZamoII
Member
+11|6221

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

We wont fall... we adapt and survive...  If the US was gone the world would collapse... fact
wow, just wow. china will take over economically soon mate, you wait and see. 300 million people vs a few billion. theyre bound to have more. the us wont fall, dont get me wrong, not military wise anyway, no1 even comes close to having an army as good as yours
GorillaTicTacs
Member
+231|6375|Kyiv, Ukraine

ZamoII wrote:

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

We wont fall... we adapt and survive...  If the US was gone the world would collapse... fact
wow, just wow. china will take over economically soon mate, you wait and see. 300 million people vs a few billion. theyre bound to have more. the us wont fall, dont get me wrong, not military wise anyway, no1 even comes close to having an army as good as yours
Pound for pound, I'd say the IDF is the only force capable of taking on an equal number of US soldiers.  Unfortunately, we're now pretty well fucked strategically.  Take a gander:
http://www.army.mil/aps/07/balance.html

I'll sum it up for the lay person:
Blah blah blah, HELP US!, blah blah blah, LONG WAR we couldn't predict, blah blah blah, 4-time Stoploss is pissing a few people off, blah blah blah, MORE MONEY, MORE PEOPLE NOW!, blah blah blah, [administration talking point], blah blah blah, [Democrat talking point we agree with], blah blah blah.

We've got a grand total of ONE combat ready brigade at full strength for the Army in our entire force readiness program currently.  If any major power wants to start some shit, now is the time.  Though this sounds counter-intuitive to the neo-conservative agenda, it is actually the intent to gut the regular army.  The future is in contractors for everything from logistics to medicine to front-line combat!  Mercenaries FTW!!!

Last edited by GorillaTicTacs (2007-04-22 14:28:47)

Hunter/Jumper
Member
+117|6356
If any Major power wants to start some nonsense and have a real war. We could use all our resourses in a total  TOTAL WAR .

Better countries have tried. It would be a mistake to think any country could take on the U.S.A.
sfarrar33
Halogenoalkane
+57|6620|InGerLand

Hunter/Jumper wrote:

If any Major power wants to start some nonsense and have a real war. We could use all our resourses in a total  TOTAL WAR .

Better countries have tried. It would be a mistake to think any country could take on the U.S.A.
erm such as?
The only one i can think of was Japan, and interestingly they nearly managed to torch a large amount of Calafornia it was only luck that stopped it.
MAGUIRE93
High Angle Hell
+182|6196|Schofield Barracks

d3v1ldr1v3r13 wrote:

We wont fall, just stagger, and get right back on track.  We always have and always will.
yea sounds about right
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6407|North Carolina
If America falls, it will be from within.  We've been taking some major risks financially in our spend now, budget later attitude.  Eventually, most of the world's trade will switch to the Euro if we keep this up.  When that happens, we are fucked.
V1king
Member
+10|6156|Land of crocs and cane toads

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

We wont fall... we adapt and survive...  If the US was gone the world would collapse... fact
Really now?  I think most countries have a similar outlook.

You're not Nostradamas by any chance?   

It's an attitude like this that the world is so full of issues.  I could say the same thing about Australia whereas, you don't get the benefits of our mining industry, you would collapse.  Of course, that is not true but that's how it sounds looking from my perspective.  Just remember, when you're at the top, the only way is down.  It's just a matter of when.

BTW.....7% of your economy is owned by Saudi Arabia.  Who knows how many other countries have a stake in your economy.  If they were to pull out there investments, you would go into a meltdown.

Last edited by V1king (2007-07-07 09:49:13)

xXCortoMalteseXx
Member
+11|6153|Some Pub in Valletta

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

We wont fall... we adapt and survive...  If the US was gone the world would collapse... fact
Not fully behind on that "fact"

The world would simply be different...

Last edited by xXCortoMalteseXx (2007-07-07 09:50:08)

Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6185|Ireland

joker8baller wrote:

10 years. Give or take 3.
I concur
Smithereener
Member
+138|6317|California

sfarrar33 wrote:

Hunter/Jumper wrote:

If any Major power wants to start some nonsense and have a real war. We could use all our resourses in a total  TOTAL WAR .

Better countries have tried. It would be a mistake to think any country could take on the U.S.A.
erm such as?
The only one i can think of was Japan, and interestingly they nearly managed to torch a large amount of Calafornia it was only luck that stopped it.
??
Japan invading California? Don't think it ever happened. Maybe you mean Pearl Harbor in Oahu, Hawaii. Even then, we still managed to beat them. (Partially because our carrier groups were elsewhere when we were attacked at Pearl Harbor)
blademaster
I'm moving to Brazil
+2,075|6647

Lotta_Drool wrote:

joker8baller wrote:

10 years. Give or take 3.
I concur
U.S. is a tough cookie I dont think it will go down easy, but if it goes down it might take other countries down with them
Noobeater
Northern numpty
+194|6449|Boulder, CO

Smithereener wrote:

sfarrar33 wrote:

Hunter/Jumper wrote:

If any Major power wants to start some nonsense and have a real war. We could use all our resourses in a total  TOTAL WAR .

Better countries have tried. It would be a mistake to think any country could take on the U.S.A.
erm such as?
The only one i can think of was Japan, and interestingly they nearly managed to torch a large amount of Calafornia it was only luck that stopped it.
??
Japan invading California? Don't think it ever happened. Maybe you mean Pearl Harbor in Oahu, Hawaii. Even then, we still managed to beat them. (Partially because our carrier groups were elsewhere when we were attacked at Pearl Harbor)
No he means after pearl harbour when the japenese had plans to bomb the hell out of california, i can't remember anything else about it though due to it being 1:44 am so night.
Smithereener
Member
+138|6317|California

Noobeater wrote:

Smithereener wrote:

sfarrar33 wrote:


erm such as?
The only one i can think of was Japan, and interestingly they nearly managed to torch a large amount of Calafornia it was only luck that stopped it.
??
Japan invading California? Don't think it ever happened. Maybe you mean Pearl Harbor in Oahu, Hawaii. Even then, we still managed to beat them. (Partially because our carrier groups were elsewhere when we were attacked at Pearl Harbor)
No he means after pearl harbour when the japenese had plans to bomb the hell out of california, i can't remember anything else about it though due to it being 1:44 am so night.
Ooh. That makes more sense. Except it never happened. Got the government paranoid enough to send them to internment camps though.
CloakedStarship
Member
+76|6567
All good things must come to an end.  IMO, the U.S. is a good thing.  Its only a matter of time, maybe it will be a disaster and the world will plunge into war, or maybe it will be consolidated into a peaceful world government.  I would hope it is the latter, but as a pessimist.. I just don't see it ending that way.

Romans lasted what, a thousand years?  After 200, i think the U.S. still has some kick in it, I don't think it will end in my lifetime.
Hallvard
Member
+262|6524|North Norway

Smithereener wrote:

Noobeater wrote:

Smithereener wrote:


??
Japan invading California? Don't think it ever happened. Maybe you mean Pearl Harbor in Oahu, Hawaii. Even then, we still managed to beat them. (Partially because our carrier groups were elsewhere when we were attacked at Pearl Harbor)
No he means after pearl harbour when the japenese had plans to bomb the hell out of california, i can't remember anything else about it though due to it being 1:44 am so night.
Ooh. That makes more sense. Except it never happened. Got the government paranoid enough to send them to internment camps though.
There was a German submarine on it's way to Japan with some Uran that was supposed to be put in bombs and droped over USA... but the submarine surrendered some time after Germany fell after ignoring many commands to return to Germany... Japan had the tecnology to make nuclear weapons, but not the materials needed...
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6407|North Carolina

rdx-fx wrote:

The danger to America is NOT from the economic or military might of any outside power.
The danger is within our own citizens, who seem more and more to lack the conviction/motivation/integrity/dedication to believe that the principles on which this nation was founded are worth defending.

In other words, we are rotting from within.  The damn Emo McKids have no principles, have nothing they believe in standing up for (much less risking their life for).. and the damn Baby Boomers are on a mad race to burn through every available resource before they keel over - leaving nothing but a dried burnt husk of a planet when they die, posterity be damned..
I'd say it's a systemic thing.  It's not what the average person does or thinks that screws us up.  It's the lack of quality in our leadership.

We have highly corrupt people so firmly entrenched in our government that nothing short of a revolution will really put things right.  These people I speak of are mostly lobbyists and their benefactors, corporate powermongers, and paranoid warmongers.  Basically, an elite corporate and lobbyist culture runs our government.  Elections are mostly for show, because this culture decides who the candidates are for the most part.  Everyone has a price, and they go the extra mile to buy them.

What is truly appalling, however, is that so many people in government are a part of big business, and yet, they're extremely bad at budgeting.  I guess it's easier for them to spend our money than it is to spend their own.
killer21
Because f*ck you that's why.
+400|6592|Reisterstown, MD

In all honesty, if we didn't have the limitations on only having a president for 2 four year terms, I firmly believe that George W. Bush would be the ultimate downfall of the U.S.  Just too many things have gone wrong on his watch.  Some he isn't really responsible for but a lot of it he is.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6407|North Carolina

rdx-fx wrote:

I'd think the systemic problem you mentioned is not just that such people are entrenched in our governments fringes - it's that it's the way America does business in general.  It's no longer about putting out a quality product, it's about making a fast buck for the shareholders.  It's the profit now, screw the future, screw standing behind our product, screw the customer mentality. 

As a comparison, look at the "profits for shareholder" driven US Automotive industry - then look at the "make a quality product, and the customers will come" Japanese and (especially) German Automotive industry.

Such a shareholder, profit now mentality is rampant in US business, and, as such, is rampant in the lobbyists (employed by such businesses) courting the government.
VERY good analogy.  That's an angle to it I hadn't thought of much, but it makes a lot of sense.

I wonder if there's any way to end that....
Paco_the_Insane
Phorum Phantom
+244|6646|Ohio
hopefully not sooner than 250-300 years, so im not still alive to see it happen.
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|6763

When I say so.
G3|Genius
Pope of BF2s
+355|6628|Sea to globally-cooled sea
when will the U.S. Fall?

Long after the rest of your sorry countries
BeerzGod
Hooray Beer!
+94|6572|United States

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

We wont fall... we adapt and survive...  If the US was gone the world would collapse... fact
Couldn't have been said any better than this. Absolute fact.

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