BF2S Forums Why are Americans so obsessed with People obsessed with America?

Bertster7 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

That's not entirely fair. The US had a go in Somalia and lots of countries off that list. The Korean war they helped the South Koreans not get invaded by that brutal dictatorship to their North.

My thoughts are they shouldn't have. That was a regional issue for Koreans to iron out. Going into Somalia? Well let's just say they didn't last long and for good reason. 'The west' needs to stop intervening militarily outside of 'the west'.

I'd mostly agree.

Not about the Korean war though. South Korea is a decent, productive, democratic state - which it wouldn't have been otherwise. I'd say it's an excellent example of how American intervention has worked well. I'm all for intervening in international conflicts, it's domestic issues that should be left well alone. If one country decides to invade another, that's not on. Someone needs to look out for smaller countries, like the US is keeping an eye on Taiwan.

I think there is a very important distinction between intervening in international conflicts and domestic conflicts and no one should ever be intervening in domestic stuff. But it is against international law to invade other countries, in general. I feel that should be enforced.

Agreed.
Thanks to America, South Korea is very wealthy now.

Thank you America and happy Independence Day.

If only you guys dropped an atom bomb on the capital of North Korea..... then there would be just Republic of Korea.

Last edited by thtthht (2007-07-04 17:22:55)

Gee, here's a thought. Maybe the resentment isn't in spite of what America has done for other nations, but because what it does always seems to come with strings attached. America, both government and citizens, sometimes act like the friend who only ever does anything for you not because they care, or because they like you, or because it's the right thing, but because it means you'll owe them. How many times have we all heard, in regards to the nations of Europe "You'd all be speaking German now if it wasn't for us!" whenever someone from Europe criticizes the US? You know, as if somehow the United States' participation in WWII means that no one from Europe can ever speak ill of the US ever again. "Ooooh, those damn Europeans are saying mean things about us!", big fucking deal. What's the solution, be petty and small in return, or be the better people? Either way, spare us the fucking whining about how under appreciated America is in the world. Maybe if our benevolence wasn't almost always conditional or it wasn't thrown back in the faces of those who received it after the fact, or used to mask something underhanded that the US government was up to, people of other nations might have a better view of the US.

CameronPoe wrote:

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

I rarely hear people crying out 'America save us'. The last time was in 1939. It then took the US a couple of years (and of course the Pearl Harbour incident) to get up off their arses. Having said that: GG USA in WWII. Much appreciated.

OMG..what a short memory...this is a classic example of hate blinding people. You are so focused on the negatives that you fail to even remember anything recent. There is A LOT of short term memories here and VERY LARGE blinders. Just like Slim said above....we are always the first to be asked for help and the first to offer it. We give more to charity and aide than any country in the world but of course you fail to see or remember that.

YOU ARE NOT 'THE FIRST TO GET ASKED' - you're blinded yourself in that regard. You guys believe the US is some knight in shining armour! The west as a whole gets appealed to. You give less to charity per capita than most western countries I might add - not to belittle the good will and generosity of the US when it comes to aid, the US is very generous.

By the way DBY - if you think it's just three or four posters on a forum then you're way off. If you haven't left the US recently then I can tell you that goodwill towards the US is at a global all-time low. Mainly thanks to G.W. Bush.

Oh great, so no one is out there saying "America save us" yet "the US gives less to charity per capita than most western countries"?

Make up you mind - is it "give us more money" or "we're okay, so don't help us"?

Pug wrote:

Oh great, so no one is out there saying "America save us" yet "the US gives less to charity per capita than most western countries"?

Make up you mind - is it "give us more money" or "we're okay, so don't help us"?

Actually it looks a lot more like a refutation of the previously made statement about the US giving more to charity and aid of other countries than anyone else. Simply put, Cam was calling bullshit on it, not saying "give us more money" or "we're okay, so don't help us" but "quit trying to lord it over everyone, you aren't the only people who help or the people who help the most". As I said before you spewed a bunch of non-sequiturs at me, sometimes the US seems to only do good for gain. People notice it. It bugs them. It bugs them more when the US then turns around and says "Look at all the good we do! LOOK DAMN YOU!!!" every time someone engages in legitimate criticism of US policy.

One Word: Chinese Food

The_Mac wrote:

So yes, a lot of incompetence was present, but it was not just that of Bush, but of the governor of Louisiana and mayor of New Orleans.

Fixed that for ya.

Blanco fucked up by not allowing the Guard in to begin relief efforts. Nagin fucked up further by not directing the resources that were on-hand properly. Bush fucked up by appointing a godsdamn horse breeder as the head of FEMA. The police in New Orleans fucked up by either abandoning their posts or using the chaos as an excuse to engage in general fuckwittery like ordering people back into the disaster area at gunpoint while taking their food and water and shooting people for no good fucking reason. The media fucked up by repeatedly latching onto bogus stories that made the people of New Orleans out to be bestial subhumans who deserved to be drowned like rats. Loads of other people fucked up by sending the refugees from Katrina all over the fucking country, separating them from family members, many times stranding them in places where they have no family, no friends and no way to get back to their life. And all this time later, the fuckups continue. Nagin wants to make the "new" New Orleans into a "market driven" city (impressive how the guy can espouse such a pro-business, pro-wealthy ideal and still be considered some kind of pinko commie leftist). He's said that only those who want to work or are capable of working are welcome back (sorry Grandma, it doesn't matter how many generations of your family called NO home, if you can't build hi-rise condos or strip malls, Mayor Nagin thinks you should fuck off). The housing authority in New Orleans has been tearing down homes as quickly as it can while preventing anyone from attempting to reclaim those homes, sometimes resorting to police force to stop them (can't let all that real estate go to waste, eh?). Insurance companies are refusing to fund new construction until the levees are upgraded, preventing people from rebuilding their homes (wanna bet those levees get upgraded when Mayor Nagin's dream of a "market driven New Orleans" becomes real?).

You are partially right about the incompetence but you fail to include all the perpetrators, instead choosing to focus on those on the opposite of the political aisle from you and giving a free pass to those on your side. There were so many failures regarding Katrina that it is impossible to confine responsibility to just one office of government or just one political party. Just about everyone from the word "go" let those people down and allowed them to suffer for political gain or through lack of compassion. Saying "Oho, but X democrat did Y" isn't going to change the reality of it or wipe away what has happened or is happening there.

When someone seems to take a lot of interest or an obsession with something you are a part of, you kind of have a tendency to get kind of sensitive about things. Nobody really likes to hear any kind of negative criticism of these things, especially when the non-constructive ones appear (omg america sucs ballz lol).

As for the idea that the world is obssessed with America, it's merely (IMO) just that America is considered to be the dominant power right now. That cheesy, yet relevant Spiderman quote fits in quite well, "With great power comes great responsibility." The general consensus is that America is the dominant power, therefore we have a lot responsibilities to fulfill. Inevitably, there are going to be the ones that are dissatisfied with what we do and speak against it. And those from the criticized nation then feel the need to defend their nation's actions. I'm willing to assume that in the future, if China becomes the new dominant power, much of this focus will go to them, and pretty soon we'll be seeing a lot of things like this. (Why do Chinese people get so obsessed with People bsessed with China?) It goes along with whoever has the most power.

HunterOfSkulls wrote:

Pug wrote:

Oh great, so no one is out there saying "America save us" yet "the US gives less to charity per capita than most western countries"?

Make up you mind - is it "give us more money" or "we're okay, so don't help us"?

Actually it looks a lot more like a refutation of the previously made statement about the US giving more to charity and aid of other countries than anyone else. Simply put, Cam was calling bullshit on it, not saying "give us more money" or "we're okay, so don't help us" but "quit trying to lord it over everyone, you aren't the only people who help or the people who help the most". As I said before you spewed a bunch of non-sequiturs at me, sometimes the US seems to only do good for gain. People notice it. It bugs them. It bugs them more when the US then turns around and says "Look at all the good we do! LOOK DAMN YOU!!!" every time someone engages in legitimate criticism of US policy.

My first post was a general statement on the topic, not directed at you...looks like you misinterpreted it.

And I perfectly understand where Cam is coming from.  I believe specifically he isn't weighing the entire amount of "help" because he doesn't agree with the breath of the aid, nor all of the aid in its form.  But either you have faith of what is being done is in US interest, or you don't.  It is possible (note: doesn't say "probable") that some of the things that are happening have to be judged years or generations from now.  Take Vietnam for instance.

I'm not delusional, all aid any country provides ALWAYS has strings attached.  Otherwise there would be no aid at all (or negative aid in the form of supporting the other side).

The reason why people are saying "look at all we do" is because I believe people still have faith - otherwise it would be ohh shit we suck balls.  Plus people have the right to provide criticism of US policy, just like people have the right to defend it anyway they wish.  But the fact remains that occassionaly you see some posts like "should we help the US people overthrow the government"?  etc etc etc.  How legitimate is that?

So from time to time, an overtly negative topic comes off different than it's supposed to be.  A possible interpretation of the "well bullshit, the US doesn't give the same charity per capita", is "let's take you assholes down a notch" or "you do not see the negative side, because your patriotism blinds you".

The truth of the matter is, that the US is going to do whatever it wants until its forced to do something else.  Of course, if the US really didn't care about its image, we wouldn't bother sending any aid at all, close all global communications and pretty much be dead air to the world.  And the result of which would be drastic for both the US and abroad. 

And to be honest, 1) we are going to do things which we feel are in our interest, 2) keeping the world happy is important to us, 3) we give a shit about what's being said, 4) things aren't perfect, but they are pretty damn good, 5) there's always going to be something...

Anyone who believe that it's utopia (and no one does) is delusional.  But there's an awful lot of negative debates here...it's tough to throw something out there and get a "what nation are you from again? and why do we care?", yet the post is there...so we do care...

I challenge you to think of ANY foreign aid from ANY country that doesn't have strings attached.
I also challenge you to think of a nation with a foreign policy that ISN'T using this policy for the benefit of its citizens.

CameronPoe wrote:

Superslim wrote:

PS. I live in CANADA. The US is our best friend, greatest neighbor and awesome ally. You shit on my friends, you shit on me, and thats not a good thing.

Why? What has the US done for Canada recently? I would hope they're nice to you - they're your neighbours ffs.

Are you implying that they should do something? Why would you say that? And what should they do??

(T)eflon(S)hadow wrote:

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What the fuck are you guys going to discuss after President George Walker Bush, leaves office?          57ut 7h3 9huck u9 ALREADY!
















To give you something to talk about...  Your life with out America for the last 104 years would be nothing like it is, without US. And for the next millenia it wont be either! We all breath the same air, stop trying to knock us down just because we are at the top. Accept it. I dont believe it make US any better than any other country , its just the blessed way it is, for now. It wont always be. Now can you just let it go>?

What the fuck have the Wright brothers to do with your obsession with criticism of GWB and his government?

Superslim wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Superslim wrote:

PS. I live in CANADA. The US is our best friend, greatest neighbor and awesome ally. You shit on my friends, you shit on me, and thats not a good thing.

Why? What has the US done for Canada recently? I would hope they're nice to you - they're your neighbours ffs.

Are you implying that they should do something? Why would you say that? And what should they do??

No I'm not - I'm just baffled that you call the US your 'best friend' and 'awesome ally' when their most outstanding achievement in relation to Canada is that they are geographically close to Canada. Let's not forget they tried to take Canada back in 1812. Perhaps history isn't your strong point...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812

CameronPoe wrote:

Superslim wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Why? What has the US done for Canada recently? I would hope they're nice to you - they're your neighbours ffs.

Are you implying that they should do something? Why would you say that? And what should they do??

No I'm not - I'm just baffled that you call the US your 'best friend' and 'awesome ally' when their most outstanding achievement in relation to Canada is that they are geographically close to Canada. Let's not forget they tried to take Canada back in 1812. Perhaps history isn't your strong point...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812

You forgot to mention the US steals all the good comedians from Canada.