BF2S Forums Muslim Group Denounces Bombings

Mekstizzle wrote:

Miller wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

People here always are claiming: ALL Muslims are terrorists; no one in the Muslim community speaks out against terrorism.

Wrong. My best friend at school is Muslim. Don't start stereotyping when you yourself are condemning it.

I'll admit i was shocked when I read this post

---

Anyway, they don't do enough. The normal Muslims that is. They're always complaining about this or that being regulated as it offends them, instead of tackling the real problem in their own yard (terrorism).

How do you know they aren't? For all we know, 99% of all mosques give lectures denouncing this at every meeting. What else are they supposed to do, coordinate airstrikes or commando raids against training camps? Many muslims speak out againt terrorists frequently.

buLLet_t00th wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

buLLet_t00th wrote:

This doesn't help the situation.......

http://www.standwithus.com/gallery/cart … rotest.jpg

Especially when the Muslim Council of Britain didn't do much to stop it.

Are they classed as extremists, or just Muslims with nothing better to do than live of benefits?

I'm pretty sure you could classify a guy with a sign that reads, "Slay those who insult Islam" as an extremist.

But not all of them have signs.....does that make only the ones who have the ability to make signs extremist?

Do you need me to hold your hand as I accompany you to Kindergarten?

m3thod wrote:

more

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6261988.stm

"Also we need to look at the root causes of terrorism to eliminate this dangerous threat as indeed there are many factors why this may be taking place."

"To top all this, the foreign policy of this country targets my fellow Muslim brothers and sisters in Iraq and Afghanistan to mention a few."

"Foreign policy is a contributing factor to Britain being an increased risk. That's not my view, that's the view expressed by senior politicians across the board."

"It is disgusting. Why would anybody want to hurt innocent lives and endanger innocent people, surely the West is one of the few places where people from all cultures are accepted, welcomed and can live their lives in any way which they please."

"And conceivably there's only two things that we can do - the first is to make it clear that there's no theological justification for any of this, and we've been doing that for years and will continue to do so"

"There is never any justification for killing innocent human beings, yet myself and my husband suffer verbal abuse from ignorant people who wish to paint all Muslims with the same brush."

buLLet_t00th wrote:

TheDarkRaven wrote:

buLLet_t00th wrote:

But not all of them have signs.....does that make only the ones who have the ability to make signs extremist?

See my above (and very long) post.

Or just read this excerpt:

I wrote:

Oh, and it is illegal by the laws of Islam (Allah's command and will) to commit suicide. Suicide bombings are ridiculously stupid, and they claim they are Muslims, but they have abandoned the core principles of Islam. I'd call them 'free radicals', rather than Muslims. They don't really have a recognised religion. Islam itself is related to the word for 'peace' in Arabic, and is founded on this basis.

Those signs weren't about suicide bombings, they were just your general beheading type.

I know, but they still don't follow the laws of Islam... just go and read my post about Jihad on page 1!

Im_Dooomed wrote:

TheDarkRaven wrote:

Or just read this excerpt:

I wrote:

Oh, and it is illegal by the laws of Islam (Allah's command and will) to commit suicide. Suicide bombings are ridiculously stupid, and they claim they are Muslims, but they have abandoned the core principles of Islam. I'd call them 'free radicals', rather than Muslims. They don't really have a recognised religion. Islam itself is related to the word for 'peace' in Arabic, and is founded on this basis.

Thanks for translating that part of the Koran for me. I always wondered

You're welcome. My [very] limited knowledge of Arabic cannot get me far in this world. My friends help me with a lot of it.

Last edited by TheDarkRaven (2007-07-03 11:07:16)

topal63 wrote:

buLLet_t00th wrote:

This doesn't help the situation.......

http://www.standwithus.com/gallery/cart … rotest.jpg

Especially when the Muslim Council of Britain didn't do much to stop it.

Are they classed as extremists, or just Muslims with nothing better to do than live of benefits?

Nope - it surely doesn't.

Nor does this:
Muslim world inflamed by Rushdie knighthood
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/commen … 951462.ece
"Eighteen years after the Ayatollah Khomeini issued a fatwa calling on Muslims to kill him, a government minister in Pakistan said yesterday that Rushdie’s recent knighthood justified suicide bombing."

You know, I tried to read Satanic Verses when I was in high school.  I found the actual imagery and story pretty well told, but I thought the plot itself was bland.  It almost felt forced.

buLLet_t00th wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

topal63 wrote:

Nope - it surely doesn't.

Nor does this:
Muslim world inflamed by Rushdie knighthood
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/commen … 951462.ece
"Eighteen years after the Ayatollah Khomeini issued a fatwa calling on Muslims to kill him, a government minister in Pakistan said yesterday that Rushdie’s recent knighthood justified suicide bombing."

You know, I tried to read Satanic Verses when I was in high school.  I found the actual imagery and story pretty well told, but I thought the plot itself was bland.  It almost felt forced.

Which view are you coming from with that, against the 'forced stories' that we are putting across or against the 'forced stories' of the 'oppressed' Muslim/Islamic world?

Its coming from the "I thought the author poorly conveyed the plot line despite the use of vivid imagery and a good backstory" view.

Bertster7 wrote:

We've had a lot of these threads. Lots of Muslims speak out against terrorism, all the time in fact.

They just don't show it on FOX, so most of the Neo-Con crowd don't realise.

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pi … 8#p1147988

[google]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3109282756849112570[/google]

rawls2 wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

People here always are claiming: ALL Muslims are terrorists; no one in the Muslim community speaks out against terrorism; I am too lazy to look up any information on the topic so I think all Muslims hate everyone; blah blah blah...it really is ignorant and rubbish.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070703/wl … ksreligion

For the people too intelligent to click the link:

"Those who seek to deliberately kill or maim innocent people are the enemies of us all," said Dr Muhammad Abdul Bari, secretary-general of the moderate Muslim Council of Britain."

"Speaking at a news conference at the MCB's east London headquarters, Bari said there was "no cause whatsoever" to justify the attempted bomb attacks in central London early Friday and at Glasgow airport on Saturday afternoon."

"Those who engage in such murderous actions and those that provide support for them are the enemies of us all, Muslims and non-Muslims, and they stand against our shared values in the United Kingdom," he added.

Bari and his deputy Daud Abdullah expressed their shock that up to six of the eight people in custody were medical doctors.

"As we have stated in the past, terrorism is not a regional nor a national matter. Neither does it have a profession or class,"Abdullah told AFP as the MCB called on all Britons to help the police and the security services.

So much for the "Islamic Republic of the UK".

This is the same as a Corporation doing wrong then sending out the mailroom grunt to apologize. Sorry, not enough.

No, it's absolutely nothing like that. But since you seem to like to put things into analogy's, a better one might be it's like McDonalds apologising because one of it's employees killed some people whilst wearing a McD's shirt.

Last edited by ghettoperson (2007-07-03 11:30:17)

topal63 wrote:

buLLet_t00th wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

You know, I tried to read Satanic Verses when I was in high school.  I found the actual imagery and story pretty well told, but I thought the plot itself was bland.  It almost felt forced.

Which view are you coming from with that, against the 'forced stories' that we are putting across or against the 'forced stories' of the 'oppressed' Muslim/Islamic world?

The reality (IMO) is that there is far more violent nonsense and language being effortlessly offered up in group-think arenas. There is very little real opposition to the violent edicts that seem never ending and uniquely Muslim.

Another (IMO) is that like any other religion, the Muslim faith, fails to intrepret itself - when it applies the meaning of the spiritual inward world to the outer world. Jihad is merely the war against self and the spiritual re-birth through symbolic self-ego-death.

And the fact that there are so many different groups that call themselves Muslims or followers of Islam, there isn't one congregation like Catholics (I know this is generalising) that have one Religious leader telling them what they can and cannot do.

It seems to be that Muslim leaders or figure heads in Islamic focused countries aren't actually bothered in getting the groups together or just tolerating eachother, but are more focused in being portrayed as the 'strongest' and maybe are more interested in the 'fame' and the riches that come about as being top dog.

Miller wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

People here always are claiming: ALL Muslims are terrorists; no one in the Muslim community speaks out against terrorism.

Wrong. My best friend at school is Muslim. Don't start stereotyping when you yourself are condemning it.

Yes...ken did just what he complained about.

Any Muslim who denounces and who publicily dissaproves of terrorists actions is an upstanding citizen and deserves there place in Britain/America etc

I used to be married to a Muslim woman and lived and interacted with Muslims that became part of my family as well as friends made from this family connection. I have experience first hand on how a moderate Muslim reacts to some of these things that have happened. She, of course, is offended by so-called radical Muslims using her religion to kill. She never really felt obligated to defend her religion but one thing I did learn was that there was a lot of fear in speaking out against these groups especially from her place of origin. She wasn't in fear here in America,,,she always felt totally free to practice her religion. She always felt like a weight had been lifted when she came to America. The strictness, people watching and threatening aren't around here.

Now when she and her family were back home. She had to be careful about speaking out or speaking negative against the radical groups. It was very similar to the KGB in Russia during the height of communism...you had to be careful about speaking out because you just didn't know who to trust. She and her family members have been threatened with bodily harm. How were they threatened....pamphlets were handed out in the streets warning people to stay out of clubs, movie theaters, restaurants like McDonald's or KFC. They were threatened with harm if they were caught inside. Movie theaters were trashed and burned so they couldn't be opened to the public. There was a shroud of fear for normal Muslims coming from the radical side on almost a daily basis.

In a way, your thread is correct. People do speak out from countries where they feel free and not threatened. But put them back into their hometown or in environments like where my wife came from and they definitely DO NOT speak up and against terrorists for fear of their own lives...Literally. Don't generalize and bring up Neo-cons when the fact is that most Muslims who live among this oppression do not speak out....it has nothing to do with Neo-cons...etc.. and don't kid yourself into believing that just because some people speak out from countries like America or Britain or a country where a Muslim can practice his/ her religion that it happens everywhere because it doesn't. It most cases they don't speak out....they can't!

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

topal63 wrote:

Exploring support for terrorism (14 countries sampled):
http://www.usip.org/pubs/working_papers/wp1.pdf

Al Qaeda Today: The New Face of the Global Jihad:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline … today.html

Haven't read all of the first one (52 pages) but the second link makes some interesting observations, some rather enlightening (to me at least).  Interesting to know that the terrorists he studied largely came from upper-middle class families and were on average more intelligent/more learned than I thought.  After reading the article, I can see a correlation with the largely middle-class counter-culture here (Marilyn Manson, Goth music, trench-coat mafia) and 'terrorist' culture abroad.

I also thought it interesting that he (the author) makes the observation that Al-Qaeda is dead in the sense that there is not a large, structured organization, largely because of the invasion of Afghanistan.  He further argues that we (the public) should probably be more worried about 'sophisticated' attacks largely lacking any large-scale planning due to the fact that Al-Qaeda is "operationally dead".

""It should be an idea-based war as opposed to a military-based war," he says. "The people [that] are still active terrorists need to be captured or killed, but," he warns, "that is the easy task. The much more difficult task is preventing a future generation from joining this violent terrorist movement, and doing more damage."

I'll get around to reading the first link through when I get home from work.

Oh the irony(!)... from the article:

"Al Qaeda is really a social movement," he explains. "People think of it as a hierarchical organization, like a military organization, but it was never that. It was always a network, like a peace movement, ..."

And from page 28 of the (draft) report:

Isn't it odd to find and association of terrorism with freedom (free expression).

Last edited by topal63 (2007-07-03 12:48:33)