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2007-07-01 09:02:21
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6940|San Diego, CA, USA
What terrorist attack has not been affiliated with a Mosque in some way? 

Are terrorists using 'Religious' freedom afforded by western countries to garner support for their extremism?

Looks like we are now fighting the 2nd generation of terrorists who are now naturalized.


EDIT: BTW, if Christians were doing terrorism I would support the government monitoring churches.

Last edited by Harmor (2007-07-01 09:03:03)

2007-07-01 09:06:08
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6940|San Diego, CA, USA
I'm not trying to insult their religion.  I'm trying to suggest ways to protect innocent civilians from their extremist members.
2007-07-01 09:08:17
TheDarkRaven
ATG's First Disciple
+263|7016|Birmingham, UK

Harmor wrote:

I'm not trying to insult their religion.  I'm trying to suggest ways to protect innocent civilians from their extremist members.
And every religion has extremist members. It's one of the products of religion. Why don't we monitor everything about everyone's lives, create a wonderfully desolate dystopia and start living in 1984? Would that make you happy?

Last edited by TheDarkRaven (2007-07-01 09:08:28)

2007-07-01 09:08:30
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6797|North Carolina

Harmor wrote:

I'm not trying to insult their religion.  I'm trying to suggest ways to protect innocent civilians from their extremist members.
Your suggestion and Poe's are basically the same.  In a way, I agree.  It's a tough call.
2007-07-01 09:10:33
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6797|North Carolina

TheDarkRaven wrote:

Harmor wrote:

I'm not trying to insult their religion.  I'm trying to suggest ways to protect innocent civilians from their extremist members.
And every religion has extremist members. It's one of the products of religion. Why don't we monitor everything about everyone's lives, create a wonderfully desolate dystopia and start living in 1984? Would that make you happy?
You have to admit that recent events have certainly made it more likely for Mosques to be centers of extremist activity as opposed to most other houses of worship.

Again, I don't like big government either, but it's not an easy call to make.
2007-07-01 09:10:49
KylieTastic
Games, Girls, Guinness
+85|6844|Cambridge, UK

So did you just read CameronPoe's new thread http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=79139 and think "oh no Christians dont do terror or anything bad, I'll just re-post the idea targeted at those we know are terrorists....."
2007-07-01 09:12:52
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6797|North Carolina

KylieTastic wrote:

So did you just read CameronPoe's new thread http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=79139 and think "oh no Christians dont do terror or anything bad, I'll just re-post the idea targeted at those we know are terrorists....."
...if the shoe fits....
2007-07-01 09:16:18
d4rkst4r
biggie smalls
+72|6845|Ontario, Canada
Not all Muslims are terrorists, but a majority of terrorist are Muslims.
"you know life is what we make it, and a chance is like a picture, it'd be nice if you just take it"
2007-07-01 09:17:41
TheDarkRaven
ATG's First Disciple
+263|7016|Birmingham, UK

d4rkst4r wrote:

Not all Muslims are terrorists, but a majority of terrorist are Muslims.
They claim they are Muslims, but they have abandoned the core principles of Islam. I'd call them 'free radicals', rather than Muslims. They don't really have a recognised religion.
2007-07-01 09:20:53
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6797|North Carolina

TheDarkRaven wrote:

d4rkst4r wrote:

Not all Muslims are terrorists, but a majority of terrorist are Muslims.
They claim they are Muslims, but they have abandoned the core principles of Islam. I'd call them 'free radicals', rather than Muslims. They don't really have a recognised religion.
Agreed, but Muslims are the people they try to recruit.  Sadly, they're often successful.

Admittedly, what I've read seems to suggest that Islam itself is not the problem -- it's the brutal pre-Islamic customs that many Muslims follow that are.  Ironically, Mohammed himself began his religion as a rebellion against much of these things, but sadly (like so many other followers of religion), they lost their way.  A lot of these so-called Muslims seem to believe more in Islamism than in actual Islam.
2007-07-01 09:31:14
KylieTastic
Games, Girls, Guinness
+85|6844|Cambridge, UK

Turquoise wrote:

KylieTastic wrote:

So did you just read CameronPoe's new thread http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=79139 and think "oh no Christians dont do terror or anything bad, I'll just re-post the idea targeted at those we know are terrorists....."
...if the shoe fits....
but if you don't monitor everybody the same (as per CameronPoe's thread) and use the reason "your more likely to find terrorists in Mosques than Churchs", then you cant be surprised when the decent law abiding Muslims say "not all Mosques have terrorists just a few radical ones", then those Mosque say "hey were not all bad in this one don't monitor me just the Terrorists in that back room...."

Also if you just monitored Mosques then you now have more terrorists because the young Muslims would feel persecuted in there own country....
... just image if the government said they were going to monitor Churchs not Mosques (but I guess that would have to be for pedo priests instead of terrorists)
2007-07-01 09:35:49
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6797|North Carolina

KylieTastic wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

KylieTastic wrote:

So did you just read CameronPoe's new thread http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=79139 and think "oh no Christians dont do terror or anything bad, I'll just re-post the idea targeted at those we know are terrorists....."
...if the shoe fits....
but if you don't monitor everybody the same (as per CameronPoe's thread) and use the reason "your more likely to find terrorists in Mosques than Churchs", then you cant be surprised when the decent law abiding Muslims say "not all Mosques have terrorists just a few radical ones", then those Mosque say "hey were not all bad in this one don't monitor me just the Terrorists in that back room...."

Also if you just monitored Mosques then you now have more terrorists because the young Muslims would feel persecuted in there own country....
... just image if the government said they were going to monitor Churchs not Mosques (but I guess that would have to be for pedo priests instead of terrorists)
True...  this is why I'm still on the fence about this.  It really is a tough choice.

I guess the point of contention is whether or not this would really make us safer.  Would such surveillance thwart more terror plots than it would create?  I think that ultimately should be what determines the merit of this policy.  Unfortunately, it's hard to get a grasp on this without actually implementing this policy.

By chance, does the U.K. do anything like this?
2007-07-01 09:36:09
TheDarkRaven
ATG's First Disciple
+263|7016|Birmingham, UK

Turquoise wrote:

TheDarkRaven wrote:

d4rkst4r wrote:

Not all Muslims are terrorists, but a majority of terrorist are Muslims.
They claim they are Muslims, but they have abandoned the core principles of Islam. I'd call them 'free radicals', rather than Muslims. They don't really have a recognised religion.
Agreed, but Muslims are the people they try to recruit.  Sadly, they're often successful.

Admittedly, what I've read seems to suggest that Islam itself is not the problem -- it's the brutal pre-Islamic customs that many Muslims follow that are.  Ironically, Mohammed himself began his religion as a rebellion against much of these things, but sadly (like so many other followers of religion), they lost their way.  A lot of these so-called Muslims seem to believe more in Islamism than in actual Islam.
Quite so. Islam itself is related to the word for 'peace' in Arabic, and is founded on this basis.
Many of you may have heard of 'Jihad', but not know the concept of it.

Jihad
It is the personal struggle of every Muslim to follow the teachings of Islam and to resist and reject evil. It literally means 'striving' or 'trying your best possible'. This may include a physical battle against enemies of Islam & a willingness to accept martyrdom as the ultimate submission to the will of Allah. However, physical fighting is not the meaning of Jihad. Jihad is mainly the lifestyle following the example of Muhammad [peace be upon him] in good conduct and the struggle against evil. The aim of Jihad is to establish the Islamic system of life in order to fulfil the will of Allah and gain the favour of Allah.
Muslims are not pacifists (or they wouldn't exist today), but believe that all ways of solving disputes should be tried before resorting to physical violence. Muhammad [peace be upon him] taught his followers that Muslims should defend Islam and guided them into battle for their beliefs. However, Islam is a practical religion and there are rules that must be adhered to before going to war & it must ensure that the conduct of the conflict is acceptable to Allah.

  • War is declared by a political, rather than religious, leader
  • An individual declares war without the support of the Muslim community (Ummah)
  • The war is aggressive, not defensive
  • The purpose is to gain land or power.


~

It must be noted that the reasons for a war not being a Jihad are extremely perspective and opinion based.
2007-07-01 09:40:59
Skorpy-chan
Member
+127|6737|Twyford, UK
Monitoring the christian fundies first is a better idea.
2007-07-01 09:41:16
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6797|North Carolina

TheDarkRaven wrote:

It must be noted that the reasons for a war not being a Jihad are extremely perspective and opinion based.
That perspective part seems to be the problem.  Just having a part of your religion in support of war is rather bothersome in my opinion.....

Last edited by Turquoise (2007-07-01 09:42:33)

2007-07-01 09:47:55
KylieTastic
Games, Girls, Guinness
+85|6844|Cambridge, UK

Turquoise wrote:

I guess the point of contention is whether or not this would really make us safer.  Would such surveillance thwart more terror plots than it would create?  I think that ultimately should be what determines the merit of this policy.  Unfortunately, it's hard to get a grasp on this without actually implementing this policy.
If you monitor people by government policy they would just move from the Mosques to another place to 'plot'.... and probably then be even more difficult to infiltrate and monitor covertly

Turquoise wrote:

By chance, does the U.K. do anything like this?
Not officially... but then there are MI5 and MI6
2007-07-01 11:13:14
Fen321
Member
+54|6889|Singularity

Harmor wrote:

What terrorist attack has not been affiliated with a Masque in some way? 

Are terrorists using 'Religious' freedom afforded by western countries to garner support for their extremism?

Looks like we are now fighting the 2nd generation of terrorists who are now naturalized.


EDIT: BTW, if Christians were doing terrorism I would support the government monitoring churches.
What exactly do you mean by monitor?

Last I checked this is a clear violation of our constitution. Seriously....read it.
2007-07-01 11:43:20
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6940|San Diego, CA, USA

Fen321 wrote:

What exactly do you mean by monitor?

Last I checked this is a clear violation of our constitution. Seriously....read it.
Listen into what the preachers are saying during a surmon.  Do background checks on the people going to a Mosque.  Do they have any ties to Wahabi Islamists in other countries?  Are they are on any terrorist watch lists in this country, others?  Are they wanted?  Are they talking about blowing up innocent civilians?


I think alot of people are going to die if we are PC about this.  How many explosions is it going to take before we have to do something like this?



EDIT: Just because the latest round of terrorist attacks didn't succeed doesn't mean they won't keep on trying until they surpass 9/11.

Last edited by Harmor (2007-07-01 11:44:39)

2007-07-01 12:05:46
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7098|67.222.138.85
Mosque Mosque Mosque Mosque Mosque Mosque Mosque.

And no. We probably have less problems with Muslims in the country than other religions.
2007-07-01 12:12:29
=n0s=Mykeee
Lock Up Your Daughters, The Scottish Have Arrived
+8|6673
Round em up , put em in a field and BOMB THE BASTARDS - sod monitoring them - high power explosives is what we need
2007-07-01 12:13:40
=n0s=Mykeee
Lock Up Your Daughters, The Scottish Have Arrived
+8|6673

Jbrar wrote:

This thread should be closed... just my 2 cents.
Is that Canadian cents, if so isn't that to small an amount to tranfer into real money ?
2007-07-01 14:02:20
HunterOfSkulls
Rated EC-10
+246|6671
Sure, let's just throw freedom of assembly and freedom of association right in the fucking trash.

Let's just forget the fact that before the primitive jackasses overseas got their act together and managed to pull off a job on our soil, the highest body count in a single terrorist act belonged to a white American.

Let's also forget that before those same primitive jackasses overseas got their act together and managed to pull off a job on our soil, our own homegrown violent fucktards have killed enough people on our soil over the past hundred years or so to make those primitive jackasses look like fucking amateurs.

Let's give the government more power to spy on its own citizens, just as long as it's the citizens you think should be spied on. I'm certain that the benevolent and kind US government will never ever abuse that power or expand it to include people like you.

In short, let's generally trash one more important principle limiting government power set down by our Founders and let's do it in the name of fear. And don't forget to scream about political correctness and islamofascists and all that other shit while you're doing it so people focus on the screaming and not on the piss running down your leg.

If I had one wish at this moment, it would be that I had the power to bring Ben Franklin or Thomas Jefferson back from the dead, for the express purpose of letting them slap the stupid out of everybody who thinks it's a good idea to give the government this level of power.
2007-07-01 14:33:40
jonsimon
Member
+224|6887

HunterOfSkulls wrote:

If I had one wish at this moment, it would be that I had the power to bring Ben Franklin or Thomas Jefferson back from the dead, for the express purpose of letting them slap the stupid out of everybody who thinks it's a good idea to give the government this level of power.
Seconded.

Last edited by jonsimon (2007-07-01 14:35:29)

2007-07-01 14:48:10
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6992|132 and Bush

No, lets monitor flight schools in Florida. The ones that have students that take little interest in landing the planes.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2007-07-01 17:05:08
Liberal-Sl@yer
Certified BF2S Asshole
+131|6847|The edge of sanity
it spelles mosque, and not bad for freedom of assimbly.

 

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