I got myself a new Peugot 207 Hdi last week, 1.6l engine 62.7miles to the gallon, £35 quid a year road tax because of its low emmisions. I drive to the Republic to fill my tank though works out a lot cheaper..
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and tehre are also a lot of economists (also known as "the bulls" as opposed to "the bears" that you are talking about) that are discussing that the weakened dollar, while noteworthy, is also good for the economy, as the trade deficit weakens, and allows for greater industrial production to come forth, and the national debt is far from out of control, it's high, yes, but it's actually lower than after WWII (also a boom time), adjusted for inflation and percentage of GDP. Inflation is far from high, high is above 5%, and it's fighting to get above 3%. Inflation is under control, as opposed to the double digit out of control experienced in the 70s. A weak dollar is partial correction for an inflated economy. The doomsayers have it wrong, as they do everytime.Bertster7 wrote:
There are a lot of economists saying that the combination of the weak dollar, fairly high inflation and out of control national debt will have potentially severe long term ramifications for the US.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
Again, I didn't see any doom saying. I saw some one basically quote from a source, but it wasn't doom saying. Is the dollar down? Yes, so that is nothing but a statement of fact. There are worries of inflation, possibly getting worse due to low, and possibly additional decreases, in unemployment. Again, not doom saying. Some of it was fact, some of it nothing more than a standard inflation estimate based on current market conditions.Bertster7 wrote:
Most economists.
No where did I see anything about the US folding up or the world as we know it coming to an end.
I don’t live in a large city like Chicago, Detroit, etc that has a massive public transportation network. My town only has only a very limited bus network. I’d be all for public transportation but it doesn’t stop where I need to go when I need to go there. I’d much rather not pay for gas, maintenance, insurance, but I need a car. The bus doesn’t travel to my parents house 45 minutes away, doesn’t travel to my wife’s employment, and also doesn’t go to my company's training facility 1.5 hours away. So how the heck would I get around? Ride a bike and start out a week ahead of time? I don’t feel like hauling a family’s worth of groceries around in the bus anytime soon, either. Summary: public transportation is a viable alternative only in a very large city.
Gas just went down to $3.09 so I put ¾ tank in for $50 last night. I’m wondering . . . why is my gas price even that high if what you US haters say is true and we’re stealing all the oil in the Mid East? I call bullshit. Hopefully someday we’ll drill more in the Gulf and Alaska and give a big ol’ finger to OPEC. Then they could choke on their oil.
Gas just went down to $3.09 so I put ¾ tank in for $50 last night. I’m wondering . . . why is my gas price even that high if what you US haters say is true and we’re stealing all the oil in the Mid East? I call bullshit. Hopefully someday we’ll drill more in the Gulf and Alaska and give a big ol’ finger to OPEC. Then they could choke on their oil.
Pff, people have said this with different prices all along. It'll take a 1973 OPEC embargo-like situation every half-decade or a psychology shift before we change driving patterns.
I hope we're there for some reason.Stingray24 wrote:
I’m wondering . . . why is my gas price even that high if what you US haters say is true and we’re stealing all the oil in the Mid East? I call bullshit.
Well, public transport usually works in cities, for commuters that's no real alternative. Though it really isn't that bad: I've been talking with a manager of AVL (the optimize engines for BMWs) and he told me that their engines are basically filtering the air, with close to none particles exiting (way fewer than you've got in a room with one lit candle) the exhaust. Of course carbon dioxide and other gasses don't really help our environment to flourish, but I certainly won't go into this discussion any deeper.
Oh and one thing gives me the creeps: Why can't we just use the international system of litres and kilometres? Also, "MPG" is something I can't really understand cause that's like - oh, I'm going 73 miles, that's erhh... 4,56 Gallons with my car. In fact, mathematically it's gallons per mile or litres/kilometre as the kilometre is the defined value (which you probably have to go at almost any cost) and the litres are variables
As for the $5 per gallon - seriously what's the problem with that? that's $1.32 per litre which is about 99 euro-cents. Not much I'd say!
Oh and one thing gives me the creeps: Why can't we just use the international system of litres and kilometres? Also, "MPG" is something I can't really understand cause that's like - oh, I'm going 73 miles, that's erhh... 4,56 Gallons with my car. In fact, mathematically it's gallons per mile or litres/kilometre as the kilometre is the defined value (which you probably have to go at almost any cost) and the litres are variables
As for the $5 per gallon - seriously what's the problem with that? that's $1.32 per litre which is about 99 euro-cents. Not much I'd say!
No, you've misunderstood this. Not YOU are stealing the oil in the Middle East, the companies are stealing it with the help of your government. Still, the companies are very greedy and charge you an extra few cents - and who wouldn't after taking on all these 'risks' that come along with stealing the oil, right?Stingray24 wrote:
I’m wondering . . . why is my gas price even that high if what you US haters say is true and we’re stealing all the oil in the Mid East? I call bullshit.
Because we damn well like our inches, feet, yard, mile, and gallon measurements...SO BUGGER OFF!!!Stormscythe wrote:
Well, public transport usually works in cities, for commuters that's no real alternative. Though it really isn't that bad: I've been talking with a manager of AVL (the optimize engines for BMWs) and he told me that their engines are basically filtering the air, with close to none particles exiting (way fewer than you've got in a room with one lit candle) the exhaust. Of course carbon dioxide and other gasses don't really help our environment to flourish, but I certainly won't go into this discussion any deeper.
Oh and one thing gives me the creeps: Why can't we just use the international system of litres and kilometres? Also, "MPG" is something I can't really understand cause that's like - oh, I'm going 73 miles, that's erhh... 4,56 Gallons with my car. In fact, mathematically it's gallons per mile or litres/kilometre as the kilometre is the defined value (which you probably have to go at almost any cost) and the litres are variables
As for the $5 per gallon - seriously what's the problem with that? that's $1.32 per litre which is about 99 euro-cents. Not much I'd say!
Yes, we realize that gas is cheaper here than throughout most of Europe and other places around the globe, but that's just part of our economy. We have had relatively inexpensive fuel for so long, and the increases have come so quickly, that this is quite a change for a lot of people. To fill the tank on my Eclipse is now costing me as much as it used to when I had my full size 4x4 truck.
And here I thought you were an environmentalist.. you cheap bastard :p. I average around $200.Bertster7 wrote:
I've got a 1.1L engine, so not much. Driving a 4-5L V8 in the UK is pretty expensive though.Kmarion wrote:
How much do you spend a month in gas?Bertster7 wrote:
In the UK it's about $2 a litre. Stop complaining.
The petrol to drive between London and Brighton (50-60 miles) costs me less than £10 (maybe £7-8) for a round trip, which is a lot less than the train fare (about £22, was £14 but they keep putting it up).
94p a litre is about as cheap as you get, on the motorway it's typically 99.9p a litre.
(Maybe $150-200 a month)
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Stingray24 wrote:
I’m wondering . . . why is my gas price even that high if what you US haters say is true and we’re stealing all the oil in the Mid East? I call bullshit.
No, you've misunderstood this. Not YOU are stealing the oil in the Middle East, the companies are stealing it with the help of your government. Still, the companies are very greedy and charge you an extra few cents - and who wouldn't after taking on all these 'risks' that come along with stealing the oil, right?
Do you think I like to hear the fact that Exxon is make 29 billion in there first quarter. FUCK NO there is no reason other than greed that everyone in the world is paying high prices at the pump. I have a small Honda sports car I still pay 50 bucks to fill it up at $3.17 a gal.
For all of you greenies out there ever wonder why all the pations have been buyt up by the oil industry. They want you to pay for there kids and grand kids to go to collage just so that they can stick it to your kids when they start driving.
I would like to see gas prices at $1.50 a gal for 10- 20 years, but hey this is only my opinion
I’m wondering . . . why is my gas price even that high if what you US haters say is true and we’re stealing all the oil in the Mid East? I call bullshit.
No, you've misunderstood this. Not YOU are stealing the oil in the Middle East, the companies are stealing it with the help of your government. Still, the companies are very greedy and charge you an extra few cents - and who wouldn't after taking on all these 'risks' that come along with stealing the oil, right?
Do you think I like to hear the fact that Exxon is make 29 billion in there first quarter. FUCK NO there is no reason other than greed that everyone in the world is paying high prices at the pump. I have a small Honda sports car I still pay 50 bucks to fill it up at $3.17 a gal.
For all of you greenies out there ever wonder why all the pations have been buyt up by the oil industry. They want you to pay for there kids and grand kids to go to collage just so that they can stick it to your kids when they start driving.
I would like to see gas prices at $1.50 a gal for 10- 20 years, but hey this is only my opinion
I wouldn't call myself an environmentalist. Environmentally concious perhaps, but I don't go much out of my way for that sort of stuff. Saving money, that's what it's all about.Kmarion wrote:
And here I thought you were an environmentalist.. you cheap bastard :p. I average around $200.Bertster7 wrote:
I've got a 1.1L engine, so not much. Driving a 4-5L V8 in the UK is pretty expensive though.Kmarion wrote:
How much do you spend a month in gas?
The petrol to drive between London and Brighton (50-60 miles) costs me less than £10 (maybe £7-8) for a round trip, which is a lot less than the train fare (about £22, was £14 but they keep putting it up).
94p a litre is about as cheap as you get, on the motorway it's typically 99.9p a litre.
(Maybe $150-200 a month)
The oil companies making money helps my 401K stock so I don't mind if they make money. It'd be nice if we could get a bit of a break in the pricing, though. State governments don't help in tacking on additional gas tax in the form of "minimum markup" laws which artificially raise the price and eliminate competition. Oil companies do spend phenomenal amounts of money looking for new sources to drill and on new technology.SmkenRez wrote:
Do you think I like to hear the fact that Exxon is make 29 billion in there first quarter. FUCK NO there is no reason other than greed that everyone in the world is paying high prices at the pump. I have a small Honda sports car I still pay 50 bucks to fill it up at $3.17 a gal.
For all of you greenies out there ever wonder why all the pations have been buyt up by the oil industry. They want you to pay for there kids and grand kids to go to collage just so that they can stick it to your kids when they start driving.
I would like to see gas prices at $1.50 a gal for 10- 20 years, but hey this is only my opinion
PS What kind of Honda do you have?
Fuel taxes make perfect sense. The country has to pay for the direct and indirect effects of pollution from petrol, therefore them charging tax on it makes as much sense as paying road tax for maintenance of the roads.Stingray24 wrote:
The oil companies making money helps my 401K stock so I don't mind if they make money. It'd be nice if we could get a bit of a break in the pricing, though. State governments don't help in tacking on additional gas tax in the form of "minimum markup" laws which artificially raise the price and eliminate competition. Oil companies do spend phenomenal amounts of money looking for new sources to drill and on new technology.SmkenRez wrote:
Do you think I like to hear the fact that Exxon is make 29 billion in there first quarter. FUCK NO there is no reason other than greed that everyone in the world is paying high prices at the pump. I have a small Honda sports car I still pay 50 bucks to fill it up at $3.17 a gal.
For all of you greenies out there ever wonder why all the pations have been buyt up by the oil industry. They want you to pay for there kids and grand kids to go to collage just so that they can stick it to your kids when they start driving.
I would like to see gas prices at $1.50 a gal for 10- 20 years, but hey this is only my opinion
PS What kind of Honda do you have?
We have fuel tax AND minimum markup on top of it. That's my complaint.
Yet you still pay less than anywhere else in the (highly) developed world.Stingray24 wrote:
We have fuel tax AND minimum markup on top of it. That's my complaint.
I'd say to scrap minimum markup stuff and just have more fuel tax, that means more money back to the people of the country, rather than the shareholders of the oil companies.
I don't care about the price of gas as much as the principle behind the idea of taxing it - These proverbial sticks and carrots in our tax system NEED TO STOP. This is an erosion of our freedoms as much as anything else going on bureaucracy-wise today.
The principle of taxing fuel is very sound. The government bears the costs that arise from high fuel consumption, therefore they should receive a portion of the money paid for fuel to pay for those costs. Things the government does cost money, money that needs to be made through taxation. Spending money that there are not enough tax funds to cover is why US debt is so enormous, that is not something that can continue indefinitely.RedTwizzler wrote:
I don't care about the price of gas as much as the principle behind the idea of taxing it - These proverbial sticks and carrots in our tax system NEED TO STOP. This is an erosion of our freedoms as much as anything else going on bureaucracy-wise today.
People need to realise that taxes are not necessarily a bad thing.
Most taxes can be perfectly justified, some can't. Tax on alcohol I think is quite justifiable for example, since the costs on the nation are quite high, extra medical care, police time etc.
It's not sticks and carrots, it's covering costs - that's how taxes work. If something costs the state money, it needs to be taxed to pay for it.
Its funny, becuase this is pretty rediculous but not entirely surprising. I took the bus to campus for a couple of months since gas is $3.70 here (yay California) but I gave it up. My time is too valuable to waste 1 hour going just 10 miles. I'm all for mass trans, but sometimes its just not worth it, despite the cost. I don't think of myself as stubborn, just too busy.In a USA Today/Gallup poll, people overwhelmingly said they would not move or change jobs in order to cut commuter miles, or use mass transit as their main transportation, even if gasoline prices climb to over $10 a gallon. In fact, they reportedly wouldn't take such actions no matter how high the price goes.
But I can tell you as a fact, if gas gets anywhere near $10, I'm dusting off the razor scooter
Its not 100% the consumers fault in america that there are american cars that get shit milage. There are big companies that pay a crap load of money to not allow foreign vehicles with 50mpg average in and for some odd reason they do not pass emissions. 50mpg cant pass emissions but a truck with 8-10mpg average can what kind of bs is that. If you want to be economic Japanese cars is the way to go in the US. If I had a car that gets 60-100mpg on a gas engine i wouldnt mind paying 5$ a gallon. All i know is that i am not leaving the combustion engine.
I've compared Japanese cars with US cars of the same class and they only get 1-3 mpg better, if that. If I accelerate too fast changing lanes a couple times I can easily burn that up.
Comparing a truck to a small 2 seat car isn’t exactly fair. Of course the truck will get bad mileage because it’s geared for pulling and hauling. They certainly get better mileage than they used to.
The reason I prefer my US cars is because I can work on them myself without having to tear half the car apart, the parts are more readily available, and the parts cost less. I choose to drive my cars until then won't go anymore so I do more maintenance than most people do. If I was buying a new car every couple years I would consider a Toyota or Honda because it’s unlikely anything would wear out. But if I tried to drive a Honda until it dies, I’d pay much more in parts and even more in labor since I couldn’t do it myself.
Comparing a truck to a small 2 seat car isn’t exactly fair. Of course the truck will get bad mileage because it’s geared for pulling and hauling. They certainly get better mileage than they used to.
The reason I prefer my US cars is because I can work on them myself without having to tear half the car apart, the parts are more readily available, and the parts cost less. I choose to drive my cars until then won't go anymore so I do more maintenance than most people do. If I was buying a new car every couple years I would consider a Toyota or Honda because it’s unlikely anything would wear out. But if I tried to drive a Honda until it dies, I’d pay much more in parts and even more in labor since I couldn’t do it myself.
Last edited by Stingray24 (2007-06-15 11:01:34)
Surely it has far more to do with the fact that trucks are heavy. Therefore they need a big engine to be able to move at a proper pace. Bigger cylinders = more fuel consumption.Stingray24 wrote:
I've compared Japanese cars with US cars of the same class and they only get 1-3 mpg better, if that. If I accelerate too fast changing lanes a couple times I can easily burn that up.
Comparing a truck to a small 2 seat car isn’t exactly fair. Of course the truck will get bad mileage because it’s geared for pulling and hauling. They certainly get better mileage than they used to.
The good thing with Japanese cars is that they need much less work doing to them. The parts cost a lot, but you don't need them anything like as often. American cars have pretty poor reliability - I know, I've got one. But at least the parts are cheap.Stingray24 wrote:
The reason I prefer my US cars is because I can work on them myself without having to tear half the car apart, the parts are more readily available, and the parts cost less.
Both my parents and my girlfriend have Ford cars and they're very good on reliability (for 10+ year old vehicles) despite being unpopular models in the US. Personally, the combination of fuel costs, insurance, MOT, maintenance and road taxes mean I'm happy to forgo car ownership and walk or use public transport for most of my journeys.Bertster7 wrote:
The good thing with Japanese cars is that they need much less work doing to them. The parts cost a lot, but you don't need them anything like as often. American cars have pretty poor reliability - I know, I've got one. But at least the parts are cheap.
heh not anymore. My ford's been in the shop at least 3 times in the last couple months. They're going down the shitter at an incredible rate.PureFodder wrote:
Both my parents and my girlfriend have Ford cars and they're very good on reliability (for 10+ year old vehicles) despite being unpopular models in the US. Personally, the combination of fuel costs, insurance, MOT, maintenance and road taxes mean I'm happy to forgo car ownership and walk or use public transport for most of my journeys.Bertster7 wrote:
The good thing with Japanese cars is that they need much less work doing to them. The parts cost a lot, but you don't need them anything like as often. American cars have pretty poor reliability - I know, I've got one. But at least the parts are cheap.
I can ride my bike where I need to go..
It won't even matter if we switch to Ethanol or used food oils (it actually does work).
If we do start using that, they will jack the price up on that too. Nothing is ever free.
If we do start using that, they will jack the price up on that too. Nothing is ever free.
What?! You don't even know what LPG is?!Harmor wrote:
What is LPG? Low Polluting Gas?
My god.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
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