Pages: 1 2 3 4

 

2007-05-23 09:43:51
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7025|132 and Bush

JahManRed wrote:

Ok, so now even the most right wing Bush supporters who cried foul at any criticism of Bush before with cries of "not another Bush, Fox News thread" have finally seen the light?
Does this mean an official apology from the Right to us tree hugging liberal hippies?
I don't think anyone needs to apologize for anything if they are speaking from their heart when they discuss issues (Unless they do so in a disrespectful manner). People should constantly be evaluating their own opinion and adjusting with new information. Demanding an apology from a person who doesn't have their brains stuck in neutral will only further divide us and discourage others from sharing their true feelings. Spite can be ugly.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2007-05-23 09:51:20
GATOR591957
Member
+84|7051

fadedsteve wrote:

I have been on the fence with Georgy boy for a while now. . . .

I thought he was RIGHT in attacking Afghanistan and Iraq, however he did made mistakes in not properly assessing the realities on the ground after we took over. . . .

He was RIGHT in lowering taxes, cause those of you who make any money realize that more money given back to the people as opposed to the government is the right/fair decision.

I could list more, but thats not what the purpose of this thread is about!!!

His latest move of supporting the recent immigration bill, shows his total and complete disregard for the American people and his political party. This move of support for a Teddy Kennedy sponsored bill is not only irresponsible, but flat out WRONG!

He is not doubt OUT OF TOUCH of reality. . . .in every sense of the word!! This is coming from a Conservative Republican. . . may I stress NOT a right wing Republican (as I am pro-choice).

Fucking unbelieveable. . . . I can put up with bad intelligence in regards to war planning, but selling out your party and your country to a bunch of law breaking illegals is unacceptable!! Therefore, George W. Bush and those Republicans who supported that bill (including John McCain) are dead to me. . . .
It took an immigration bill for you to come to this realization?  You need to get out more....j/k
2007-05-23 10:58:46
Mason4Assassin444
retired
+552|7086|USA

Kmarion wrote:

JahManRed wrote:

Ok, so now even the most right wing Bush supporters who cried foul at any criticism of Bush before with cries of "not another Bush, Fox News thread" have finally seen the light?
Does this mean an official apology from the Right to us tree hugging liberal hippies?
I don't think anyone needs to apologize for anything if they are speaking from their heart when they discuss issues (Unless they do so in a disrespectful manner). People should constantly be evaluating their own opinion and adjusting with new information. Demanding an apology from a person who doesn't have their brains stuck in neutral will only further divide us and discourage others from sharing their true feelings. Spite can be ugly.
Your speaking of the same people who were throwing around 'flip flopper' a year ago. But I agree with you.
2007-05-23 11:10:59
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,991|7056|949

I give this thread an A+

Steve, I love your use of ellipses.  Seriously.

Do any of you (conservatives) actually think there will be a candidate from the (two headed dragon) two main parties that won't pander to corporate/military industry interests?  Que sera sera I guess, right?
2007-05-23 11:14:03
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7068
Gravel says some pretty harsh shit
2007-05-23 11:24:15
Major_Spittle
Banned
+276|7079|United States of America
Why the fuck do we need a new immigration bill, just enforce the laws we have now.

Put the military on the border and make it Mexico's problem.  Jesus fuck why is this country so stupid.
2007-05-23 11:25:51
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6953|Global Command
I ask myself the same question every day.
2007-05-23 11:41:39
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7186

Major_Spittle wrote:

Why the fuck do we need a new immigration bill, just enforce the laws we have now.

Put the military on the border and make it Mexico's problem.  Jesus fuck why is this country so stupid.
Campaign Trail....

Last edited by usmarine2005 (2007-05-23 11:43:58)

2007-05-23 11:51:50
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7025|132 and Bush

Major_Spittle wrote:

Why the fuck do we need a new immigration bill, just enforce the laws we have now.

Put the military on the border and make it Mexico's problem.  Jesus fuck why is this country so stupid.
Simple, neither the President or anyone in Congress really wants to stop the flow of undocumented workers. Special interest and Big Business can benefit greatly from cheap labor. They lobby Congress and contribute to their campaign "fund raisers". We are being sold out to further political careers. The politicians just have to put on a tough face for us to actually believe the vomit they spew at us.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2007-05-23 11:54:27
Schwarzelungen
drunklenglungen
+133|6720|Bloomington Indiana

Kmarion wrote:

Major_Spittle wrote:

Why the fuck do we need a new immigration bill, just enforce the laws we have now.

Put the military on the border and make it Mexico's problem.  Jesus fuck why is this country so stupid.
Simple, neither the President or anyone in Congress really wants to stop the flow of undocumented workers. Special interest and Big Business can benefit greatly from cheap labor. They lobby Congress and contribute to their campaign "fund raisers". We are being sold out to further political careers. The politicians just have to put on a tough face for us to actually believe the vomit they spew at us.
sucks, but true
2007-05-23 11:57:54
Sydney
2λчиэλ
+783|7267|Reykjavík, Iceland.

B.Schuss wrote:

steve, what exactly is it that bothers you about the new imigration bill ? From what I have read, it seems quite comprehensive. Or would you have rather deported all of the estimated 12 million illegals ?

Kennedy wrote:

We’re not going to round up these 12 million men, women and children and send them home. That’s not the American way. So our plan allows these families to earn the privilege of remaining here and working legally.

They have to pay a $5000 fine over an eight-year period.

They have to work and pay taxes.

They have to learn English.

They cannot be criminals or national security risks and they must obey our laws.

The heads of family must make a trip home for a day or two sometime in the next eight years to submit their applications for a green card at an American consulate just like other immigrants applying to come here.
Improved border security, news laws against employers hiring illegals, a plan to integrate those who are already in the US into the society, i.e. make them "legal".

What's wrong with that ?
So only American Citizens are allowed be to criminals?
2007-05-23 12:01:45
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|7160|Salt Lake City

This is what I find the funniest part of it all.  This is from the B.Schuss post.

They cannot be criminals or national security risks and they must obey our laws.
If you want to get right down to it, they are all criminals.  They all failed to obey our laws, and broke them by entering the country illegally.  Shouldn't they all be sent back?
2007-05-23 12:50:50
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|7265|Cologne, Germany

only quoting Senator Kennedy here...

The question is, which is more realistic: rounding 12 million illegal immigrants up and deport them, or give them citizenship ?
2007-05-23 13:39:27
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6953|Global Command

B.Schuss wrote:

only quoting Senator Kennedy here...

The question is, which is more realistic: rounding 12 million illegal immigrants up and deport them, or give them citizenship ?
Which is exactly why the muffers in government have let it get so out of control.

" gee guys, we can't possibly deport the millions we have let in, that means them and their entire familes must be allowed in without reprocussions"

Wouldn't have made more sense to enforce existing laws than to pretend they are going to enforce new ones?
And the cost. Whenever the government says something will cost one dollar it costs four.
They are saying the immigration plan will cost three trillion dollars .

All I want anymore is the truth.
2007-05-23 13:43:36
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7025|132 and Bush

B.Schuss wrote:

only quoting Senator Kennedy here...

The question is, which is more realistic: rounding 12 million illegal immigrants up and deport them, or give them citizenship ?
Senator Kennedy has no idea what principle is. It's not necessarily a matter of being realistic, but rather a matter of taking the easy route. He makes it sound as if the border patrol is going to go around driving a bus checking green cards at random when he says "round them up"..lol.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2007-05-23 13:58:21
inhumane_assailant
Member
+3|7108|england
Well im not American so i don't know about this new policy really. But you said you are against the whole idea of immigrants? Try britan, its immigrant capital with a government who are the bitchs of the american one. They also agree to to many EU policies (such as allowing any EU citizen to freely come and stay in our country) as they seem to benefit all the other EU contries but ours.

Its perfetic how someone from australia cant freely come into our contry yet they are part of the commen wealth but some one from poland can who we have no connection with at all.

I cant wait to leave this contry, im fed up with people coming into our contry and taking our jobs. Im fed up with the stupid tax laws which take from the rich and give to the poor.  I can understand helping thoose in poverty. But i am fed up of to many people living on benefits because they couldn't be bothered to stop being "cool" or just wasn't bothered in trying to do well at school to get a desent life. Then just live off us paying taxes. I want to go into doing a maths degree in uni. I thought aww great i can earn 40k a year after just 4 years of leaving. Ooo but i loss over a third of it to tax for things like hospital care i don't use because of all the smokers using it up instead. Or obease people, which it has been proven to have more money spent on them in hospital then the average person.

The stupid thing is we pay taxes for these people on benefits then they come and mug us or rob us. I live near a council housing estate and all the houses down my road keep getting broken into by these people that we are paying for to live. 4 doors away my friend lost 20k to some druggies from thoose cousil houses. My mums friends son got mugged and has his phone and ipod stolen.

They invented the amazing NHS. It will never work and will only get worse, with increase of costs of treatments and new technology. Increased wages, increased population and increases in ages before you die. Its costing more and more in taxes.

Our medical system is no longer run on whats best on the patient but how much money they can save. My nan  was given the wrong medication by doctors because it was to expensive to give her the treatment she should have had. She was also overdosed on drugs as they kept giving her medicines which clashed with each other. The result was servier stomake alsers. Now shes in hospital with MRSA. The NHS is so good, we are the only contry to have it.

They have to stop it and change it to private care where people pay for their own hospital trips and cut down on taxes instead. This would solve all the problems of money shortages for expensive treatments. SOme of it could be paid by the government but not all of it.

The stupidity of governments and there lack of understanding how it affects people astounds me. People in england work more hours then any other contry. Everything in our country seems to cost more then other contries and we have one of the highest tax rates to top it.


Went off topic but o well also beleive my spelling has been terrible but im dislexic lol.

Last edited by inhumane_assailant (2007-05-23 14:03:34)

2007-05-23 14:12:21
jonsimon
Member
+224|6919

Kmarion wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

only quoting Senator Kennedy here...

The question is, which is more realistic: rounding 12 million illegal immigrants up and deport them, or give them citizenship ?
Senator Kennedy has no idea what principle is. It's not necessarily a matter of being realistic, but rather a matter of taking the easy route. He makes it sound as if the border patrol is going to go around driving a bus checking green cards at random when he says "round them up"..lol.
Wouldn't that be close to the reality? Think of the costs, deportation will require budgeting for increased justice activity. Courts, paperwork, remand, officers, investigations, a hefty price. To deport immigrants you must find them, but if you offer citizenship, they will come to you. Immigrants would voluntarily apply for citizenship, their application would be processed in a system that would not need to be expanded, and the problem is solved.

The question is, does it somehow benefit us more to expend for deportation rather than to simply increase immigration quotas to meet demand?
2007-05-23 14:29:49
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7025|132 and Bush

jonsimon wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

only quoting Senator Kennedy here...

The question is, which is more realistic: rounding 12 million illegal immigrants up and deport them, or give them citizenship ?
Senator Kennedy has no idea what principle is. It's not necessarily a matter of being realistic, but rather a matter of taking the easy route. He makes it sound as if the border patrol is going to go around driving a bus checking green cards at random when he says "round them up"..lol.
Wouldn't that be close to the reality? Think of the costs, deportation will require budgeting for increased justice activity. Courts, paperwork, remand, officers, investigations, a hefty price. To deport immigrants you must find them, but if you offer citizenship, they will come to you. Immigrants would voluntarily apply for citizenship, their application would be processed in a system that would not need to be expanded, and the problem is solved.

The question is, does it somehow benefit us more to expend for deportation rather than to simply increase immigration quotas to meet demand?
No need to consider the cost, paperwork, remand, or officers. Just eliminate their desire to come here illegally. I think you can figure out where I am going with this. Solving an "illegal" problem by just making it "legal" seems a little weak in my opinion.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2007-05-23 14:54:26
fadedsteve
GOP Sympathizer
+266|6915|Menlo Park, CA
Bush pandered to big business. . . .PERIOD!!! Big business wants a cheap labor force, and they got it!!

That pandering has put America and her citizens in greater danger than before. . . .

This immigration bill is reprehensible in every stretch of the imagination. . . .

How can you process people without having a secure border to get a real assessment on how many people are truely here illegally. . . .??? That bill has NOTHING as far as "good" border security provisions are concerned! For christs sake the Border Patrol Union Chief says this bill is a joke!!

We need to SECURE THE BORDER before we start giving people fines, amnesty, free education, free health care, free everything!!!! A NATION WITHOUT BORDERS ISNT A NATION!! Ronald Reagan said that, and HE'S RIGHT!!!

Without 30,000+ agents, miles of modern fence line, water impedements, watch towers, motion sensors etc. we will get another 12-15 million more people that arent supposed to be here!!!! This isnt a matter of racism, its a matter of upholding our Constitution not too mention Federal and local laws!!

We have been absolutely bent over and butt fucked by our law makers, and this bill is another example of citizens getting raped in the asshole!! I am tired of it, and WILL NOT stand for it any longer!!

Bush's answer to the question of charging illegals back taxes. . . "Umm forget it, It will take up too much time" FUCK YOU GEORGE BUSH!!! FUCK YOU!!!! You can charge American citizens up the ass in back taxes, but you won't charge illegals who arent supposed to be here, as well as having BROKE THE LAW!!! YOU ARE DEAD IN MY EYES!!!!

Last edited by fadedsteve (2007-05-23 14:59:59)

2007-05-23 15:12:02
jonsimon
Member
+224|6919

Kmarion wrote:

jonsimon wrote:

Kmarion wrote:


Senator Kennedy has no idea what principle is. It's not necessarily a matter of being realistic, but rather a matter of taking the easy route. He makes it sound as if the border patrol is going to go around driving a bus checking green cards at random when he says "round them up"..lol.
Wouldn't that be close to the reality? Think of the costs, deportation will require budgeting for increased justice activity. Courts, paperwork, remand, officers, investigations, a hefty price. To deport immigrants you must find them, but if you offer citizenship, they will come to you. Immigrants would voluntarily apply for citizenship, their application would be processed in a system that would not need to be expanded, and the problem is solved.

The question is, does it somehow benefit us more to expend for deportation rather than to simply increase immigration quotas to meet demand?
No need to consider the cost, paperwork, remand, or officers. Just eliminate their desire to come here illegally. I think you can figure out where I am going with this. Solving an "illegal" problem by just making it "legal" seems a little weak in my opinion.
Perhaps you should elaborate. The incentive to immigrate is a higher standard of living, are you suggesting we purposefully lower our standard of living? I certainly don't think that's what you're saying.

The problem is only illegal because we say so, we set the quotas that restrict immigration. How is it 'weak' to simply expand those quotas? If we expand the ability of immigrants to do so legally we are essentially removing the incentive to immigrate illegally, is that not the course of action you are suggesting?
2007-05-23 15:35:07
dalexa
Member
+4|7030|portugal

fadedsteve wrote:

Without 30,000+ agents, miles of modern fence line, water impedements, watch towers, motion sensors etc. we will get another 12-15 million more people that arent supposed to be here!!!!
hmm... isn't the same way that, who you guys call native americans, might have thought when they saw their lands invaded? wasn't the united states built with the labour of immigrants?

immigrants will probably work in the jobs that most of you will not want to do. why are you so against them? they are a major risk? not more than some of the americans that live there (or any other person that lives anywhere and has a major brain issue).
illegal immigrants need to have their situation regulated for everyones sake.

again... your country was made of immigrants...


i love new york because of that... the whole world is there... you must hate it so much...
2007-05-23 15:39:54
Cerpin_Taxt
Member
+155|6627
He's dead to me too.

https://www.vu.union.edu/~welchm/zombie_bush_small.jpg
2007-05-23 15:46:27
HunterOfSkulls
Rated EC-10
+246|6704

fadedsteve wrote:

I think HunterofSkulls lost his kitty and is mad at the world (corporate world that is)!! You have some serious pent up anger towards people who make more money than you do!! lol! Not too mention a jaded sense of what the government should and could be!!
I appreciate your concern steve, but both my cats are right here safe and sound. As for the rest...

fadedsteve wrote:

Bush pandered to big business. . . .PERIOD!!! Big business wants a cheap labor force, and they got it!!

fadedsteve wrote:

We have been absolutely bent over and butt fucked by our law makers, and this bill is another example of citizens getting raped in the asshole!! I am tired of it, and WILL NOT stand for it any longer!!

fadedsteve wrote:

Bush's answer to the question of charging illegals back taxes. . . "Umm forget it, It will take up too much time" FUCK YOU GEORGE BUSH!!! FUCK YOU!!!! You can charge American citizens up the ass in back taxes, but you won't charge illegals who arent supposed to be here, as well as having BROKE THE LAW!!! YOU ARE DEAD IN MY EYES!!!!
You sound pretty mad at the world too steve. Are you sure that's not a little class envy sneaking in there, just jealous because the corporate world got what it wanted from Bush and you didn't because they make more money than you do? Are you sure you're not a little jaded because your government fucked you yet again? Me, I've been jaded since I discovered what a lying sack Reagan was after idolizing the man for years. What took you so long?

fadedsteve wrote:

I know. . . I know. . . . Halliburton, no blood for oil, blah blah blah! I've heard it dude. . . .broken record! You think your taxes are bad now. . . .wait till we have a one party system!! Once Bush signs the immigration reform bill into law, which commits our party to ultimate ruin, which spurns the Democrats into firmly entrenched positions in Washington.  You WATCH how much of YOUR money comes out of your income to BS federal programs, policies, and over all government blunder!! You think Bush is bad, you havent seen bad yet. . . . you havent begun to see government mismanagment yet!! Full Democrat control is a recipe for absolute and complete government/American disaster.
Are you telling me you think the Democrats are going to win this next race? That this is the death knell of the GOP? You started out the thread saying you were still going to vote GOP if they gave you an acceptable front-runner. I imagine the rest of your outraged fellow republicans will do the same. Don't delude yourself that full Democrat control would be any different thant full GOP control. The Democrats have had a much larger voice since the last election and what have they done with it? Squat. They got in promising their voters that "the adults" would be in charge now and once there it turned into "now isn't the time to be bitter and nasty". Bullshit, this is the perfect time to be bitter and nasty towards a party that has practically called a sizeable chunk of the country traitors and terrorist-loving America-haters. They should be dismantling the Patriot Act, fighting the biblical tenets masquerading as secular laws, doing something besides being the GOP's whipping boys. Instead they're giving us so many waffles they should be running a diner instead of our government. We DO have a one-party system all ready, they serve the same interests just using different methods necessary to mollify their voter bases. They only keep the promises that serve them and the people that give them the most cash and perks.


fadedsteve wrote:

Cameron Poe. . . . What more can I say about him?? He is an arrogant liberal forum troll! Who aims to "enlighten" everyone on his liberal policies from his liberal bubble called Ireland! He and I disagree on most issues, but we agree on things from time to time. . . . Its the arrogance that kills me
Cam and I only part ways on border security and the use of surveilance against American citizens. I hardly find him arrogant. He's a lot less condescending than any of the "Awww, you silly liberal, lemme pat you on the head" types around here who look all the more foolish when they follow up an outraged tirade against their own party with a statement of their willingness to vote for them again. It's sickeningly like watching an abused woman go back to the same guy again because this time he promises to change.
2007-05-23 15:49:18
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7186

HunterOfSkulls wrote:

I hardly find him arrogant.

CameronPoe wrote:

I enjoy annoying people by acting arrogant and condescending - get over it.
He may not agree with you on that also.

Last edited by usmarine2005 (2007-05-23 15:51:07)

2007-05-23 15:53:27
Ironsteed
Fuck Shoes
+18|6895|North of Dallas
This pretty much sums up my feelings about politicians.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ushi8-dRlvg

"The problem with politics is there are too many politicians involved."

Last edited by Ironsteed (2007-05-23 15:54:19)

 

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