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Lawl at teh irony.
Technically he wanted to be a dictator before being elected, when he led a coup against president Perez back in 1992.
I really hate that guy.
Airstrike?
Airstrike?
Nationalising the oil doesn't make him a dictator.
No, but it will in the long run. It's what he wants and this is one of the ways he plans to achieve it.Bubbalo wrote:
Nationalising the oil doesn't make him a dictator.
Not only that but it is still a battlefield in the rest of the market place. He needs all of those (multi-national) oil companies to invest in the extraction of the oil.Bubbalo wrote:
Nationalising the oil doesn't make him a dictator.
From the very same article:
"Despite the fanfare, these companies remain locked in a behind-the-scenes struggle with the Chavez government, and appear to be taking a decisive stand, demanding conditions - and presumably compensation - to convince them that Venezuela will continue to be good business."
Last edited by topal63 (2007-05-01 08:05:12)
Your title, however, is ridiculous.Cougar wrote:
No, but it will in the long run. It's what he wants and this is one of the ways he plans to achieve it.
That's a good point. Does this mean that the companies that lost their interestests can claim their loss with their respective governments? How is this handled?topal63 wrote:
Not only that but it is still a battlefield in the rest of the market place. He needs all of those (multi-national) oil companies to invest in the extraction of the oil.Bubbalo wrote:
Nationalising the oil doesn't make him a dictator.
From the very same article"Despite the fanfare, these companies remain locked in a behind-the-scenes struggle with the Chavez government, and appear to be taking a decisive stand, demanding conditions - and presumably compensation - to convince them that Venezuela will continue to be good business."
Can Chavez refine all their oil?
Should santions be placed on them?
Will the U.N. do anything about this?
Thats what happens when you put a mexican in charge
15 more years! 15 more years!
Chavez and his government can't refine any of it... he threatens the multi-national big-boys, with "then I will use China or India," but that is all just pure hot-air. Those countries do not have the (technological) expertise to extract or refine the Orinoco Reserve. He needs the multi-nationals already doing business in Venezuela.Harmor wrote:
That's a good point. Does this mean that the companies that lost their interests can claim their loss with their respective governments? How is this handled?topal63 wrote:
Not only that but it is still a battlefield in the rest of the market place. He needs all of those (multi-national) oil companies to invest in the extraction of the oil.Bubbalo wrote:
Nationalising the oil doesn't make him a dictator.
From the very same article"Despite the fanfare, these companies remain locked in a behind-the-scenes struggle with the Chavez government, and appear to be taking a decisive stand, demanding conditions - and presumably compensation - to convince them that Venezuela will continue to be good business."
Can Chavez refine all their oil?
Should sanctions be placed on them?
Will the U.N. do anything about this?
Sanctions sure why not... I don't see anything wrong with that, but in the end it will either be equitable for someone/some-company to do business or not (with Chavez/Venezuela).
The U.N. has no interest or business - in this type of issue (it is purely a state vs business/money issue).
Last edited by topal63 (2007-05-01 08:14:00)
What's that got to do with anything?Bubbalo wrote:
Your title, however, is ridiculous.Cougar wrote:
No, but it will in the long run. It's what he wants and this is one of the ways he plans to achieve it.
I'm glad you don't own any fighter planes!ATG wrote:
I really hate that guy.
Airstrike?
I'm not gonna feel sorry for any fat cat oil company, they don't deserve any sympathy and the more trouble they get the better as far as I'm concerned, I'd be more worried by the fact that Venezuela could be cutting their nose off to spite their face if the Chinese and Indian companies can't deliver the goods. If they mess up their countries main asset the economy and by extension the people of Venezuela will be the ones to suffer.
I was in Caracas then.. Scary stuff. Airports were shutdown, couldn't go anywhere.sergeriver wrote:
Technically he wanted to be a dictator before being elected, when he led a coup against president Perez back in 1992.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
From the article -
Furthermore-
Ideally, I believe that all natural resources of a country should be controlled by the state. Surely they (the nationalist government and multinational companies) can form a symbiotic relationship.
"companies ceding control" and "Chavez takes over" are pretty big leaps.The companies ceding control include BP Plc (Charts), ConocoPhillips (Charts, Fortune 500), Exxon Mobil (Charts, Fortune 500)., Chevron (Charts, Fortune 500), France's Total SA (Charts) and Norway's Sta toil ASA (Charts). All but ConocoPhillips have agreed in principle to state control, and Venezuela has warned it may expropriate that company's assets if it doesn't follow suit.
As the article (and topal) noted, the country of Venezuela (and Hugo) needs the big oil companies to refine and distribute.Despite the fanfare, these companies remain locked in a behind-the-scenes struggle with the Chavez government, and appear to be taking a decisive stand, demanding conditions - and presumably compensation - to convince them that Venezuela will continue to be good business.
Furthermore-
Seems like Big Oil does all right across the rest of the globe, right?But three-quarters of the world's proven reserves are already controlled by state monopolies, so Venezuela may still prove enticing.
Ideally, I believe that all natural resources of a country should be controlled by the state. Surely they (the nationalist government and multinational companies) can form a symbiotic relationship.
Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2007-05-01 09:32:23)
Personally I'm dead against big oil and all for nationalisation of natural resources like that. I'd be an advocate of setting up public-private partnerships like we have in Ireland on road-building schemes, whereby companies can jointly develop an oil field with full control/ownership reverting to the government at the end of the term (say 15-20 years), the company having profited in the interim (via tolls in the road example).
I'd be more worried about the other things he has been up to. He shut down the last remaining non-governmental television station only a few weeks ago and has well and truly set Venezuela on course to being just another dictatorship - not a communist state.
I'd be more worried about the other things he has been up to. He shut down the last remaining non-governmental television station only a few weeks ago and has well and truly set Venezuela on course to being just another dictatorship - not a communist state.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-05-01 09:30:26)
All of us who want to could beat up Chavez and throw him through a window in slow-mo, then we'll use an airstrike. Oh and yes he is defniately trying to become a dictator, clear signs so far I'd say.ATG wrote:
I really hate that guy.
Airstrike?
I don't like Chavez or the idea of stealing other people's shit, but honestly, this kind of thing might have to happen throughout the Middle East in order to decrease poverty over there.
As for Venezuela.... well... that's another situation altogether.
wasn't this why the CIA overthrew Mossadegh in 1953? Where are they now? Oh wait I forgot the U.S. is over-stretched in Iraq. Riiiiight.
Last time I checked, the earth bellow your feat belongs to the country its in and so should the oil. The oil is essentially part of the country, its compressed decomposed materials that make up the country itself.
The fact that you arguing he's doing this 'cos he wants to be a dictator is the discussion point of the thread?Cougar wrote:
What's that got to do with anything?Bubbalo wrote:
Your title, however, is ridiculous.Cougar wrote:
No, but it will in the long run. It's what he wants and this is one of the ways he plans to achieve it.
Reminds me of a news article i posted a while ago.
"Political activisits are calling on U2 singer Bono, as an investor in Pandemic Studios, to halt the development of forthcoming shooter Mercenaries 2: World in Flames.
The game is set in Venezuela and sees players taking on a political tyrant who has taken control of the oil industry. It's already attracted criticism from the country's president, Hugo Chavez, who labelled it as an example of "psychological warfare".
Now the Venezuelan Solidarity Campaign has written an open letter to religious leaders asking for their help in stopping production on the game."
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=67386
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=23702
"Political activisits are calling on U2 singer Bono, as an investor in Pandemic Studios, to halt the development of forthcoming shooter Mercenaries 2: World in Flames.
The game is set in Venezuela and sees players taking on a political tyrant who has taken control of the oil industry. It's already attracted criticism from the country's president, Hugo Chavez, who labelled it as an example of "psychological warfare".
Now the Venezuelan Solidarity Campaign has written an open letter to religious leaders asking for their help in stopping production on the game."
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=67386
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=23702
So you call him a dictator because he nationalised the oil, but then you admit that this action doesn't make him one. So why is he a dictator? I for one think its a good thing that those big multinationals don't suck the money out of the country and its people any more.Cougar wrote:
No, but it will in the long run. It's what he wants and this is one of the ways he plans to achieve it.Bubbalo wrote:
Nationalising the oil doesn't make him a dictator.
ƒ³
Hugo Chavez needs a history lesson to see what happens when thugs try to take over business.
What happens?TrollmeaT wrote:
Hugo Chavez needs a history lesson to see what happens when thugs try to take over business.
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