Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6853|North Carolina

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:


That was contingent upon a withdrawal. I don't know where we got the notion that it takes billions of dollars to support moderate Muslims. (Although for some radical reason we think it is necessary to support Israel). Support can come in many different ways.
Very true.  We need to cut off government funding to Israel NOW.  Don't expect PNAC or AIPAC to allow Bush to do that though.  As long as both of those lobbies hold a shitload of influence in our government, we'll continue to fund Israel.  Lieberman is also part of the problem.

Nevertheless, I would agree that there are multiple ways to support moderate Muslims, but a lot of the reason for extremism is connected to poverty that is a direct result of Middle Eastern governments that we support.
Indeed but poverty is not fixed with cash, it is through empowerment and education. (Long term at least)
Well, if oil was properly nationalized in all Middle Eastern countries, so that every citizen got a fair amount of the oil revenue, the people could live better.  In addition to this, a large chunk of the oil revenue could go toward secular schools for the public.

Of course, don't expect the Saudis to be willing to part with the massive amount of cash they've reaped from oil trade over the years for such projects.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7049|132 and Bush

Fen321 wrote:

Yeah -- it helps release that needless stress.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c241/ … /logic.jpg


For instance is this a Moderate or an Extremist Fundamentalist(redundant eh?).....?

Both sides using the same logic to justify their fractured view of a belief. A pity really.

Its a Moderate from the video above
I don't know if the is funny, scary, or sad...

Look at where and when these demonstrations against terrorism occurred.

https://i18.tinypic.com/2ykfl02.jpg

https://i14.tinypic.com/4bgedd3.jpg

Sobering isn't it?

Last edited by Kmarion (2007-04-12 22:22:36)

Xbone Stormsurgezz
Reciprocity
Member
+721|7028|the dank(super) side of Oregon

Kmarion wrote:

Look at where and when these demonstrations against terrorism occurred.

http://i18.tinypic.com/2ykfl02.jpg

http://i14.tinypic.com/4bgedd3.jpg

Sobering isn't it?
Change in the Middle East will have to come from within.  Hopefully those kids will one day be in charge of Iran.  We can't put them in charge, they have to earn/take it.  It's a lesson we've hopefully learned with Iraq.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7049|132 and Bush

Reciprocity wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Look at where and when these demonstrations against terrorism occurred.

http://i18.tinypic.com/2ykfl02.jpg

http://i14.tinypic.com/4bgedd3.jpg

Sobering isn't it?
Change in the Middle East will have to come from within.  Hopefully those kids will one day be in charge of Iran.  We can't put them in charge, they have to earn/take it.  It's a lesson we've hopefully learned with Iraq.
I just sit in amazement when I see pictures like that. How far can you distance yourself from the world in a matter of a few years. Americans need to remember that after the attacks we had the entire world by our side. What a squandered opportunity that became. Our politicians have sold us out. Both Republicans and Democrats. I absolutely dare someone to call me out on that.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6853|North Carolina
Kmarion...  once you make that realization, that's when isolationism makes more sense.  Government is too incompetent to get involved in the Middle East without fucking things up.  That's why I want us out of there.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7049|132 and Bush

It is a wicked web we weave Turquise. We have global interest all over the world that are crucial to us. Our economy, our government, and our future depends on it. We have chosen the wrong paths to maintain our Supremacy (Non-Americans love it when I say that ). The good news is I think we still have time to get back to being the America we were.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Reciprocity
Member
+721|7028|the dank(super) side of Oregon

Kmarion wrote:

I just sit in amazement when I see pictures like that. How far can you distance yourself from the world in a matter of a few years. Americans need to remember that after the attacks we had the entire world by our side. What a squandered opportunity that became. Our politicians have sold us out. Both Republicans and Democrats. I absolutely dare someone to call me out on that.
I completely agree, September 11th wiped our slate clean.  We had the opportunity to rebuild some relationships, and in some cases, create new ones.  We're now in a more tenuous position than ever.
<BoTM>J_Aero
Qualified Expert
+62|6913|Melbourne - Home of Football
Like usual, ATG, you're creating too many problems for me to be able to organise and respond to at once effectively, so I might pick which brush fires to douse, somewhat selectively.

First I'll try and broadly outline what you've asked for:
Brutality towards Iraq as a method of achieving stability.
You use the word murder in reference to that brutality, implying killing without justification.
Taking of oil, property of another nation, by decree (basically theft), an empty and pointless declaration of victory ( haven't we had one of those already) and what amounts to regime change of anywhere that doesn't agree with your own sense of foreign policy (sure you're not Donald Rumsfeld in disguise?). After that it gets kind of angry and vengeful, like you want to be God from the old testament.

I don't have a problem with you, it's with your reasoning: who has hacked your account and had you portraying Osama as speaking for all Muslims, as if Dale Evans Barlow speaks for all Christians, such is the absurdity of the claim you make.

So basically, brutality as a method of pacification or achieving stability might achieve a short termreduction of violence, but will in the long term result in a more catastrophic failure. It leads to the worship of martyrs (see Palestine), the further encouragement of resistance (see Afghanistan) and the rise of historically significant leaders in the country (see USA War of Independence, Civil War).

The state condoning murder is an idea that doesn't take much reasoning to reveal the holes in. In short, it would undermine it's operations in the country it is occupying, in terms of it's pretense at establishing rule of law, and at home, by being such a huge contradiction to laws it enforces in it's home jurisdiction.

The taking of the property of another nation, Iraq's oil being a perfect example, amounts to nothing more than theft. Yes, you could say it was to pay for the cost in lives, equipment and expense the United States and its allies have contributed. Yet that still wouldn't be justification, the previous Iraqi government / regime or the people did not ask to be invaded, and the idea of asking for recompense for something inflicted on another nation, against their will, is illogical.

The idea of attacking Mecca, the place of Hajj for the Islamic people is ridiculous, you really can't equate a place of unrivalled religious significance to millions of people with two office towers, not even 50 years old, that may have been symbolic of the economic power of the USA, but certainly weren't part of the spiritual lives in a deeper sense that the Ka'aba has meant for over a millenia.

Though you may characterise the people of the middle east as backwards and animalistic, it is all a matter of perspective. To them, you, as a modern American, are every bit as strange and indecipherable, with your consumerism. They too have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness that Thomas Jefferson wrote so eloquently of, you have no right to take that away from them. If they choose to live their lives that way, so be it.

Finally, I know I've directed this at ATG, because of his particular comments in this thread, but many people in this section say similar kinds of things, and so, consider this a warning to all of you. American ethnocentrism is not an acceptable way of governing the planet.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6853|North Carolina

Kmarion wrote:

It is a wicked web we weave Turquise. We have global interest all over the world that are crucial to us. Our economy, our government, and our future depends on it. We have chosen the wrong paths to maintain our Supremacy (Non-Americans love it when I say that ). The good news is I think we still have time to get back to being the America we were.
I think you mean primacy, but yeah, I get what you mean.

I don't know if I hold the same hope as you though.  Personally, I see isolationism as one of the few ways we can become what you're talking about, because our government is currently so large that it becomes very tempting for us to just dabble in everyone's affairs.  If we decentralized our government more, we'd get involved in less foreign bullshit, and we could respect states' rights more.

Smaller federal government equals more freedom (and generally less taxes) for us, even if it might allow some dictators and extremists to remain in power overseas.
TrollmeaT
Aspiring Objectivist
+492|7120|Colorado

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

It is a wicked web we weave Turquise. We have global interest all over the world that are crucial to us. Our economy, our government, and our future depends on it. We have chosen the wrong paths to maintain our Supremacy (Non-Americans love it when I say that ). The good news is I think we still have time to get back to being the America we were.
I think you mean primacy, but yeah, I get what you mean.

I don't know if I hold the same hope as you though.  Personally, I see isolationism as one of the few ways we can become what you're talking about, because our government is currently so large that it becomes very tempting for us to just dabble in everyone's affairs.  If we decentralized our government more, we'd get involved in less foreign bullshit, and we could respect states' rights more.

Smaller federal government equals more freedom (and generally less taxes) for us, even if it might allow some dictators and extremists to remain in power overseas.
We also need a separation of state & economics and separation of state & schools, not to mention repealing some rulings that have inhibited our freedoms. I don't see Isolationism as a viable solution though in my opinion.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7049|132 and Bush

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

It is a wicked web we weave Turquise. We have global interest all over the world that are crucial to us. Our economy, our government, and our future depends on it. We have chosen the wrong paths to maintain our Supremacy (Non-Americans love it when I say that ). The good news is I think we still have time to get back to being the America we were.
I think you mean primacy, but yeah, I get what you mean.

I don't know if I hold the same hope as you though.  Personally, I see isolationism as one of the few ways we can become what you're talking about, because our government is currently so large that it becomes very tempting for us to just dabble in everyone's affairs.  If we decentralized our government more, we'd get involved in less foreign bullshit, and we could respect states' rights more.

Smaller federal government equals more freedom (and generally less taxes) for us, even if it might allow some dictators and extremists to remain in power overseas.
Call it whatever you want..lol

You have a good theory Turquoise, I just see don't the possibility of it. Politicians are not in the business of giving up power.








Edit:Man it's late.

Last edited by Kmarion (2007-04-12 23:04:51)

Xbone Stormsurgezz
Reciprocity
Member
+721|7028|the dank(super) side of Oregon

<BoTM>J_Aero wrote:

Like usual, ATG, you're creating too many problems for me to be able to organise and respond to at once effectively, so I might pick which brush fires to douse, somewhat selectively.

First I'll try and broadly outline what you've asked for:
Brutality towards Iraq as a method of achieving stability.
You use the word murder in reference to that brutality, implying killing without justification.
Taking of oil, property of another nation, by decree (basically theft), an empty and pointless declaration of victory ( haven't we had one of those already) and what amounts to regime change of anywhere that doesn't agree with your own sense of foreign policy (sure you're not Donald Rumsfeld in disguise?). After that it gets kind of angry and vengeful, like you want to be God from the old testament.

I don't have a problem with you, it's with your reasoning: who has hacked your account and had you portraying Osama as speaking for all Muslims, as if Dale Evans Barlow speaks for all Christians, such is the absurdity of the claim you make.

So basically, brutality as a method of pacification or achieving stability might achieve a short termreduction of violence, but will in the long term result in a more catastrophic failure. It leads to the worship of martyrs (see Palestine), the further encouragement of resistance (see Afghanistan) and the rise of historically significant leaders in the country (see USA War of Independence, Civil War).

The state condoning murder is an idea that doesn't take much reasoning to reveal the holes in. In short, it would undermine it's operations in the country it is occupying, in terms of it's pretense at establishing rule of law, and at home, by being such a huge contradiction to laws it enforces in it's home jurisdiction.

The taking of the property of another nation, Iraq's oil being a perfect example, amounts to nothing more than theft. Yes, you could say it was to pay for the cost in lives, equipment and expense the United States and its allies have contributed. Yet that still wouldn't be justification, the previous Iraqi government / regime or the people did not ask to be invaded, and the idea of asking for recompense for something inflicted on another nation, against their will, is illogical.

The idea of attacking Mecca, the place of Hajj for the Islamic people is ridiculous, you really can't equate a place of unrivalled religious significance to millions of people with two office towers, not even 50 years old, that may have been symbolic of the economic power of the USA, but certainly weren't part of the spiritual lives in a deeper sense that the Ka'aba has meant for over a millenia.

Though you may characterise the people of the middle east as backwards and animalistic, it is all a matter of perspective. To them, you, as a modern American, are every bit as strange and indecipherable, with your consumerism. They too have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness that Thomas Jefferson wrote so eloquently of, you have no right to take that away from them. If they choose to live their lives that way, so be it.

Finally, I know I've directed this at ATG, because of his particular comments in this thread, but many people in this section say similar kinds of things, and so, consider this a warning to all of you. American ethnocentrism is not an acceptable way of governing the planet.
the basic frustration of this entire thread, is that right or wrong, we have given the people of Iraq the chance to live free of universally shitty dictator.  Upon receiving this opportunity, they have chosen to instead engage in archaic, animalistic, feud war.  We simply overestimated their willingness to embrace life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, they'd rather cut each others heads off and blow up children.  what's that you say?  The moderates want happiness and all that crap?  Then they need to man up, pick up an AK, and get to work.

If extremists get to choose our (American ethnocentrics) landmarks and symbols, why can't we choose theirs.  They identify us as capitalists, we identify them as Muslims.  Razing Mecca would perhaps be an extreme response to to being attacked, but it would certainly get the point across, maybe more than invading two Nations.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7049|132 and Bush

He seems to think we rallied around office buildings (Compared to mecca) also. Our spiritual lives were in the people that died that day, not the places they were. We would gladly go to war and die for our loved ones, our will and determination does not come from a map.

Last edited by Kmarion (2007-04-12 23:24:44)

Xbone Stormsurgezz
m3thod
All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz
+2,197|7119|UK

ATG wrote:

Bullshit.

* edit

They came here to The United States of America and slaughtered my people, I would have cheered our marines if they had mounted heads on pikes along the road  all  the way to Mecca.
Then you would have a 1 billion people after American blood....9/11 would be a picnic.

Your lust for Muslim blood clouds your rational thinking....pretty pathetic for someone who has something between his ears.
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+796|7132|United States of America
Let's invade and overthrow the Iraqi government!
JahManRed
wank
+646|7076|IRELAND

I made a Thread back in November which was largely ignored which was pointing out what K' says in his OP. I wrote it after seeing this documentary. http://www.channel4.com/news/dispatches … ath_squads
If you can get it a torrent or whatever I suggest watching it. It highlights the ties between the Insurgents and Iraqi Politicians and how the US administration ignored warnings by Ex US city police chefs and city administrators put in place as advisers on nation building. They advised that the death squad killings are linked to politicians who want to turn Iraq into a Shia state aligned to Iran.
There are links between the death squads and high-ranking Shia politicians. The Shia militia that these politicians control have systematically infiltrated and taken over police units like the Baghdad Commando squad whom every member was a member of the Mardi Army who were recruited in one mass group by New Iraqi ministers to do their will. These politicians are aligned with hard liners like Muctada al-Sadr. Even entire government ministries have been infiltrated. These special police units are closely linked to the death squads, indeed they often are the death squads. And the killers act with impunity. There's little investigation into their activities as internal affairs and the serious crime units are too scared themselves to investigate these police units.
Special American advisers to the police and various government departments have been warning the Iraqi and American administrations that the present government has been infiltrated at every level by Shia extremists intent on ethnically cleansing Iraqi on the Coalition withdrawal.



I am seeing a pattern here. I am not being smug. The so called 'libs' point something out, its defended by the so called 'neo-cons' simply because they have to argue the other side because its a point raised by their "political enemy" then 6 months later the more open minded 'neo-con' start to see that what the 'libs' were ranting about 6months ago was not just to have a dig at the US but was actually the truth. So think before you label us "Terrorist allies", because in 6months your contemporaries will be agreeing.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6977|Global Command

Reciprocity wrote:

<BoTM>J_Aero wrote:

Like usual, ATG, you're creating too many problems for me to be able to organise and respond to at once effectively, so I might pick which brush fires to douse, somewhat selectively.

First I'll try and broadly outline what you've asked for:
Brutality towards Iraq as a method of achieving stability.
You use the word murder in reference to that brutality, implying killing without justification.
Taking of oil, property of another nation, by decree (basically theft), an empty and pointless declaration of victory ( haven't we had one of those already) and what amounts to regime change of anywhere that doesn't agree with your own sense of foreign policy (sure you're not Donald Rumsfeld in disguise?). After that it gets kind of angry and vengeful, like you want to be God from the old testament.

I don't have a problem with you, it's with your reasoning: who has hacked your account and had you portraying Osama as speaking for all Muslims, as if Dale Evans Barlow speaks for all Christians, such is the absurdity of the claim you make.

So basically, brutality as a method of pacification or achieving stability might achieve a short termreduction of violence, but will in the long term result in a more catastrophic failure. It leads to the worship of martyrs (see Palestine), the further encouragement of resistance (see Afghanistan) and the rise of historically significant leaders in the country (see USA War of Independence, Civil War).

The state condoning murder is an idea that doesn't take much reasoning to reveal the holes in. In short, it would undermine it's operations in the country it is occupying, in terms of it's pretense at establishing rule of law, and at home, by being such a huge contradiction to laws it enforces in it's home jurisdiction.

The taking of the property of another nation, Iraq's oil being a perfect example, amounts to nothing more than theft. Yes, you could say it was to pay for the cost in lives, equipment and expense the United States and its allies have contributed. Yet that still wouldn't be justification, the previous Iraqi government / regime or the people did not ask to be invaded, and the idea of asking for recompense for something inflicted on another nation, against their will, is illogical.

The idea of attacking Mecca, the place of Hajj for the Islamic people is ridiculous, you really can't equate a place of unrivalled religious significance to millions of people with two office towers, not even 50 years old, that may have been symbolic of the economic power of the USA, but certainly weren't part of the spiritual lives in a deeper sense that the Ka'aba has meant for over a millenia.

Though you may characterise the people of the middle east as backwards and animalistic, it is all a matter of perspective. To them, you, as a modern American, are every bit as strange and indecipherable, with your consumerism. They too have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness that Thomas Jefferson wrote so eloquently of, you have no right to take that away from them. If they choose to live their lives that way, so be it.

Finally, I know I've directed this at ATG, because of his particular comments in this thread, but many people in this section say similar kinds of things, and so, consider this a warning to all of you. American ethnocentrism is not an acceptable way of governing the planet.
the basic frustration of this entire thread, is that right or wrong, we have given the people of Iraq the chance to live free of universally shitty dictator.  Upon receiving this opportunity, they have chosen to instead engage in archaic, animalistic, feud war.  We simply overestimated their willingness to embrace life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, they'd rather cut each others heads off and blow up children.  what's that you say?  The moderates want happiness and all that crap?  Then they need to man up, pick up an AK, and get to work.

If extremists get to choose our (American ethnocentrics) landmarks and symbols, why can't we choose theirs.  They identify us as capitalists, we identify them as Muslims.  Razing Mecca would perhaps be an extreme response to to being attacked, but it would certainly get the point across, maybe more than invading two Nations.
Hard to top your reply.

m3thod wrote:

ATG wrote:

Bullshit.

* edit

They came here to The United States of America and slaughtered my people, I would have cheered our marines if they had mounted heads on pikes along the road  all  the way to Mecca.
Then you would have a 1 billion people after American blood....9/11 would be a picnic.

Your lust for Muslim blood clouds your rational thinking....pretty pathetic for someone who has something between his ears.
Muslims may solve this simply' deal with their own issues.
Joshykiller1
Member
+3|6673
We should leave Afgan and Iraq before something terrable happens. What would u think would happen if these countryies and allies with China or russia we would lose.

The Iraq government hates us being there its like troops coming to US and taking control over the whole of the country.

Let me point this out, why can US can say we have to invade this country cause they got weapons ETC.

What if China or Russia turn round and say to US we got to invade your country cause of mass destrustion weapons. You wouldnt like it.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7205|Argentina
Your enemy is in that picture.
JahManRed
wank
+646|7076|IRELAND

The leveling of Mecca was touted as the response to 9/11 by some of the Neo-Conservative movement and it saddens me to here it repeated here, totally fucking sick and if people honestly think that's an appropriate response, then they go right into the same category as the 9/11 hijacker's.

Mecca is the center of all Muslims religion around the world and you would have every moderate Muslim grabbing an AK across the globe if it was as much as scrapped. But then maybe that's the plan.

By that reasoning the Vatican city should have been leveled because the predominately Catholic IRA committed atrocities against non Catholics. Violence begets violence....think you might have learned that by now ffs.......................

Last edited by JahManRed (2007-04-13 06:46:02)

m3thod
All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz
+2,197|7119|UK

ATG wrote:

Reciprocity wrote:

<BoTM>J_Aero wrote:

Like usual, ATG, you're creating too many problems for me to be able to organise and respond to at once effectively, so I might pick which brush fires to douse, somewhat selectively.

First I'll try and broadly outline what you've asked for:
Brutality towards Iraq as a method of achieving stability.
You use the word murder in reference to that brutality, implying killing without justification.
Taking of oil, property of another nation, by decree (basically theft), an empty and pointless declaration of victory ( haven't we had one of those already) and what amounts to regime change of anywhere that doesn't agree with your own sense of foreign policy (sure you're not Donald Rumsfeld in disguise?). After that it gets kind of angry and vengeful, like you want to be God from the old testament.

I don't have a problem with you, it's with your reasoning: who has hacked your account and had you portraying Osama as speaking for all Muslims, as if Dale Evans Barlow speaks for all Christians, such is the absurdity of the claim you make.

So basically, brutality as a method of pacification or achieving stability might achieve a short termreduction of violence, but will in the long term result in a more catastrophic failure. It leads to the worship of martyrs (see Palestine), the further encouragement of resistance (see Afghanistan) and the rise of historically significant leaders in the country (see USA War of Independence, Civil War).

The state condoning murder is an idea that doesn't take much reasoning to reveal the holes in. In short, it would undermine it's operations in the country it is occupying, in terms of it's pretense at establishing rule of law, and at home, by being such a huge contradiction to laws it enforces in it's home jurisdiction.

The taking of the property of another nation, Iraq's oil being a perfect example, amounts to nothing more than theft. Yes, you could say it was to pay for the cost in lives, equipment and expense the United States and its allies have contributed. Yet that still wouldn't be justification, the previous Iraqi government / regime or the people did not ask to be invaded, and the idea of asking for recompense for something inflicted on another nation, against their will, is illogical.

The idea of attacking Mecca, the place of Hajj for the Islamic people is ridiculous, you really can't equate a place of unrivalled religious significance to millions of people with two office towers, not even 50 years old, that may have been symbolic of the economic power of the USA, but certainly weren't part of the spiritual lives in a deeper sense that the Ka'aba has meant for over a millenia.

Though you may characterise the people of the middle east as backwards and animalistic, it is all a matter of perspective. To them, you, as a modern American, are every bit as strange and indecipherable, with your consumerism. They too have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness that Thomas Jefferson wrote so eloquently of, you have no right to take that away from them. If they choose to live their lives that way, so be it.

Finally, I know I've directed this at ATG, because of his particular comments in this thread, but many people in this section say similar kinds of things, and so, consider this a warning to all of you. American ethnocentrism is not an acceptable way of governing the planet.
the basic frustration of this entire thread, is that right or wrong, we have given the people of Iraq the chance to live free of universally shitty dictator.  Upon receiving this opportunity, they have chosen to instead engage in archaic, animalistic, feud war.  We simply overestimated their willingness to embrace life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, they'd rather cut each others heads off and blow up children.  what's that you say?  The moderates want happiness and all that crap?  Then they need to man up, pick up an AK, and get to work.

If extremists get to choose our (American ethnocentrics) landmarks and symbols, why can't we choose theirs.  They identify us as capitalists, we identify them as Muslims.  Razing Mecca would perhaps be an extreme response to to being attacked, but it would certainly get the point across, maybe more than invading two Nations.
Hard to top your reply.

m3thod wrote:

ATG wrote:

Bullshit.

* edit


Then you would have a 1 billion people after American blood....9/11 would be a picnic.

Your lust for Muslim blood clouds your rational thinking....pretty pathetic for someone who has something between his ears.
Muslims may solve this simply' deal with their own issues.
It's just not that simple.  Islam isn't structured like the church is, it's not a organisation where there is a formal hierarchy where orders are issued and commands are expected to be followed.  Add to this the rival factions of Sunni and Shia we have a melting pot of ideals and behaviour.

No one Muslim has outright authority.  You expect some leader to step forward and curb all Islamic extremism where as in reality it's groups and individuals have hijacked the faith to carry out political beliefs.  This is about power, money and corruption.

Your beef is with terrorists, fair enough....how you choose to deal with them be it through blowing the shit out of them or via diplomatic means is your problem.  Your 'solution' lets the Muslims deal with their issues is inherently flawed when ultimately their issues are rooted with you the Americans and us the west.
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7049|132 and Bush

DesertFox423 wrote:

Let's invade and overthrow the Iraqi government!
lol.. well we are half way there .

Last edited by Kmarion (2007-04-13 07:54:58)

Xbone Stormsurgezz
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6977|Global Command

JahManRed wrote:

The leveling of Mecca was touted as the response to 9/11 by some of the Neo-Conservative movement and it saddens me to here it repeated here, totally fucking sick and if people honestly think that's an appropriate response, then they go right into the same category as the 9/11 hijacker's.

Mecca is the center of all Muslims religion around the world and you would have every moderate Muslim grabbing an AK across the globe if it was as much as scrapped. But then maybe that's the plan.

By that reasoning the Vatican city should have been leveled because the predominately Catholic IRA committed atrocities against non Catholics. Violence begets violence....think you might have learned that by now ffs.......................
It is sick. War is sick.
They attacked us.


And it was a hypothetical response to future attacks. We need to let Islam know there will be bad stuff that happens if the attack civilian targets.

Notice the military attack on the U.S. Cole did not generate near as much outrage as 9-11.

You want to attack our military? Fine, fair enough.
You want to attack cities? Fine, be preparred for genocidal wrath.
JahManRed
wank
+646|7076|IRELAND

ATG wrote:

It is sick. War is sick.
They attacked us.
They, being extremists................attack the extremists all you want, but what gives yous the right to collectively punish a predominately peaceful religion over the actions of a very few?

ATG wrote:

And it was a hypothetical response to future attacks. We need to let Islam know there will be bad stuff that happens if the attack civilian targets.
No...........and this is the problem. You don't need to let Islam know anything........you need to let the Extremists know............again stop blurring the lines between moderate Muslims who by far are in the majority with religious nutters. Don't forget they exist in Christianity too.

ATG wrote:

Notice the military attack on the U.S. Cole did not generate near as much outrage as 9-11.

You want to attack our military? Fine, fair enough.
You want to attack cities? Fine, be prepared for genocidal wrath.
Yes I totally agree attack the extremists, bomb the nations who harbour them. I agreed with the Afghan mission because of this. But this righteous argument fails because the US (if bound by your last statement) took a wrong turn in the ME and went into Iraqi instead of Saudi.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7049|132 and Bush

Part of the problem is the value we put on life. Not to say Islam does not care about life, but they have had a thousand years of genocide and ethnic cleansing to master sacrifice.
Xbone Stormsurgezz

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