BF2S Forums Amadinejad to 'Wipe Israel off the face of the map'? No.

Stingray24 wrote:

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/10/26/ahmadinejad/index.html

TEHRAN, Iran (CNN) -- Iran's new president has repeated a remark from a former ayatollah that Israel should be "wiped out from the map," insisting that a new series of attacks will destroy the Jewish state, and lashing out at Muslim countries and leaders that acknowledge Israel.

The remarks by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad -- reported by Islamic Republic News Agency -- coincide with a month-long protest against Israel called "World without Zionism" and with the approach of Jerusalem Day.

World without Zionism is a nationwide event the planners intend to hold annually, and Ahmadinejad made the remarks during a meeting with protesting students at the Interior Ministry.

Ahmadinejad quoted a remark from Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini, the founder of Iran's Islamic revolution, who said that Israel "must be wiped out from the map of the world."

The president then said: "And God willing, with the force of God behind it, we shall soon experience a world without the United States and Zionism," according to a quote published by IRNA.
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If he was quoting him, doesn't that imply agreement with the statement?  His own statement is at the end of the section above . . . his intentions are quite clear.

Stingray24 wrote:

Let's assume AJ didn't agree with the imam's statement, M3thod.  Read his separate statement below, for the THIRD TIME.  Any commentary on that? 

"The president then said: 'And God willing, with the force of God behind it, we shall soon experience a world without the United States and Zionism,' according to a quote published by IRNA."

That's the Islamic Republic News Agency reporting, not Fox News.

konfusion wrote:

I'm for the "wiping off the map of Israel" - just not with nukes. If not, then at least give some of the land back.

-konfusion

RicardoBlanco wrote:

It seems there is a common misconception on this forum that Iran's leader, Mahmoud Amadinejad, said he was going to 'wipe Israel off the face of the map'. This is what he actually said...

Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/print.asp?ID=5866

All he was doing was quoting Khomeni on something he said years ago. He makes no referance to Israel, maps or nukes.

I'd also like to say that the west is far better at propaganda than the middle east. This I think is case in point.

Stingray24 wrote:

konfusion wrote:

usmarine2005 wrote:

wow

I think you may have misinterpreted me: Give the land either completely or partially back to Palestine - wipe the borders of Israel - or Israel as a country - off the map, not the civilization.

-konfusion

Adding those details changes a lot.  You'd like them to be moved, not annihilated then.  Where would you suggest the nation of Israel be tranported to?

Last edited by GunSlinger OIF II (2007-04-11 11:05:44)

ATG wrote:

RicardoBlanco wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/10/26/ahmadinejad/index.html

TEHRAN, Iran (CNN) -- Iran's new president has repeated a remark from a former ayatollah that Israel should be "wiped out from the map," insisting that a new series of attacks will destroy the Jewish state, and lashing out at Muslim countries and leaders that acknowledge Israel.

The remarks by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad -- reported by Islamic Republic News Agency -- coincide with a month-long protest against Israel called "World without Zionism" and with the approach of Jerusalem Day.

World without Zionism is a nationwide event the planners intend to hold annually, and Ahmadinejad made the remarks during a meeting with protesting students at the Interior Ministry.

Ahmadinejad quoted a remark from Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini, the founder of Iran's Islamic revolution, who said that Israel "must be wiped out from the map of the world."

The president then said: "And God willing, with the force of God behind it, we shall soon experience a world without the United States and Zionism," according to a quote published by IRNA.
-----------------
If he was quoting him, doesn't that imply agreement with the statement?  His own statement is at the end of the section above . . . his intentions are quite clear.

It's all about translation:

Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).

Map? Nukes? Israel? USA? No.

Sounds like a threat to me.

Stingray24 wrote:

So you interpret the phrase as a threat and also believe we distorted it? 

I have to disagree that the stance the US takes against Iran is the same as Iran's approach to Israel.  We have never threatened to wipe Iran off the map or make them "vanish from the page of time".

Last edited by Fen321 (2007-04-11 12:15:55)

Fen321 wrote:

. . . I discussed this issue in my Arms Control class  -- seeing as the teacher is quick to lambaste anything Iranian. Granted, other fellow class members responded to my support of a regime that they see as incoherent and irrational -- they same way the professor did. I always get a kick out of their one argument against Iran -- the lovely wipe Israel off the map argument. Its classic its usually followed by other short generalizations all in all to justify any aggressive action towards them.

So what happens when its a mis-translation.....nothing

Jonathan Steele wrote:

The New York Times goes on: "The second translation issue concerns the word 'map'. Khomeini's words were abstract: 'Sahneh roozgar.' Sahneh means scene or stage, and roozgar means time. The phrase was widely interpreted as 'map', and for years, no one objected. In October, when Mr Ahmadinejad quoted Khomeini, he actually misquoted him, saying not 'Sahneh roozgar' but 'Safheh roozgar', meaning pages of time or history. No one noticed the change, and news agencies used the word 'map' again."

This, in my view, is the crucial point and I'm glad the NYT accepts that the word "map" was not used by Ahmadinejad. (By the way, the Wikipedia entry on the controversy gets the NYT wrong, claiming falsely that Ethan Bronner "concluded that Ahmadinejad had in fact said that Israel was to be wiped off the map".)

If the Iranian president made a mistake and used "safheh" rather than "sahneh", that is of little moment. A native English speaker could equally confuse "stage of history" with "page of history". The significant issue is that both phrases refer to time rather than place. As I wrote in my original post, the Iranian president was expressing a vague wish for the future. He was not threatening an Iranian-initiated war to remove Israeli control over Jerusalem.