BF2S Forums Eagal and Atheism - Act 1 - Introduction

Dezerteagal5 wrote:

doublestuforeo wrote:

If you can get 80% of the earth's population to suggest that they have felt the influence of a teapot in space, I might lend some credibility to your argument.

You Atheists pretend that us believers are close minded and gullible, but your post comparing God to a teapot shows how simple minded and ridiculous you are.

1. That is whats terrifying about religion, whoever invented god in there head was a fool, no doubt, but when he preached it to the lowly populated world, it spread quickly, then became a standard belief.

2. The story of god and the story of the teapot are the same.

Lets take a look at the greek gods. If i told you there was "a man in a chariot pulling the sun across the sky", what would you say? Bullshit
I project, that in 100-200 years, the same will be said for the pathetic god you believe in now.

If god really wanted more believers, he would show his face. thats enough to make any man believe. But he doesnt, thats because he is fake, and the sooner the world realizes it, the better they will be, i know its probly hard for you guys to admit being wrong, i hate admitting im wrong, but really, you need to.

*sigh* eagal, this is what snipey and orange are talking about. the animosity atheists put forth against religion, God, and religious people..... if it bothers u that much... i mean cmon, let us believe what we want to believe. i dont put down the fact that you are an atheist. doesnt bother me at all. i know that one day, u'll find out... just you need to be put in that oppurtunity.

no Christian, Muslim, or Jew is going to try and PROVE that there is a God, there is no proof.

what i, personally, believe (here comes the "zomg he was raised Christian, LAWL, he has no mind, close minded fool, lolololawlalw9l") is that God left little snipets of things to help us along to finding, beliving, in God.

just my opinion.

Last edited by Des.Kmal (2007-04-05 13:14:56)

The evidence would be if it shows up on radar. Or perhaps in the logs of someone blasting it out from earth orbit to acheive a solar one.

A lack of evidence DOES disprove something. Lack of evidence means a suspect goes free.

If the world worked the way you said it did, I could call you a murderer, you would be electrocuted, and that would be that.
Also, a book is not evidence of an entire creation myth.

Absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. So there could be a god. But it's as high as a chance that Russia doesn't have nuclear weapons.

OrangeHound wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

doublestuforeo wrote:

I am a Christian.  I will not speak for other religions, but I will say this:

The existance of the man, Jesus of Nazareth, is as close to fact as anything else in our history books.  Hundreds of people close to his life, many of which were eyewitnesses to his life, wrote of him.
This does not prove that he is the Son of God.  However, if not, he was a con man the likes of which we have seldom seen.

Wrong.  Find me one account of anyone writing about him that saw, touched, or heard his voice.

Quoting from FF Bruce:  "Some may toy with the fancy of a Christ-myth, but they do not do so on the ground of historical evidence.  The historicity of Christ is as axiomatic for an unbiased historian as the historicity of Julius Ceaser.  It is not historians who propagate the "Christ-myth' theories."

Most of the eye-witnesses became Christians, and their writings are part of the Bible or apocryphal works.  However, let's set aside the Christians for a moment ... there are first century Jewish & Roman (non-Christian) historians of the time who describe Jesus of Nazareth, including:

• Cornelius Tacitus, Roman historian
• Flavius Josephus, Jewish historian
• The Jewish Talmuds (see page 53)
• Phlegon, historian
• Thallus, Samaritan historian

Of course, there will always be many with either ignorance or agendas who will continue to propagate the idea that a historical Jesus never existed, just as there are those who propagate the lie that the Jewish Holocaust didn't happen.

Of those historians the only one I am familiar with is Tacitus. Who was born after Jesus died. He therefore did not see him, touch him, or hear his voice.

That does little to convince me that your other sources are people who had actually had contact with Jesus.

(although I do think he did exist)

A man named Jesus (a translation from Hebrew to Greek to English) probably did exist in those times around those areas.  It was a common name.  There are no firsthand writings about any man named Jesus who lived the pious, clairvoyant, extraordinary life portrayed in the bible.

There are many historical and archaic writings about man-god myths, including from Greece and Ancient Rome.

KylieTastic wrote:

jsnipy wrote:

Wow you are very defensive (early 20's at most?). If I was going to put you down, I would make it very apparent.

37 - I just noticed this is junk rather than D&ST... so that's why I was countering your point!

jsnipy wrote:

I'm saying it is easier to give up rather than searching for that which created us -- what or whoever that maybe. Maybe something like the physical signs of an infection exists, maybe you cannot see it .

Why do you think we have given up searching? I would think that fact that so many Atheists post here prove that we do think about it. I treat religion the same as my scientific beliefs..... the best always remember that there is absolutely nothing 100% true... and sometimes some things that were believed 99.99% are proved wrong. But the more I read/hear arguments for theism the more convinced I am there is no deity.... but I do and always will challenge that belief along with the rest.

jsnipy wrote:

The faulty premise you are starting with is that you are smarter than everyone else before you. Usually the first of univesity does this to you.

Where do I say I'm smarter? There are several that do say "I'm right, your wrong, and I know that cuz I'm smarter" on these forums on both sides of arguments but please don't tar everyone that argues against you as having that stand point.

jsnipy wrote:

I'll add to that organized religion as we know it sets a bad example, just like organization that are setup to cure things like cancer. In the end they turn into somethign that just wants to propigate itself at any cost.

Agreed, bad religion is very alike to bad science... unfortunately man is involved in both.
In-fact to be devils advocate I would say that this is a tad more evidence to Atheism as organised religions should be better if one or more was baked by a real deity.

good retort +1

Vilham wrote:

jsnipy wrote:

By your rational, we would have never believed that germs existed because we could not see them, touch them, feel them. Maybe all of the tools that are needed to find such proof are not available to us at this point in time much like microscopes were not available to earlier peoples. I think that some cling to atheism because it is easier, I'm sure religious zealots play a part in driving people away as well. I feel Christianity is one perspective out of many to the same end result.

Your an idiot. Germs leave marks and are visible. Your whole argument is very ignorant of science.

Did you pay attention in first grade when they teach you that germs are microscopic? Apparently not. It's unusual to see someone flame another person when they're so blantantly, ridiculously wrong.

Vilham wrote:

chittydog wrote:

Vilham wrote:

Your an idiot. Germs leave marks and are visible. Your whole argument is very ignorant of science.

Did you pay attention in first grade when they teach you that germs are microscopic? Apparently not. It's unusual to see someone flame another person when they're so blantantly, ridiculously wrong.

You realise we have machines that allow us to see the particles that make up an atom right? Something millions of times smaller than a germ, never heard of an electron microscope? Or are you naturally retarded?

simma down nah chillin

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2007-04-05 15:33:21)

Vilham wrote:

chittydog wrote:

Vilham wrote:

Your an idiot. Germs leave marks and are visible. Your whole argument is very ignorant of science.

Did you pay attention in first grade when they teach you that germs are microscopic? Apparently not. It's unusual to see someone flame another person when they're so blantantly, ridiculously wrong.

You realise we have machines that allow us to see the particles that make up an atom right? Something millions of times smaller than a germ, never heard of an electron microscope? Or are you naturally retarded?

Wow! The peanut gallery is angry today. I guess this guy didn't even read the post he was flaming before. Let me quote the important part of it that he didn't read:

jsnipy wrote:

By your rational, we would have never believed that germs existed because we could not see them, touch them, feel them. Maybe all of the tools that are needed to find such proof are not available to us at this point in time much like microscopes were not available to earlier peoples.

It's not nice to call names and flame when you don't realize what you're talking about.

Vilham wrote:

chittydog wrote:

Vilham wrote:

You realise we have machines that allow us to see the particles that make up an atom right? Something millions of times smaller than a germ, never heard of an electron microscope? Or are you naturally retarded?

Wow! The peanut gallery is angry today. I guess this guy didn't even read the post he was flaming before. Let me quote the important part of it that he didn't read:

jsnipy wrote:

By your rational, we would have never believed that germs existed because we could not see them, touch them, feel them. Maybe all of the tools that are needed to find such proof are not available to us at this point in time much like microscopes were not available to earlier peoples.

It's not nice to call names and flame when you don't realize what you're talking about.

I know exactly what im talking about. You are correct though that i didnt fully read his post, that has nothing to do with know what im talking about though, its called arguing the wrong point.

As to his post its still ridiculus, there can never be something that would detect a god even if he did exist.

Call it what you want.

Anyway, we can't say for sure that nothing would ever be able to detect a god. Maybe you're right and we can't. Maybe we just don't know what to measure. I like to keep this in mind:

The world is moving so fast these days that the man who says it can't be done is generally interrupted by someone doing it.
--Harry Emerson Fosdick

An arguement against religion was given a while ago using a story about a teapot:

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=68878

Dezerteagal5 wrote:

Do you believe in magic? Answer this question in your head right now you'll need the answer later.

Here's a little story for you all...

Did you know there is a teapot orbiting the sun in space? Oh yes.
It's too small to pick up on any telescope though.
Actually, theres no evidence proving its really there.
But i believe. Why do i believe?
Well, because theres no evidence proving it ISNT there.
And i was told it's there, so i believe.



Hi folks, im Mitch, AKA Dezerteagal5 AKA Eagal. And im here to tell you that the story above, is very similar to a thing people call religion.

Now, would you believe that story if someone told it to you? I sure wouldn't, and i dont think any logical person would.

And when someone tells me something, i ask for proof, facts, evidence. I would think any logical person does? Right?

Well why would someone believe in a god? And the act of creating something out of nothing is magic. If you said no earlier to the question "Do you believe in magic?" Then you in fact, by logic, shouldn't believe in god.

The end.
I hope i've inlightened people a little bit.

Now I disagree with this illustration entirely. I don't believe that the story proves (or helps to prove) that there is no God. Nor does it prove (or help to prove) that there is one.
What I took from the story is that it doesn't matter.
The teapot will never enter my life, as God no doubt will never physically enter ours. The teapot/God may affect our lives if we choose to believe or not believe in it, and for that reason I feel that they both have importance in some people's lives.
Does God exist? It doesn't matter. If you choose to believe he exists then you have chosen it for a reason, perhaps looking for an answer to the world, or for a parental figure that you lack, or someone to talk to when you are alone or when no-one else can help.
For these people God is a useful tool, and his material existence is not important, because his existence within the minds of the people who believe in him serves a crucial purpose.

I do not believe in God, but I do not believe he does not exist. It doesn't matter to me because I don't feel I need to believe in him to carry on with my life. But I do understand his importance, particularly to my parents who are very strong Anglicans. God has made their lives fuller, and they are much kinder, more respected people for believing in him. This power is undeniable.

Was the Bible written by the deciples of the physical manifestation of God on earth (Jesus Christ)? It doesn't matter. But if you are in a place where you do not know what to do, and you want to know what the right thing to do is, the bible provides illustrations and stories that can help guide you. For this reason I see the Bible as a way to live a good life, although I choose not to use it, because I believe I can choose what the right thing to do is without its help.

Is what I am saying right? It doesn't matter. Choose to believe what you want to believe and don't let anyone else tell you otherwise. You will choose it for a reason, and whatever you choose, you will have a need for it in your life.

People will disagree with what I have written, because that is the nature of man, you cannot please everyone. But I like other people's opinions, because it shows me what they need in life to feel whole, and to have the right to exist. Please let me know how you feel this ties with your life, and tell me why you choose to or choose not to believe in God or any other religion. And what purpose to your beliefs serve in your lives.

Thank you