BF2S Forums Give me a reason to be Conservative....

Mr.Pieeater wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

You get to keep poor people poor and laugh at them as you pass them by in your fancy car.

This is a common thing for Liberals to say; however, people like CameronPoe are probably living nice normal middle-class lives and think they know where poor people are coming from.  CameronPoe doesn't know about poor people and niether do I, but the United States offers ANYONE the chance to make a great life for themselves and move up in the social structure of the States.  Anyone who says that society is keeping the poor people poor is just placing the blame somewhere where it should not be.  The blame is on the person who is poor, because choices they have made in life have put them in that place.  Take Oprah Winfrey (spelling) for example, she was very poor and now look at her!!!  Just the simple fact that she did that proves Mr. CameronPoe wrong.  Its not about the fact that Oprah is a very successful example, but its the fact that it is possible to do that.  That point can't be argued against by anyone who has reason in thier minds.

So Campoe doesn't know what it's like to be poor, but you do because you know Oprah's story?  You know how poor people think, act, and their background?  Clearly no poor person is mentally challenged or disabled.  And clearly if they are one of the two, they still are to blame, not a society that completely forgets about them (Republocrats included).

How can you say he doesn't know about poor people, admit that YOU don't know about poor people, but then in the same breath say that you DO know how/why people are poor?

BAH.

CameronPoe wrote:

Mr.Pieeater wrote:

This is a common thing for Liberals to say; however, people like CameronPoe are probably living nice normal middle-class lives and think they know where poor people are coming from.  CameronPoe doesn't know about poor people and niether do I, but the United States offers ANYONE the chance to make a great life for themselves and move up in the social structure of the States.  Anyone who says that society is keeping the poor people poor is just placing the blame somewhere where it should not be.  The blame is on the person who is poor, because choices they have made decisions in life that have put them in that place.  Take Oprah Winfrey (spelling) for example, she was very poor and now look at her!!!  Just the simple fact that she did that proves Mr. CameronPoe wrong.  Its not about the fact that Oprah is a very successful example, but its the fact that it is possible to do that.  That point can't be argued against by anyone who has reason in thier minds.

Note to CameronPoe:  Since you want to help poor people, what kind of charities have you donated money to??  Do you donate on a regular basis?  Do you give homeless people on the side of the street money?  Do you volunteer at food banks?  What do you do to help get the poor out of poverty?  Give me a list buddy...  Go ahead, I'm waiting...

LOL. My father had to make ends meet in rural Donegal in the 1980s when Ireland was the equivalent of Bosnia. Most of the time he collected dole and tried to grab whatever work he could when there was enormous competition around him and everyone was desperate. A huge amount of people left the country for the USA and the UK. There were no banks handing out loans to entrepreneurs. Nobody was gonna give anyone in Donegal a mortgage.

The taxes of those that did have work paid for my family's medical card and dental expenses. The policy of my government of abolishing university fees and providing subsistence grants to those below a certain income level allowed me to jump from a world of survival to a world of comfort. Thankfully today my parents also enjoy this level of comfort. Don't give me your fucking Oprah stories sonny jim. If you see how barren an area I come from, how bad an economic blackspot it was, how desperate a situation existed there (one of the highest rates of suicide in western Europe) then you'd certainly have a very different opinion of my background.

For the record the two charities part of my salary goes to (by direct debit) are the following:

- ElectricAid   ...    http://www.esb.ie/main/about_esb/about_electric_aid.jsp

- Goal  ...   http://www.goal.ie/

Please give generously if you think you can spare any. I also give generously to any causes at work or in the street that I feel warrant some of my cash.

Welcome to Donegal:

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/3664/errigal4ta6.jpg

You get high speed intrenets in that rock hut?
rad.

superfly_cox wrote:

In other words, if you earn $100 dollars the:
-liberal would want $50 in taxes and would in turn say that they will provide you and the general poplace with all sort of social programs: health care, pension, unemployment support etc.
-conservatives would want $30 in taxes and would offer far fewer social services thereby making you take responsibility for some of those things for yourself...although they also cover dire emergencies.

By far, the best description of a liberal vs. conservative I've ever seen.

I tend to be in the middle and I think everyone should be too.  It angers me when a big vote comes up and someone doesn't read the voters pamphlet... they just vote the straight party ticket.

I wouldn't label myself if I were you.  I'd go independent and decide for yourself what you feel is right on each and every issue.

Edit:  And if you have problems deciding on certain issues, get online and google them.  I guarantee you you'll find one website for the "Vote for this!" and one for the "Vote against this!".  Then read the both of them and use that information to decide.

Last edited by Rosebudteg (2007-04-03 13:26:40)

CameronPoe wrote:

Rosebudteg wrote:

superfly_cox wrote:

In other words, if you earn $100 dollars the:
-liberal would want $50 in taxes and would in turn say that they will provide you and the general poplace with all sort of social programs: health care, pension, unemployment support etc.
-conservatives would want $30 in taxes and would offer far fewer social services thereby making you take responsibility for some of those things for yourself...although they also cover dire emergencies.

By far, the best description of a liberal vs. conservative I've ever seen.

I tend to be in the middle and I think everyone should be too.  It angers me when a big vote comes up and someone doesn't read the voters pamphlet... they just vote the straight party ticket.

I wouldn't label myself if I were you.  I'd go independent and decide for yourself what you feel is right on each and every issue.

Edit:  And if you have problems deciding on certain issues, get online and google them.  I guarantee you you'll find one website for the "Vote for this!" and one for the "Vote against this!".  Then read the both of them and use that information to decide.

The problem is that those conservative principles only work in certain situations. When something like Hurricane Katrina happens all that lovely logic goes out the window - no saftey net: chaos.

see you all have it wrong. communism was and still is the way to go.

The answer to everything political is this:

- If a conservative government has been in power too long and is losing the run of itself, vote liberal.
- If a liberal government has been in power too long and is losing the run of itself, vote conservative.

The wonderful balanced circle of life. The middle path is the best but unfortunately politics is quite binary. That is why you'll have one government who bring things in one direction, overdo it and fuck things up eventually, followed by another government who'll bring things in another direction, overdo it and fuck things up eventually. Too much of either is always a bad thing in the end.

Nicholas Langdon wrote:

So I would like to hear some of the reasons being a conservative might be the right way to go.

You can get rich and stay rich and have no accountability for any mistakes you make or any people you harm   on your way to being rich. Then, once your rich, you can make fun of the "lazy" people who aren't rich.

Then once your really really rich, you can shape laws and government departments to make you even more rich.

Then once your really really really rich, you can buy your son a White House.

Jibbles wrote:

The only important thing is that you think about what is best for the country, not anyone's own political agenda. Sort of a "hear the issue, then decide", rather than "decide on the issue before you've heard it", kind of thing. Too many people think of themselves as just "conservative" or "liberal". Just be a person. Better yet, be an American.

O thank god....Im sick of labels. Fuck the 2 party system. Fuck the labeling system. Fuck the "which candidate is worst" system. I want an individual, NOT A PARTY!

ATG wrote:

m3thod wrote:

i didn't know liberal was used an insult until i came here!

Must be an American thing.

Your not a American style liberal; more a Soviet style communist leaning zealot, imo.

Gee thanks.

<--------------

I feel violated.

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

Nicholas Langdon wrote:

So I would like to hear some of the reasons being a conservative might be the right way to go.

You can get rich and stay rich and have no accountability for any mistakes you make or any people you harm   on your way to being rich. Then, once your rich, you can make fun of the "lazy" people who aren't rich.

Hollywood?  I beleive there are mostly liberals.

BN wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

You get to keep poor people poor and laugh at them as you pass them by in your fancy car.

Thats what I dont understand about some right wingers is that they dont want free healthcare or welfare. I shake my head and wonder why not. I quote Michael Corleone:  I have always believed helping your fellow man is profitable in every sense, personally and bottom-line.

Mostly because it takes forever compared to what we have.  Also the "competition" between companies to produce a better drug or cure keeps advancing medicine quicker then the government saying here is how much we'll award you in a contract, there is no reason to work any harder then you need to get by.

I have a few doctors that I go to for different things.  I have a othrosocpic surgeon that I truelly trust and would rather go to him rather than some random one that was assigned to this one case.

Oh and there are plenty of methods and ways to get out of being poor.  There is a free education system and many states have scholarships for anyone who keeps a certain GPA or in the top certain percentage of their class at their high school.  The millennium scholarship in Nevada and and Texas giving out free instate education to any student in the top 10% of their high school. 

If a person actually does anything in school there are hundreds and thousands of scholarships to have other people pay for school for them and once you have the education they can go "get rich."  It truly is the work ethic of the people, the kids, that makes the difference in their lives.  If they don't want to get out of the situation they are in then they stay were they are and live off of the welfare system.

Speaking of the welfare system you can only apply to pretty low paying hourly jobs for it to apply so the left wing praised system for social reform keeps the poor poor.  My mother who was laid off, the company no longer was making enough profit to keep her department applied,  for welfare just to see what the system was like.  She was making roughly $70,000 salaried and they refused to allow her to apply for a job similar to hers that was salaried.

If a student is not accepted into a four year university or college there are community colleges and night schools that raise the student to the proper level to be accepted into a university.

And once again, if a person can't get someone or anyone to pay for school for them there is the military.  The GI Bill for active duty is $40,000 over 36 months (8 semesters) and $10,000 for reservist for the same time frame.  Not only that but the USMC also have MCI's and some of those count as college credits.


This is strictly my opinion on the subject:

The conservative approach is give someone $20 dollars and a business and say if you clean yourself up you can come get a job down here and start making some money to help improve your life.

The liberal view of this is to give the same person $50 on top of the $20 and point out the nearest welfare office and tell them that they can get that $70 every month for the rest of their lives and they don't have to do anything but fake like they are trying to get a job.

Life isn't easy, but you can improve your circumstances.  I'm the son of a divorced mother from South Carolina, historically in the bottom 4% of the nation for education since before I was born.   My mother made less then $30,000 a year raising two children.  She married a man on his third marriage who was working as a printing press worker or professional driver and their combined salaries allowed us to fix up our house and sell it for a little extra.  My mother being a teacher applied for a grant from Clemson University and they paid for her masters degree which nearly doubled her salary.

By using the extra money coming in our family worked hard and remodeled the house that we were living in over the course of several years and sold it for a significant amount of money more then what we paid.

My step dad began investigating different opportunities and started making more and more money through educated changes in his life style. My mother then worked for the South Carolina Government in education and then was offered a position in California for once again nearly double her salary.  We once again worked in the house we were living in and remodeled and sold it.

The position didn't last for more then two years but it did benefit us.  I graduated from a good school and was accepted into the University I now attend.  I couldn't pay for school on my own and my parents were stuckin a situation that they couldn't help me but their gross yearly income prevented me from getting grants and scholarships.  I had planned on joining the USMC as an officer after my degree but decided I would go reserves for the GI Bill and am currently an E-3 working on picking up Corporal.  The GI Bill has come in a huge help as well as being able to put down military service member on applications.  I now make double the national minimum wage, have the reservist GI Bill (without kickers of any sort) and am able to live comfortably as a college student with roommates.

My mother got a new job in Texas and moved there and makes quite a bit of money now too, much more then she used to when I was born and a little kid and all because she worked hard and kept her head on straight.  Plenty of people tried to drag her down but she wouldn't listen to them and kept on going forward.

I am currently a sophomore attending the University of Nevada- Reno, am a Lance Corporal in the USMCR in a new unit, and have been accepted into the Platoon Leaders' Course for the USMC (two 6 week courses instead of one 10 week course for OCS).  I had a plan, work ethic, and a desire to get out from a bad situation that I had seen my mother in and am doing quite well on getting away from it.

Most conservatives are pro-LEGAL Immigration and anti-ILLEGAL Immigration.

Nicholas Langdon wrote:

Feel free to post a "give me a reason to be liberal" thread if this goes well but please do not post this as a response in this thread.

Edit: also if you have one(reason), Why did you become or why are you conservative?

nic

"Give me a reason to be a liberal" is a reasonable counter-post, and it does fit within this thread. I am a conservative liberal. By definition, both frames of mind have worthy aspects, and both should be practiced simultaneously in our society. But the political parties who have snatched up these definitions for their own ends do not really mirror them. Therefore, I vote for individuals, rather than letters. Read their messages, choose the one I like the most, and hope they're being honest.