ATG
Banned
+5,233|6814|Global Command
At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
- Matthew 24:11 


______________________________________________https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fa/USA_Great_Seal_Reverse.png/250px-________________________________________________

Here is the mainstream Wiki version.

For this  small series of threads , I require you to suspend your disbelief. You have to go along with my hypothetical. You have to understand I am not advocating anything: merely describing what I see as an alternative system, and what radical steps would be required to accomplish it.

First, some hypothetical headlines:


May 7, 2009
Iran Strikes Israel With New Holocaust.   
   Iran delivered on it's long term goal and dealt a murderous blow to the State of Israel.  Tens of thousands of innocents were annilated in a flash of 'holy' fire. The  small warhead leveled large swaths of Tel Aviv, but does not pose a major threat to the region.

May 10, 2009
Thousands of Pakistani troops pour across Kashmir.   

Within hours New Delhi was a graveyard for millions and Islamabad became a slag heap burning white hot in a nuclear inferno






https://www.marinefirefighting.com/Images/Familiarazation/Container%20ship%20heavy%20load.jpg


China invades the United States   

Tens of thousands of tanks, jeeps and armored fighting vehicles poured forth from our ports and terminals following a series of EMP weapons discharges. Power, communications are gone. The Red Army had quietly imported 2 million combat troops to U.S. in shipping containers paid for by Walmart. Executives from the company who caught in a motorcade and torn limb from limb.

Chinese troops quickly set up mobil gas houses to dispatch of political unfriendlies and establishment relics.

https://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41849000/jpg/_41849230_natuchinaap416final.jpg

June 11, 2022
Mass beheadings in London as Sharia law takes effect. 

With Her long time military supporter America now official disbanded as a nation and under joint control of the Socialist Forces of Venezuela and the Chinese army, citizens of England lined up for Islamic Court identification cards.
Those caught without cards or beards are executed the next day.


It doesn't have to be this way...but it will be if radical steps are not taken to over-throw and replace all the existing world governments.


Next...


The legal Case for the sacking of the U.S. Government, the arrest of George Bush and the beginning of the end of modern governments.
notorious
Nay vee, bay bee.
+1,396|7032|The United Center
The scariest part about this...

...is within the next 10-20 years, China could potentially overthrow the US.
Masques
Black Panzer Party
+184|7007|Eastern PA
I lol'd at the China invading the US part.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6690|North Carolina
China couldn't overthrow us.  That's an absolutely ridiculous statement.  Then again, so is this thread.

Yes, some serious problems are manifesting out there, but this is just fuel for the paranoid fire the neocons love to drudge (report) up.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6886|132 and Bush

ThomasMorgan wrote:

The scariest part about this...

...is within the next 10-20 years, China could potentially overthrow the US.
Never happens. For economic reasons rather than military. Our economies are too dependent on each other to allow our relationships to reach that critical level. The US is just going to have to blow up some satellites now as well (Or something else to flex our muscles). It is imperative that the United States continue to improve our relations with the Chinese in order to maintain our global economic supremacy. The Chinese want that the economic growth between us as well.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6690|North Carolina
I'd actually suggest we trade less with China and more with India and Indonesia.
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|7021|Salt Lake City

ATG...I want some of what you're smoking! 
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6929
i could defeat the entire PLA with my finger nail clippings
Ender2309
has joined the GOP
+470|6856|USA
turquoise you're an idiot if you think that. china would instantly be helped by Russia, Venezuela, north Korea, Iran, Pakistan, etc, if they were to attempt an invasion on US soil. them against us; we lose.


however, ATG is officially a fear monger.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6814|Global Command

Turquoise wrote:

China couldn't overthrow us.  That's an absolutely ridiculous statement.  Then again, so is this thread.
orly?
They may spend a fraction of us in dollars on their military but we aren't willing to lose a fraction of the men they are in war.

Think about it. China could lose 400 million people ( the rough population of America, factoring in illegal aliens ) and still be a world power.


Turquoise wrote:

Yes, some serious problems are manifesting out there, but this is just fuel for the paranoid fire the neocons love to drudge (report) up.
http://www.drudgereport.com/

Todays Drudge.

What part of my thread comes from it, again?
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6690|North Carolina

Ender2309 wrote:

turquoise you're an idiot if you think that. china would instantly be helped by Russia, Venezuela, north Korea, Iran, Pakistan, etc, if they were to attempt an invasion on US soil. them against us; we lose.
O rly...

You really think all those countries would just suddenly collude against us?...  You call ATG a fearmonger, but sir, you are the fearmonger.
delta4bravo*nl*
Dutch Delight
+68|7037

Turquoise wrote:

I'd actually suggest we trade less with China and more with India and Indonesia.
yes very good..
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6690|North Carolina

ATG wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

China couldn't overthrow us.  That's an absolutely ridiculous statement.  Then again, so is this thread.
orly?
They may spend a fraction of us in dollars on their military but we aren't willing to lose a fraction of the men they are in war.

Think about it. China could lose 400 million people ( the rough population of America, factoring in illegal aliens ) and still be a world power.


Turquoise wrote:

Yes, some serious problems are manifesting out there, but this is just fuel for the paranoid fire the neocons love to drudge (report) up.
http://www.drudgereport.com/

Todays Drudge.

What part of my thread comes from it, again?
We aren't willing to lose much in Iraq, because we know that it's not worth losing much to.  If, for some reason, we had to fight China, we'd suck it up and fight till the end.

I mentioned the Drudge Report because it is the quintessential neocon news source.
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6929
lets remember though, having a huge population does not necessarily mean you have to be a super power.  honestly,  china's numbers dont scare me.  more targets.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6886|132 and Bush

delta4bravo*nl* wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

I'd actually suggest we trade less with China and more with India and Indonesia.
yes very good..
I mean this with every ounce of my being --> Impossible.

Ninety percent of foreign policy is built around business.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Ender2309
has joined the GOP
+470|6856|USA

Turquoise wrote:

Ender2309 wrote:

turquoise you're an idiot if you think that. china would instantly be helped by Russia, Venezuela, north Korea, Iran, Pakistan, etc, if they were to attempt an invasion on US soil. them against us; we lose.
O rly...

You really think all those countries would just suddenly collude against us?...  You call ATG a fearmonger, but sir, you are the fearmonger.
none of them like us too much, and they're not stupid. they're smart enough to know that if they want to work together, they can take us down for a "better" tommorow.

thats not fear mongering, its realism, and maybe just a dash of imaginative thinking, so to speak.


saying that without a doubt its going to happen if we don't change our ways (ATG) IS fear mongering.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6690|North Carolina

Kmarion wrote:

delta4bravo*nl* wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

I'd actually suggest we trade less with China and more with India and Indonesia.
yes very good..
I mean this with every ounce of my being --> Impossible.

Ninety percent of foreign policy is built around business.
There's plenty of business opportunities in both India and Indonesia.  China may depend on us a great deal, but we're starting to become dependent on them as well.  True free trade involves diversifying your trade interests.  We focus way too much manufacturing on China.

The extent of our dependency on them is best demonstrated by our willingness to completely overlook their human rights violations.

You want us to be the world's police, but our friendliness to China shows how little we really value human rights.  This is why the human rights argument for removing Saddam is utter bullshit.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6886|132 and Bush

Ender2309 wrote:

saying that without a doubt its going to happen if we don't change our ways (ATG) IS fear mongering.
He never said that.

ATG wrote:

You have to understand I am not advocating anything: merely describing what I see as an alternative system, and what radical steps would be required to accomplish it.
He is proposing a hypothetical scenario for discussion.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
BVC
Member
+325|6980

Turquoise wrote:

I'd actually suggest we trade less with China and more with India and Indonesia.
I think India is a sleeping dragon, and will play a bigger global role in 20+ years time than most people realise.
Ender2309
has joined the GOP
+470|6856|USA

Kmarion wrote:

Ender2309 wrote:

saying that without a doubt its going to happen if we don't change our ways (ATG) IS fear mongering.
He never said that.

ATG wrote:

You have to understand I am not advocating anything: merely describing what I see as an alternative system, and what radical steps would be required to accomplish it.
He is proposing a hypothetical scenario for discussion.
allow me to rephrase: ATG is a hypothetical fear monger.

either way, its still his views (even if they are sugar plums in his head); and they're pretty scary.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6690|North Carolina

Ender2309 wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Ender2309 wrote:

turquoise you're an idiot if you think that. china would instantly be helped by Russia, Venezuela, north Korea, Iran, Pakistan, etc, if they were to attempt an invasion on US soil. them against us; we lose.
O rly...

You really think all those countries would just suddenly collude against us?...  You call ATG a fearmonger, but sir, you are the fearmonger.
none of them like us too much, and they're not stupid. they're smart enough to know that if they want to work together, they can take us down for a "better" tommorow.

thats not fear mongering, its realism, and maybe just a dash of imaginative thinking, so to speak.
the emphasis is on the "imaginative" part....

I hope you realize that China has never been especially close to Iran.  Russia, despite being a former Communist country, didn't even get along well with them.  Venezuela might be a potential ally of China, but they have little military power.

North Korea has nukes, but lately, China has put our interests far ahead of North Korea's.  They helped pressure Kim Jong Il to stop testing his weapons.

You're assuming far too much by creating a scenario where these countries work together seamlessly.  If China attacked us, they'd probably stay out of the fight, because they'd fear getting a few nukes thrown their way.

EDIT: As Braddock pointed out though...  China is close to Pakistan.  So yes, Pakistan might come to China's aid in the future.  However, Musharraf is currently friendly to us.

Last edited by Turquoise (2007-03-30 16:51:54)

Mitch
16 more years
+877|6810|South Florida

ATG wrote:

At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
- Matthew 24:11 


______________________________________________http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c … png/250px-________________________________________________

Here is the mainstream Wiki version.

For this  small series of threads , I require you to suspend your disbelief. You have to go along with my hypothetical. You have to understand I am not advocating anything: merely describing what I see as an alternative system, and what radical steps would be required to accomplish it.

First, some hypothetical headlines:


May 7, 2009
Iran Strikes Israel With New Holocaust.   
   Iran delivered on it's long term goal and dealt a murderous blow to the State of Israel.  Tens of thousands of innocents were annilated in a flash of 'holy' fire. The  small warhead leveled large swaths of Tel Aviv, but does not pose a major threat to the region.

May 10, 2009
Thousands of Pakistani troops pour across Kashmir.   

Within hours New Delhi was a graveyard for millions and Islamabad became a slag heap burning white hot in a nuclear inferno






http://www.marinefirefighting.com/Image … 20load.jpg


China invades the United States   

Tens of thousands of tanks, jeeps and armored fighting vehicles poured forth from our ports and terminals following a series of EMP weapons discharges. Power, communications are gone. The Red Army had quietly imported 2 million combat troops to U.S. in shipping containers paid for by Walmart. Executives from the company who caught in a motorcade and torn limb from limb.

Chinese troops quickly set up mobil gas houses to dispatch of political unfriendlies and establishment relics.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/4 … 6final.jpg

June 11, 2022
Mass beheadings in London as Sharia law takes effect. 

With Her long time military supporter America now official disbanded as a nation and under joint control of the Socialist Forces of Venezuela and the Chinese army, citizens of England lined up for Islamic Court identification cards.
Those caught without cards or beards are executed the next day.


It doesn't have to be this way...but it will be if radical steps are not taken to over-throw and replace all the existing world governments.


Next...


The legal Case for the sacking of the U.S. Government, the arrest of George Bush and the beginning of the end of modern governments.
What? Where did you dream this up? Yes its fun to read but so are Stephen King novels.
A. Who says the current government needs to be overthrown
B. Give me 1 true proven illegal act Mr. Bush has performed (PROOF!)
C. If China did attack, that is scary, but
    1. Sneaking 2 million troops over in shipping crates would be pretty hard... 2 million! thats a lot.
    2. It would be the duty of every american to take action (thats like 300 million american soldiers) Plus the tactics of the already made US army and government. Im sorry, but theres no way i could see China taking over, plus we would have the support of all our world alies, you think the UK would let us be overthrown? I tend to believe all countries that rely on us (whether for food, supplys, bussiness, ect) would pitch in. China would be hated and sent back into the stone age by a world alience.

Now you cant tell me the scenario i just stated is any more/less likely then the one you stated..

Nuff said

Edit: im going to bed now so dont expect any response till tomarro

Last edited by Dezerteagal5 (2007-03-29 21:27:07)

15 more years! 15 more years!
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6886|132 and Bush

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

delta4bravo*nl* wrote:

yes very good..
I mean this with every ounce of my being --> Impossible.

Ninety percent of foreign policy is built around business.
There's plenty of business opportunities in both India and Indonesia.  China may depend on us a great deal, but we're starting to become dependent on them as well.  True free trade involves diversifying your trade interests.  We focus way too much manufacturing on China.

The extent of our dependency on them is best demonstrated by our willingness to completely overlook their human rights violations.

You want us to be the world's police, but our friendliness to China shows how little we really value human rights.  This is why the human rights argument for removing Saddam is utter bullshit.
I described the dependency in my first post. So I must agree. Don't confuse what we should do with what the reality of what we know is going to happen. The Chinese market will not be sacrificed by the business elite. Our only hope for them to start to address their human rights issue is from broad international pressure.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6690|North Carolina

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:


I mean this with every ounce of my being --> Impossible.

Ninety percent of foreign policy is built around business.
There's plenty of business opportunities in both India and Indonesia.  China may depend on us a great deal, but we're starting to become dependent on them as well.  True free trade involves diversifying your trade interests.  We focus way too much manufacturing on China.

The extent of our dependency on them is best demonstrated by our willingness to completely overlook their human rights violations.

You want us to be the world's police, but our friendliness to China shows how little we really value human rights.  This is why the human rights argument for removing Saddam is utter bullshit.
I described the dependency in my first post. So I must agree. Don't confuse what we should do with what the reality of what we know is going to happen. The Chinese market will not be sacrificed by the business elite. Our only hope for them to start to address their human rights issue is from broad international pressure.
Well, what I mean is...  I think more of the business elite will start to value the idea of trade diversity when the Chinese standard of living rises significantly.  What began as cheap labor will eventually become less cost effective than Indian or Indonesian labor.

Even from a completely selfish point of view, we're probably going to see a shift of trade towards India and Indonesia.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6886|132 and Bush

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

There's plenty of business opportunities in both India and Indonesia.  China may depend on us a great deal, but we're starting to become dependent on them as well.  True free trade involves diversifying your trade interests.  We focus way too much manufacturing on China.

The extent of our dependency on them is best demonstrated by our willingness to completely overlook their human rights violations.

You want us to be the world's police, but our friendliness to China shows how little we really value human rights.  This is why the human rights argument for removing Saddam is utter bullshit.
I described the dependency in my first post. So I must agree. Don't confuse what we should do with what the reality of what we know is going to happen. The Chinese market will not be sacrificed by the business elite. Our only hope for them to start to address their human rights issue is from broad international pressure.
Well, what I mean is...  I think more of the business elite will start to value the idea of trade diversity when the Chinese standard of living rises significantly.  What began as cheap labor will eventually become less cost effective than Indian or Indonesian labor.

Even from a completely selfish point of view, we're probably going to see a shift of trade towards India and Indonesia.
Possibly. The reason China has gotten so much attention over these last few years in the shift in their trade policies. After thousands of years of Isolationism they have decided to come out and show themselves.

I think if I were to keep an eye on anyone right now it would be Putin. He has been doing some very erratic things lately.

This is from today. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070329/ap_ … s_russia_7
WASHINGTON - Russia has fully restored its espionage capabilities against the United States after a period of decline following the Cold War, a senior U.S. counterintelligence official said Thursday.

Last edited by Kmarion (2007-03-29 21:27:39)

Xbone Stormsurgezz

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