BF2S Forums Liberals?

lowing wrote:

I also said individuality is discourged and that sharing all you have earned with all those "less fortunate" is essential.

Last edited by Braddock (2007-03-29 05:25:58)

lowing wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

Never!  The bandwagon shall leave without me!

I do know the context in which is was said, and that context was to show the Liberals support dictatorships, so to show that that's true you must demonstrate either:

a)  That Stalin was a Liberal

or

b)  That Liberals support Stalin

I said TODAYS liberals were like communists in the sense that they liked big govt. and govt. control over our lives. That they believe "we are all in this together" and we should all work for the common good and let the govt. dicticate what that "common good" was. I also said individuality is discourged and that sharing all you have earned with all those "less fortunate" is essential.

But hey, a dictatorship is most certainly big govt. and TODAYS liberals like big govt. thewy just might feel right at home with a dictator in power. Why not, they certainly do not want a nation with the capability of defending itself. Something we already discussed and agreed upon.

Braddock wrote:

I feel that most examples of modern liberalism are usually centre left in their viewpoints. I always get the impression that right wing and conservative elements try to paint out liberalism to be extreme left as it makes it easier to demonise. Are there really Liberals in the US that want to nationalise all industries and regulate all aspects of US citizens lives? Maybe the US is different to Europe?

Doesn't the Patriot act allow a lot of Government control over citizens lives, I don't recall many liberals arguing in favour of that act?

Bush dictated to the US that it was the in the interest of the common good to send troops to Iraq, now there is increasing opposition the war and he is still dictating that it is in the interest of the common good to stay in Iraq.

lowing wrote:

I also said individuality is discourged and that sharing all you have earned with all those "less fortunate" is essential.

liberal - Oxford AMERICAN dictionary definition:
(1)open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard taraditional values.
(2)favorable to or respectful of individuals rights and freedoms.
(3)in a political context: favoring maximum individual liberty in politcal and social reform.

superfly_cox wrote:

Is everyone here clear on the fact that the American and European definition of liberal is different?

US: A Liberal is description of political views that are left of center
Europe: A Liberal is an political doctrine that is of right of center

Same word, different meanings...much confusion.

wiki on Liberal Conservatism wrote:

Liberal conservatism has two senses. It can refer to (1) the combination of economic liberalism with the classical conservative concern for established tradition, respect for authority and, sometimes, although in an increasingly lesser-sense, religious values. The term 'liberal' here refers not to center-left modern liberalism (the dominant present-day meaning of liberalism in the United States, the British Isles, and English-speaking Canada) but to free-market liberalism, laissez-faire economics.In those English-speaking countries, "liberal conservatism" in this sense is often simply called "conservatism".  Consequently, in these countries, "liberal conservatism" is "freed up" to take an alternative meaning, (2) as a synonym for neoliberalism, either on the basis that it means the conserving of liberalism as described here against collectivist policies, or that it is a combination of fiscal conservatism with a concern for civil liberties. This article deals with liberal conservatism in the first sense.

Liberal conservatism usually takes hold among conservatives in countries where liberal economic ideas are considered traditional, and therefore conservative.

In countries where liberal conservative movements have entered the political mainstream, the terms "liberal" and "conservative" may become synonymous (as in Australia and in Italy), or they may be redefined such that liberal conservatives keep one of them and the other is taken up by a different group (as in the United States, where liberal conservatives use the term "conservative", and "liberal" generally means Modern American liberalism, a social liberal movement). Modern American liberalism contains many elements of social democracy and often advocates restrictions on free enterprise that fall outside the bounds of laissez-faire.

The liberal conservative tradition in the United States combines the economic individualism of the classical liberals with a Burkean form of conservatism (which has also become part of the American conservative tradition, for example in the writings of Russell Kirk).

Liberal conservative political parties exist in a number of countries, and they are usually most entrenched in Anglo-Saxon cultures.

Bubbalo wrote:

lowing wrote:

By definition is not what I am talking about Bubbalo. I liked JFK and FDR. Would today's liberal be 5 seconds away from starting WW3 because of missles in Cuba?? NO way. The liberals of today, are not BY DEFINITION. THAT, is the point of all of this and you refuse to acknowledge that. Would todays liberal go to war aftewr pearl harbor?? Nope they wouldn't. 911 is proof that they will not and are not inclined to defend America.

But there is nothing to call them Liberals based on other than definition.  If they don't hold a Liberal viewpoint then they aren't Liberals.  If they do they are.  Liberalism favours less control, by definition.  If they favour more control, they aren't Liberal, because that's what a Liberal is.

Bubbalo wrote:

Majority wisdom isn't always right.

Bubbalo wrote:

No, you're talking about Liberals using the definition you have used for the past year or so with which to slander everyone with a left wing view, and for the past year or so we've been telling that you're wrong and you've ignored us.

Last edited by lowing (2007-03-30 05:45:02)

Bubbalo wrote:

No, I think you single handedly re-defined the term Liberal for yourself, and the other right wing twits who don't have a clue did it for themselves, and you have been misusing it ever since and people have been telling you and you've been ignoring them.

Last edited by lowing (2007-03-30 06:02:45)

Last edited by Bubbalo (2007-03-30 07:33:12)