BF2S Forums How long?

Pierre wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

I know why he cut them. His predecessor took step to reduce it to a lower level following the cold war. However Clinton overdid it and continued to reduce it below acceptable/effective levels. I of course am for a strong economy but security comes first. Without good intelligence none of your enemy's or threats are clear. I guess Americans should ask if we were not giving billions in aide to Israel maybe we could have maintained our intelligence and saved a few thousand of our citizens. Those questions are rarely asked. Do they really need 2.4 billion a year to tear down houses in Palestine?

Good question. Americans should ask why so much aid is given to Israel. I guess AIPAC might be one of the reasons why so much aid is given, and why such questions are not asked.

Back on topic: Bill clearly made a mistake cutting the budgets of the services too much, but to defend him a little, the threat of international non-state-sponsored terrorism was really small in those days, all eyes were focussed on major countries such as Lybia, or major groups such as Fatah or Hamas, and imo Al Qaida was only beginning to rise. But you're right, the bombings of the Cole and the African embassy should have made it clear there was a new danger lurking.

Turquoise wrote:

Instead, we'd rather blow up brown people.

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

It is because of our size and wealth that we have ourselves spread throughout the world. Do you honestly think that the average American would not like to sit back and remain unengaged while someone else protected us and our global interest? Europe's current role of pacifist was enabled under America's protection of the Cold war. They have been allowed to get away with minimal chores. Too many do not understand that freedom has a price at times and can not be purchased with appeasement. What I can't understand is with all the comforting Europe gives to itself in telling us the US is full of lies, ignorance, violence, crudeness, naivety, degeneration, and the clumsiness of our pathetic mediocrities. How could the USA have become the most richest, powerful, and advanced country in the world? We have our problems of course, especially in recent years. But understand our role in the world is not always by choice. Don't forget that these are our Brothers, Sisters, Mothers, and Fathers that are away from us and dieing. Governments can lead their people in the wrong direction. But our society has shown us in our short history as a nation that the people are able to make choices, and regain our direction based on our values.

It is true that our size is what somewhat obligates us to take a forceful role in the world.  Yet, it's not a simple choice between war and appeasement.  Becoming less economically dependent on a particular region is often the best choice.  If we move away from Middle Eastern oil, then the actions of Islam will be mostly of no consequence to us.  We'll just need to improve our domestic security.

We became as powerful as we are now through a combination of factors, but a significant portion of them weren't exactly virtuous.  We did rather recklessly support anyone willing to fight the Russians during a lot of the Cold War.  We did put our military interests above human rights interests in many cases as well.

Still, I would agree that a significant portion of the criticism we receive is excessive or hypocritical on the part of the countries it comes from.  For example, France has behaved in similar ways to us in certain areas of Africa and Southeast Asia.  Some European states have no right to call us imperialist because of their own imperialist tendencies.

Last edited by Kmarion (2007-03-17 15:13:42)

lowing wrote:

theelviscerator wrote:

What makes you so fucking sure a democrat can win the office?

I don't give them much of a chance, if any.

Hillary? Nah
Osama? Hell no.

Edwards? O please, practically a commie.

who is left on the left?

Nobody.

Maybe, but I gotta be honest with myself, I believe the people will vote in a democrat this election.

JimmyBotswana wrote:

if all americans buried all their guns in their backyard america would be a lot better off.

m3thod wrote:

lowing wrote:

JimmyBotswana wrote:

if all americans buried all their guns in their backyard america would be a lot better off.

See what I mean about liberals and their irrational and unrealistic points of view?

He's poking fun at your gun culture.

PureFodder wrote:

lowing wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

oh yes, because republicans have made this country incredibly safe! thanks dubya!

Do ya really really wanna compare what the republicans have done to combat terrorism as compared to the democrats when they were in power?? Do ya really?

Ok, lets have a look at how many terrorist attacks there have been on American Citizens in the last few presidencies.


Not looking too good for GWB.

BeerzGod wrote:

Bottom line is that there WILL be another horrendous terrorist attack on American soil sooner or later, and I'm not sure why anyone is arguing the fact that it will or will not happen. You all know it will. It doesn't matter who is in the oval office or not. It doesn't matter if there is a Patriot Act or not, etc. There's nothing an average citizen can do about it so just live your life. I think the crack-down on terroism has stopped a lot of would-be attacks but nobody will ever defeat terrorism.

And those of you arguing that you CAN defeat your enemy with military strength alone are sorely mistaken. Sure, it worked wonders in Japan, but it doesn't work against an enemy that WANTS to die. This enemy believes they party with 70 virgins when they die and they're not afraid to take as many people with them when they go down. Fighting without fear of death is a truely powerful thing in war... it doesn't matter if they they're using age-old weapons or homemade explosives. How do you defeat an enemy so willing to die?