Agreed. If the government isn't corrupt, the system works.Nyte wrote:
At least in theory.
To have a semi-successful democracy (ie. Western nations), there must exist 3rd world countries to depend on otherwise capitalism fails.
In communism, it works everywhere and all the time IF the government is not corrupt (ie. China).
Discuss.
Yeah, your taxes are pretty damn high. Taxes are considerably lower here, but our social programs are a mess....[F7F7]KiNG_KaDaFFHi wrote:
Turquoise ....kinda right there...not too many atleast...at we doo have a good social welfare program here...but I´d like to say that´s also a big question of very high taxes....I pay 33% in taxes. Still we have homeless people and poor poeple...someone always falls outside of the system.
Also we doo use birthcontrol here (parts taken from inside old animals that died) Sexy time ftw.
Taxes = good....but only if spent well and if all ppl pay them....corruption really really makes me grind my teeth.
haha nope your both wrongBertster7 wrote:
No it wasn't. Ancient Greece was a democracy.Nyte wrote:
Ancient Greece was pretty much a communist nation. They were pretty powerful too if I'm not mistaken.
That is until the war hungry Romans (and eventually Catholics) came and raped the women, killed the children, and executed the husbands.
Ancient Greece wasn't even a country
the area we now call Greece was a bunch of tyrannical monarchies which eventually became a smaller bunch of larger tyrannical monarchies through various wars and power struggles
though the ruling class and aristocracy had various amounts of influence in these monarchies it was nowhere near either a democracy or communism
back on topic: communism works fantastically well in theory, unfortunatly hummanity is the way it is due to competition, we compete with people all the time it is our driving force and it makes us who we are
but in communism there is no competition because everyone is equal
people cannot live with this those with power try to gain more power and be more equal and therefore it falls apart
In theory, I see what you're saying, but I guess I distrust my federal government too much to be willing to support much higher taxes.[F7F7]KiNG_KaDaFFHi wrote:
Taxes = good....but only if spent well and if all ppl pay them....corruption really really makes me grind my teeth.
I'd prefer we minimize the federal government so that we can lower federal taxes and raise state ones a little bit, in order for each state to implement greater social programs. Social Security is a joke.
Are you saying that social security is a joke in general or just your social security? I think it´s a good thing and it actually works kinda fine here....but then again we are such a small nation and that makes it easier to divide the efforts and easier to control the corruption...not saying it´s not present here, surely we have bad politicians also ...but perhaps they don´t make as much damage to the system as in bigger nations.
But...I´ll glady pay my 33% in taxes...I´ll survive anyway and who knows....I might need the help of the system one day, also knowing that most of it are actually helps my nation and ppl makes me feel glad.
I understand your feelings about taxes in your nation....because of the spending and also the collections of them are kinda upsetting....but fact is...many Swedes feels the same way as me about taxes...a bit high but something that is needed for a good working society.
But...I´ll glady pay my 33% in taxes...I´ll survive anyway and who knows....I might need the help of the system one day, also knowing that most of it are actually helps my nation and ppl makes me feel glad.
I understand your feelings about taxes in your nation....because of the spending and also the collections of them are kinda upsetting....but fact is...many Swedes feels the same way as me about taxes...a bit high but something that is needed for a good working society.
The size of your population actually has a lot to do with it. It's easier to keep up with the spending of 9 millon people's taxes than it is to keep up with that of 300 million. Our government is so large that billions of dollars can go missing without anyone noticing for several months (or possibly not at all). So, our Social Security system's funds are often embezzled, and the aging out of our population is going to bankrupt the system anyway. So, this is why I prefer a state-based system. Smaller state governments are likely to budget these systems better than the feds.[F7F7]KiNG_KaDaFFHi wrote:
Are you saying that social security is a joke in general or just your social security? I think it´s a good thing and it actually works kinda fine here....but then again we are such a small nation and that makes it easier to divide the efforts and easier to control the corruption...not saying it´s not present here, surely we have bad politicians also ...but perhaps they don´t make as much damage to the system as in bigger nations.
I think it's a cultural thing. Part of the reasoning behind our fight for independence involved taxation. We are a very tax-hating people, even if taxes sometimes provide for better social systems. So, socializing things like healthcare is a very precarious process. It takes some time for people to agree to certain taxes, but this wariness of taxation is a good thing in many ways....[F7F7]KiNG_KaDaFFHi wrote:
But...I´ll glady pay my 33% in taxes...I´ll survive anyway and who knows....I might need the help of the system one day, also knowing that most of it are actually helps my nation and ppl makes me feel glad.
I understand your feelings about taxes in your nation....because of the spending and also the collections of them are kinda upsetting....but fact is...many Swedes feels the same way as me about taxes...a bit high but something that is needed for a good working society.
communism sounds good at first, but it is a very flawed system. It does not promote competativeness which results in laziness and lack of work, which then leads to someone getting annoyed at the other guys not doing anything and still getting paid as much as him
this results in a chain reaction until total government collapse occurs.
also, it should be Communism>Capitalism
this results in a chain reaction until total government collapse occurs.
also, it should be Communism>Capitalism
communism will always work...? U.S.S.R. I know that u said IF the gov is currput but if the gov ever does get currput, the gov will just have to much power and we've seen what can happen.
That and the system is flawed if you have a greedy government, which you will always have, as it is human nature, so it will never work out...Blehm98 wrote:
communism sounds good at first, but it is a very flawed system. It does not promote competativeness which results in laziness and lack of work, which then leads to someone getting annoyed at the other guys not doing anything and still getting paid as much as him
this results in a chain reaction until total government collapse occurs.
also, it should be Communism>Capitalism
Agreed Turquoise. Well put. As always a pleasure to argue with you.
Thanks, Kadaffhi... The feeling is mutual
I suggest reading Ayn Rands - Philosophy : Who needs it - for a clearer view on this subject.Nyte wrote:
At least in theory.
To have a semi-successful democracy (ie. Western nations), there must exist 3rd world countries to depend on otherwise capitalism fails.
In communism, it works everywhere and all the time IF the government is not corrupt (ie. China).
Discuss.
Thomas More's Utopia is also a good example. It requires a little more thought than Rand, but has the same points.TrollmeaT wrote:
I suggest reading Ayn Rands - Philosophy : Who needs it - for a clearer view on this subject.Nyte wrote:
At least in theory.
To have a semi-successful democracy (ie. Western nations), there must exist 3rd world countries to depend on otherwise capitalism fails.
In communism, it works everywhere and all the time IF the government is not corrupt (ie. China).
Discuss.
IRL Communism simply doesn't work. All countries that started off as communist either turned into dictatorships (as with the USSR and Cuba, early China) or turned capitalist (Vietnam, China)
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman