Prefer logic to (blind) faith.....see previous post re: faith.KO wrote:
You must be athesit or agnostic...I wouldn't call my faith a delusion and you shouldn't call my faith or anyone's faith a delusion casue you probably don't have one and never experienced oneRatzinger wrote:
Trying to prove that their delusion is more "realistic" than your delusion....KO wrote:
Get that shit out of here. Jesus was both man and divine and never had a son. Its posted on a jewish, probably jewish radicals, website and they are just trying to prove that their religion is more realistic than other religions.
That is quoted out of context, what is stated thereafter is more important, that about the historical record...
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Absence renders the whole thing as myth; as symbolism; symbolically true; it is not a literal truth. The Gospels are more mythical than the later books of the Old testament (those actually have real Kings in it - that have been documented by actual evidence; unlike the ethereal Gnostic-like God-man Christ).
No archaeological evidence of any kind means any; tombs, crucifix, etc... but who cares, more importantly, he doesn't exist in the historical record - Iesous Christos (in Greek) is a continuation of the form of previous Greek mystery cults, and the common God-man dying myth from antiquity; it is an utter myth. A claim I can back up.
*"There has been a little proof he existed," - there is NO contemporaneous historical proof period. There is only the face-less Gospel accounts of a 12 month ministry; that do not exist until 120-150 CE, as mentioned and documented in the writings of the early Christian Church.
Which just goes back to one of my original points - like 'The DaVinci Code' or this documentary mentioned in the article - or the Gnostic Gospel of Judas - or absurd Bible Code - or whatever... it is just myth about a myth.
Oh, yeah, I have heard that before, a *zillion* (unreal # of) times... and formally as "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." But that is exactly what it is "absent."sfarrar33 wrote:
well there probably has, but how would you know you had found Jesus bones? I mean he isn't going to have his name engraved on them is hetopal63 wrote:
There is NO archaeological proof of Christ - period (NONE EXISTS or HAS EVER BEEN FOUND and WILL NEVER BE FOUND).
also what archaeological proof do you want? he isn't going to have a gravestone if the bible is right since he left his cave and wandered around somewhere after he was crucified
*There has been a little proof he existed, but non that proves he was the son of God or any of that stuff
no or little archaeological proof doesn't really prove anything
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Absence renders the whole thing as myth; as symbolism; symbolically true; it is not a literal truth. The Gospels are more mythical than the later books of the Old testament (those actually have real Kings in it - that have been documented by actual evidence; unlike the ethereal Gnostic-like God-man Christ).
No archaeological evidence of any kind means any; tombs, crucifix, etc... but who cares, more importantly, he doesn't exist in the historical record - Iesous Christos (in Greek) is a continuation of the form of previous Greek mystery cults, and the common God-man dying myth from antiquity; it is an utter myth. A claim I can back up.
*"There has been a little proof he existed," - there is NO contemporaneous historical proof period. There is only the face-less Gospel accounts of a 12 month ministry; that do not exist until 120-150 CE, as mentioned and documented in the writings of the early Christian Church.
Which just goes back to one of my original points - like 'The DaVinci Code' or this documentary mentioned in the article - or the Gnostic Gospel of Judas - or absurd Bible Code - or whatever... it is just myth about a myth.
Last edited by topal63 (2007-02-23 14:54:17)
yes so you cannot say that the bible and Jesus are mythical or that no proof ever will be found of the latters existancetopal63 wrote:
Oh, yeah, I have heard that before, a *zillion* (unreal # of) times... and formally as "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." But that is exactly what it is "absent."sfarrar33 wrote:
well there probably has, but how would you know you had found Jesus bones? I mean he isn't going to have his name engraved on them is hetopal63 wrote:
There is NO archaeological proof of Christ - period (NONE EXISTS or HAS EVER BEEN FOUND and WILL NEVER BE FOUND).
also what archaeological proof do you want? he isn't going to have a gravestone if the bible is right since he left his cave and wandered around somewhere after he was crucified
*There has been a little proof he existed, but non that proves he was the son of God or any of that stuff
no or little archaeological proof doesn't really prove anything
we apply the same thinking to all kinds of things in everyday life
the theory of evolution for example, theres loads of evidence to back it up but its still a theory as it hasn't been proved right.
the theory of the atom, noone has seen an atom with their own eyes, we assume that they look the way they do because it fits the most facts, and even if it is proved wrong the world isn't going to collapse in on itself is it.
what else is there...dark matter/dark energy (we can't see it measure it or detect it but it must be there), criminals (innocent until proven guilty), homework (...), The moon landing (if your a conspiracist of course), you get the picture lol
I think a much greater cause for doubt in Christ's divinity is how his story parallels many other historical figures of the time.
Mithras is the most blatantly similar figure to Christ, and Mithraism existed before Christ was even born.
It's like how Judaism borrows so much from Zoroastrianism, which predates Judaism.
Mithras is the most blatantly similar figure to Christ, and Mithraism existed before Christ was even born.
It's like how Judaism borrows so much from Zoroastrianism, which predates Judaism.
Uh, sure I can, and every day that NO EVIDENCE is in EXISTENCE, or found, I am RIGHT.sfarrar33 wrote:
yes so you cannot say that the bible and Jesus are mythical or that no proof ever will be found of the latters existance
Uh, no we don't apply EVERYDAY-THINKING to science; or any other strict critical endeavor.sfarrar33 wrote:
..we apply the same thinking to all kinds of things in everyday life
the theory of evolution for example
You're missing the point... there is evidence; it is NOT absent.sfarrar33 wrote:
... theory of evolution for example, theres loads of evidence to back it up but its still a theory as it hasn't been proved right.
the theory of the atom, noone has seen an atom with their own eyes, we assume that they look the way they do because it fits the most facts, and even if it is proved wrong the world isn't going to collapse in on itself is it.
what else is there...dark matter/dark energy (we can't see it measure it or detect it but it must be there), criminals (innocent until proven guilty), homework (...), The moon landing (if your a conspiracist of course), you get the picture lol
Theories are not proved right ever; they don't need to be; they are beyond reasonable; and are overwhelmed by evidence.
There is evidence that atoms exist (massive amounts about the detailed inter-workings = effects = indirect evidence; and the predictions of theory are extremely accurate = another part of science; also, as part, they must contain a falsifiable condition).
There is evidence of evolution (massive amounts).
There is evidence that Jesus is a myth, that it is another Greek Mystery cult (conforming to a common form).
There is evidence that some of the Kings in the O.T. existed.
There is indirect evidence of dark-matter - the gravity.
There is evidence of black-holes the massive gravitational forces they exert on nearby stars.
All those extraordinary claims have evidence; it is consistent evidence; it does not deviate in form; and its physical behavior is consistent over time; it is not individual in scope; the evidence is massive and when experiments are involved the experiments must be repeatable - EVERY DAY of THE WEEK. It is nothing like putting O.J. on trial and trying to convince a bunch of idiots he's guilty.
The very definition of a myth is that which lacks evidence. You are absurd.
Last edited by topal63 (2007-02-23 21:53:50)
I have to dispute this - what about Roman execution records?topal63 wrote:
Jesus is a mythical character with no PROOF whatsoever (historical or archeological).
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Sure, this computer doesn't exist either. I can see it, touch it, do whatever to it, but it doesn't exist.ncc6206 wrote:
So is the "theory" of Evolution.... next post!=*RSA*=SiKFuK_187 wrote:
It's a beautiful story but without any proof whatsoever... FAILURE!
Next post, plz.
Just see the sig.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Untrue. Evolution is the second-most proved theory of all time (quantum physics being the first). The whole of modern biology and modern microbiology/genetics REQUIRES evolution to be true.sfarrar33 wrote:
yes so you cannot say that the bible and Jesus are mythical or that no proof ever will be found of the latters existancetopal63 wrote:
Oh, yeah, I have heard that before, a *zillion* (unreal # of) times... and formally as "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." But that is exactly what it is "absent."sfarrar33 wrote:
well there probably has, but how would you know you had found Jesus bones? I mean he isn't going to have his name engraved on them is he
also what archaeological proof do you want? he isn't going to have a gravestone if the bible is right since he left his cave and wandered around somewhere after he was crucified
*There has been a little proof he existed, but non that proves he was the son of God or any of that stuff
no or little archaeological proof doesn't really prove anything
we apply the same thinking to all kinds of things in everyday life
the theory of evolution for example, theres loads of evidence to back it up but its still a theory as it hasn't been proved right.
the theory of the atom, noone has seen an atom with their own eyes, we assume that they look the way they do because it fits the most facts, and even if it is proved wrong the world isn't going to collapse in on itself is it.
what else is there...dark matter/dark energy (we can't see it measure it or detect it but it must be there), criminals (innocent until proven guilty), homework (...), The moon landing (if your a conspiracist of course), you get the picture lol
But I never said we had all the answers.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
OK disputer, just for fun, provide the records... you probably just have a belief that such a thing exists. It doesn't.Spark wrote:
I have to dispute this - what about Roman execution records?topal63 wrote:
Jesus is a mythical character with no PROOF whatsoever (historical or archeological).
yes and this Jodah or Yoda fellow was shrunk and turned green and lived for 900 years and died ... on DagobahTigerXtrm wrote:
Doesn't proof anything. All it proves is that sometime in history there was a man called Jesus who had a mother named Maria and a son called Jodah... In no way would it proof he was a prophet, a god or anything else special.
Or... it's all just one big conspiracy!
Tiger
My mistake...topal63 wrote:
OK disputer, just for fun, provide the records... you probably just have a belief that such a thing exists. It doesn't.Spark wrote:
I have to dispute this - what about Roman execution records?topal63 wrote:
Jesus is a mythical character with no PROOF whatsoever (historical or archeological).
Seems I was using bad info.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
HOW DARE YOU QUOTE the holy Star Wars out of context!Tjasso wrote:
yes and this Jodah or Yoda fellow was shrunk and turned green and lived for 900 years and died ... on DagobahTigerXtrm wrote:
Doesn't proof anything. All it proves is that sometime in history there was a man called Jesus who had a mother named Maria and a son called Jodah... In no way would it proof he was a prophet, a god or anything else special.
Or... it's all just one big conspiracy!
Tiger
The dark side has you.....
p.s.
By quote i mean use his name
Last edited by Fen321 (2007-02-23 15:58:32)
No biggie, that idea even sounds reasonable; "Roman execution records"; or some evidence should exist; as it is supposedly the MOST IMPORTANT EVENT THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED EVER...Spark wrote:
My mistake...topal63 wrote:
OK disputer, just for fun, provide the records... you probably just have a belief that such a thing exists. It doesn't.Spark wrote:
I have to dispute this - what about Roman execution records?
Seems I was using bad info.
If this descends into another idiotic evolution aint true thread - a mod needs to reference this other thread:
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=18864
...and close this one...
Last edited by topal63 (2007-02-23 16:13:26)
IM just going to as kthe question plain and simple,
Why do some of you believe in God, rather than believe the more logical fact that evolution did not happen?
Why do some of you believe in God, rather than believe the more logical fact that evolution did not happen?
right on, +1 for uncc6206 wrote:
Do you take every thing you read as the truth??? Did you also miss the quote where the archeologist who found the site says ""The names that are found on the tombs are names that are similar to the names of the family of Jesus," he conceded.
Its laughable that this little snippet and documentary will actually cause a concern for Christianity. Christ rocks!!!!
the bible have been proven incorrect MANY times, this is nothing new...
The bible is wrong no doubt, man was alive before christ..
The bible is wrong no doubt, man was alive before christ..
Fat veiny bollocks
umm, the Bible says that man was alive before Christ............Chillay-14 wrote:
the bible have been proven incorrect MANY times, this is nothing new...
The bible is wrong no doubt, man was alive before christ..
and if the Bible is false, then what do you believe in? that we came from monkeys? do you believe in evolution? cuz if you know, evolution as been proven incorrect MANY times also....
Oh, has it then?Smitty5613 wrote:
umm, the Bible says that man was alive before Christ............Chillay-14 wrote:
the bible have been proven incorrect MANY times, this is nothing new...
The bible is wrong no doubt, man was alive before christ..
and if the Bible is false, then what do you believe in? that we came from monkeys? do you believe in evolution? cuz if you know, evolution as been proven incorrect MANY times also....
The funny thing about education is that its there if you want it....
I guess you'll manage without (for a while at least).
Does it matter? No, this won't stop people from believing and it shouldn't; it's their choice. Every time it's the same debate that gets no where...
Exactly! I ask the same question to those of you that believe in the bible.ncc6206 wrote:
Do you take every thing you read as the truth??? !!!!
those dates don't add up.article wrote:
The makers of a new documentary, to be aired for the first time at a news conference in New York Monday, claim that a tomb found in a Jerusalem cave 36 years ago belongs to none other than Jesus Christ.
The 2000-year-old cave had already been discovered in 1980 in Jerusalem's Talpiyot neighbourhood. In it were 10 coffins, six of which bore inscriptions, which - translated into English - included the names "Jesus son of Joseph," twice "Maria," and "Judah son of Jesus."
Lol. It's an article from the future.Fenix14 wrote:
those dates don't add up.article wrote:
The makers of a new documentary, to be aired for the first time at a news conference in New York Monday, claim that a tomb found in a Jerusalem cave 36 years ago belongs to none other than Jesus Christ.
The 2000-year-old cave had already been discovered in 1980 in Jerusalem's Talpiyot neighbourhood. In it were 10 coffins, six of which bore inscriptions, which - translated into English - included the names "Jesus son of Joseph," twice "Maria," and "Judah son of Jesus."
so its bogus
Orly?Smitty5613 wrote:
umm, the Bible says that man was alive before Christ............Chillay-14 wrote:
the bible have been proven incorrect MANY times, this is nothing new...
The bible is wrong no doubt, man was alive before christ..
and if the Bible is false, then what do you believe in? that we came from monkeys? do you believe in evolution? cuz if you know, evolution as been proven incorrect MANY times also....
When?
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman