afewje
Banned
+5|6581
Havent u ever doubted your faith? with science proving more and more things like the big bang theory and finding more and more evidence its hard not to quesiton your faith. What if God or whoever you believe in isnt real what if u die u die thats it, its over no nothing for the rest of eternity. So iunno i would like to know what you guys think. It would be a shame for all the people in the world to have a crummy life then noting forever. makes you think...

Last edited by afewje (2006-03-22 15:14:41)

Flavius Aetius
Member
+3|6640|Stalking Chuck Norris
i don't consider going to church a crummy life. What has science proven against my religion? I know I can say stuff from the bible to counter-act every claim you have, but their is no proof on my side so you will call it a victory for yourself. Science has shown us a lot, but nothing I would say proves religion wrong.
So my question to you is, why exist?

Last edited by Flavius Aetius (2006-03-22 15:26:06)

afewje
Banned
+5|6581

Flavius Aetius wrote:

i don't consider going to church a crummy life. What has science proven against my religion? I know I can say stuff from the bible to counter-act every claim you have, but their is no proof on my side so you will call it a victory for yourself. Science has shown us a lot, but nothing I would say proves religion wrong.
So my question to you is, why exist?
yes i understand and by crummy life i meant starving children in africa, war torn people and kids that have been raped/abused/hated by their families. To answer your quesiton I can say that point of existence is to procreate but to answer with a religion answer i dont have one? to go to heaven?
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6706|Salt Lake City

Flavius Aetius wrote:

i don't consider going to church a crummy life. What has science proven against my religion? I know I can say stuff from the bible to counter-act every claim you have, but their is no proof on my side so you will call it a victory for yourself. Science has shown us a lot, but nothing I would say proves religion wrong.
So my question to you is, why exist?
Exactly, there is no proof of your side, but mountains of it that disproves your so called counteractions.

Genesis:  Sorry, but this has so much evidence against it that it would be shredded in an instant.

Noah:  Again, we know that water did not in fact cover the entire Earth.  Religious scholars are now saying that this meant the world as they knew it at the time, but this doesn't change the fact that the Bible says everything was flooded.  While given the limited knowledge of the Earth, in its entirety, that would sound reasonable, but it still calls into question the validity of so much of the Bible's writings and how accurate they can really be.

The list goes on and on, but I think I've made my point.  If you believe in God, good for you.  Just remember that religion is based on faith, and it has to be because most of it can't be proven, and a good deal of it is highly questionable given what science has proven.
afewje
Banned
+5|6581

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

Flavius Aetius wrote:

i don't consider going to church a crummy life. What has science proven against my religion? I know I can say stuff from the bible to counter-act every claim you have, but their is no proof on my side so you will call it a victory for yourself. Science has shown us a lot, but nothing I would say proves religion wrong.
So my question to you is, why exist?
Exactly, there is no proof of your side, but mountains of it that disproves your so called counteractions.

Genesis:  Sorry, but this has so much evidence against it that it would be shredded in an instant.

Noah:  Again, we know that water did not in fact cover the entire Earth.  Religious scholars are now saying that this meant the world as they knew it at the time, but this doesn't change the fact that the Bible says everything was flooded.  While given the limited knowledge of the Earth, in its entirety, that would sound reasonable, but it still calls into question the validity of so much of the Bible's writings and how accurate they can really be.

The list goes on and on, but I think I've made my point.  If you believe in God, good for you.  Just remember that religion is based on faith, and it has to be because most of it can't be proven, and a good deal of it is highly questionable given what science has proven.
so what do u believe....
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6706|Salt Lake City

afewje wrote:

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

Flavius Aetius wrote:

i don't consider going to church a crummy life. What has science proven against my religion? I know I can say stuff from the bible to counter-act every claim you have, but their is no proof on my side so you will call it a victory for yourself. Science has shown us a lot, but nothing I would say proves religion wrong.
So my question to you is, why exist?
Exactly, there is no proof of your side, but mountains of it that disproves your so called counteractions.

Genesis:  Sorry, but this has so much evidence against it that it would be shredded in an instant.

Noah:  Again, we know that water did not in fact cover the entire Earth.  Religious scholars are now saying that this meant the world as they knew it at the time, but this doesn't change the fact that the Bible says everything was flooded.  While given the limited knowledge of the Earth, in its entirety, that would sound reasonable, but it still calls into question the validity of so much of the Bible's writings and how accurate they can really be.

The list goes on and on, but I think I've made my point.  If you believe in God, good for you.  Just remember that religion is based on faith, and it has to be because most of it can't be proven, and a good deal of it is highly questionable given what science has proven.
so what do u believe....
That while our bodies are flesh, we are beings, in a large part, also comprised of energy.  Energy cannot be destroyed, only change forms.  When we die, our energy simply changes form and moves on to another state of being.  In religious terms that may be called a soul, but I certainly don't believe in God, or heaven and hell.

Last edited by Agent_Dung_Bomb (2006-03-22 16:19:59)

Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|6664|San Francisco
I believe in science...things that can be actively tested and measured and proven.  I've no need for faith in something that cannot be proven to or to not exist.  I also don't need to follow strict rules and dogma...I choose to live my life as I and common sense sees fit, and I believe that there is no afterlife.  The concept of heaven was created to enforce the dogmatic rules of the religions, to give justification to the control and oppression by religious leaders.  It is used for hope as well, but the main gist of it is with moral obligation/justification.

I believe that when you die, that's it.  No thought, no experience, no feeling, the end.  That's why you live your life to the fullest and make the most of it, rather than live it with expectations of something better down the road.
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6706|Salt Lake City

Marconius wrote:

I believe in science...things that can be actively tested and measured and proven.  I've no need for faith in something that cannot be proven to or to not exist.  I also don't need to follow strict rules and dogma...I choose to live my life as I and common sense sees fit, and I believe that there is no afterlife.  The concept of heaven was created to enforce the dogmatic rules of the religions, to give justification to the control and oppression by religious leaders.  It is used for hope as well, but the main gist of it is with moral obligation/justification.

I believe that when you die, that's it.  No thought, no experience, no feeling, the end.  That's why you live your life to the fullest and make the most of it, rather than live it with expectations of something better down the road.
Well said.  While we have different thought on what happens at the end, I fully agree with your assessment of religion.  I also have a major issue with much of what is stated in the Bible.  Not so much that it can't be proven, but what it says.

Leviticus 20:9-16

9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall surely be put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.

10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

12 And if a man lie with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them.

13 And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

14 And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.

15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.

16 And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Now I'm not aware of any Christian religion that would condone death for these offenses, but that is verbatim from the Bible.  I'm not going to go back and find it, but the Bible also states that God's laws are final, and failure to follow them, to the letter, is certain death and/or eternal damnation.  Given what was said, I would dare say that 98% of the Earth's population has commited a sin worth of death.
Flavius Aetius
Member
+3|6640|Stalking Chuck Norris
so what is the meaning of life? why are we here?
sfg-Ice__
Member
+4|6623
The way I see it...science is just discovering the building blocks of how god did it all.
Flavius Aetius
Member
+3|6640|Stalking Chuck Norris

sfg-Ice__ wrote:

The way I see it...science is just discovering the building blocks of how god did it all.
X2  We have this world to learn more about it
MooseRyder
Member
+37|6625|Montréal, Canada
They said Jesus walked on the water...they forgot to say the stupid lake was frozen

Last edited by MooseRyder (2006-03-22 16:58:14)

herrr_smity
Member
+156|6598|space command ur anus
GOD is not real it he or she has been created to explain life, now THIS might come as a shock to you all but life has no meaning what so ever. mans perception of the world comes from mans ability to sheer ideas true language, if we have no way to communicate we wold still sit in Africa picking the flees of each others backs.
and why of all the religions of the world that has been and are, why are yours the true one.
Marconius
One-eyed Wonder Mod
+368|6664|San Francisco
God is the explanation that people use when they can't explain something, and is constantly used when they have no care to further try to explain something.  God is the death of free thought.
MooseRyder
Member
+37|6625|Montréal, Canada
in other words, God is everyone bitch
vedds
Member
+52|6725|Christchurch New Zealand

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

[
Now I'm not aware of any Christian religion that would condone death for these offenses, but that is verbatim from the Bible.  I'm not going to go back and find it, but the Bible also states that God's laws are final, and failure to follow them, to the letter, is certain death and/or eternal damnation.  Given what was said, I would dare say that 98% of the Earth's population has commited a sin worth of death.
Now im not an expert, but Leviticus is in the Old Testament. Now my understanding is that a lot of the old testament was rendered obsolete by the happenings of the  New Testament. Thats the purpose of the new testament, not to be flippant but, in essence its the "Word of God 2.0." The message delivered by the NT is basically one of forgiveness.

Im sure someone out there is better informed than me on this issue but thats the basis of my understanding.

- No, I'm not a practicing christian.

Last edited by vedds (2006-03-22 17:28:03)

2ndLt.Tucker
If you can read this, your already dead
+33|6653|Stillwater, Ok

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

Marconius wrote:

I believe in science...things that can be actively tested and measured and proven.  I've no need for faith in something that cannot be proven to or to not exist.  I also don't need to follow strict rules and dogma...I choose to live my life as I and common sense sees fit, and I believe that there is no afterlife.  The concept of heaven was created to enforce the dogmatic rules of the religions, to give justification to the control and oppression by religious leaders.  It is used for hope as well, but the main gist of it is with moral obligation/justification.

I believe that when you die, that's it.  No thought, no experience, no feeling, the end.  That's why you live your life to the fullest and make the most of it, rather than live it with expectations of something better down the road.
Well said.  While we have different thought on what happens at the end, I fully agree with your assessment of religion.  I also have a major issue with much of what is stated in the Bible.  Not so much that it can't be proven, but what it says.

Leviticus 20:9-16

9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall surely be put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.

10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

12 And if a man lie with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them.

13 And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

14 And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.

15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.

16 And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Now I'm not aware of any Christian religion that would condone death for these offenses, but that is verbatim from the Bible.  I'm not going to go back and find it, but the Bible also states that God's laws are final, and failure to follow them, to the letter, is certain death and/or eternal damnation.  Given what was said, I would dare say that 98% of the Earth's population has commited a sin worth of death.
However your failing to go into the new testament where Jesus was executed as a means to forgive our sins.  Nobody is ever going to be sin free its impossible.  But you can try to live your life with out sin and as long as you believe and repent in Jesus and God then you shall be saved.  I know that the bible isn't 100% true and you don't have to believe in everything it says. In the end though I still believe even if there wasn't a Jesus that there is a God.  And by many accounts the man really did exist through ancient literature.  If you do some research the ancient egyptians were also known for writing down history on their monuments and there are accounts for the plagues described in the bible.  Read the Dead Sea scrolls too as i found it very interesting.  They were found in 1947 but written around 20BC-60AD.  Right smack in the middle of Jesus' lifetime.  There are versus said to have come from the disciples themselves as well as a few thought to be the true words of Jesus written by himself.  Alot of it is difficult to read because translations are so rough from the years of decay on them.

Last edited by 2ndLt.Tucker (2006-03-22 17:51:10)

Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6706|Salt Lake City

2ndLt.Tucker wrote:

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

Marconius wrote:

I believe in science...things that can be actively tested and measured and proven.  I've no need for faith in something that cannot be proven to or to not exist.  I also don't need to follow strict rules and dogma...I choose to live my life as I and common sense sees fit, and I believe that there is no afterlife.  The concept of heaven was created to enforce the dogmatic rules of the religions, to give justification to the control and oppression by religious leaders.  It is used for hope as well, but the main gist of it is with moral obligation/justification.

I believe that when you die, that's it.  No thought, no experience, no feeling, the end.  That's why you live your life to the fullest and make the most of it, rather than live it with expectations of something better down the road.
Well said.  While we have different thought on what happens at the end, I fully agree with your assessment of religion.  I also have a major issue with much of what is stated in the Bible.  Not so much that it can't be proven, but what it says.

Leviticus 20:9-16

9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall surely be put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.

10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

12 And if a man lie with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them.

13 And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

14 And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.

15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.

16 And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Now I'm not aware of any Christian religion that would condone death for these offenses, but that is verbatim from the Bible.  I'm not going to go back and find it, but the Bible also states that God's laws are final, and failure to follow them, to the letter, is certain death and/or eternal damnation.  Given what was said, I would dare say that 98% of the Earth's population has commited a sin worth of death.
However your failing to go into the new testament where Jesus was executed as a means to forgive our sins.  Nobody is ever going to be sin free its impossible.  But you can try to live your life with out sin and as long as you believe and repent in Jesus and God then you shall be saved.  I know that the bible isn't 100% true and you don't have to believe in everything it says. In the end though I still believe even if there wasn't a Jesus that there is a God.  And by many accounts the man really did exist through ancient literature.  If you do some research the ancient egyptians were also known for writing down history on their monuments and there are accounts for the plagues described in the bible.  Read the Dead Sea scrolls too as i found it very interesting.  The Roman Catholic Church doesn't even recognize these scrolls because it goes against many things they have done.
I believe that we need to treat everyone with dignity, compassion, and respect because they are a human being, and not some ficticious parent figure that is going to punish us if we don't.
herrr_smity
Member
+156|6598|space command ur anus
in the eyes of the Church we are borne sinners, does that mean that life is wrong and is an abomination of the will of "GOD"
and why would a supreme being create the universe and man.
and who made god is god eternal then why cant the universe be eternal
2ndLt.Tucker
If you can read this, your already dead
+33|6653|Stillwater, Ok
^^^^^^

No doubt we all need to show respect and atleast follow some basics to all.  I hold nothing against someone because they dont believe but I also feel you shouldn't go bashing on anothers religion because you dont agree with it or dont believe in religion at all.  Tolerance would be nice but alot of people don't have it.  None the less it is up to the person themself whether or not to believe in a higher being/power and if they choose to fear it or not.  Simple said show compassion, and respect to all regardless of their beliefs.
MephistoJade
Member
+0|6734|USA/England
Between the Jews, Catholics, Muslims, and Christians, there have been countless murders......after the "forgiveness-based" release of the new testaments (IE Christian new testament and Koran, as both religions recognise, to a degree, the old testament).

How many more have to die for the "sins" of competing dogmas?

Personally, I'm going to get involved now, while it's "Fuck the Arabs" in this country.  This is because I know that "Fuck the Muslims" is flawed, as they're for the most part, damned cool people.  This is also because I know that it's going to be one of two things next: "Fuck the Jews" or "Fuck the Atheists".  That flight is never late....ever.  Before, they called it an inquisition.  Presently, the term "Capital Crime" comes to mind, or perhaps "Seditious" or "Un-American"

McCarthy, Thy name is Bush.
afewje
Banned
+5|6581
i have mixed feelings about this situation but i did find this very intresting article and read it. what they say is very compelling http://www.everystudent.com/wires/Godreal.html see for ur self and if it changes ur view on this
wannabe_tank_whore
Member
+5|6747

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

Flavius Aetius wrote:

i don't consider going to church a crummy life. What has science proven against my religion? I know I can say stuff from the bible to counter-act every claim you have, but their is no proof on my side so you will call it a victory for yourself. Science has shown us a lot, but nothing I would say proves religion wrong.
So my question to you is, why exist?
Exactly, there is no proof of your side, but mountains of it that disproves your so called counteractions.

Genesis:  Sorry, but this has so much evidence against it that it would be shredded in an instant.

Noah:  Again, we know that water did not in fact cover the entire Earth.  Religious scholars are now saying that this meant the world as they knew it at the time, but this doesn't change the fact that the Bible says everything was flooded.  While given the limited knowledge of the Earth, in its entirety, that would sound reasonable, but it still calls into question the validity of so much of the Bible's writings and how accurate they can really be.

The list goes on and on, but I think I've made my point.  If you believe in God, good for you.  Just remember that religion is based on faith, and it has to be because most of it can't be proven, and a good deal of it is highly questionable given what science has proven.
Actually, you entire life is based on faith.  You have faith that the chair you're sitting on will hold you.  You have faith that the dollar in your pocket will mean something when you try to use it.  And yes the list can go on and on.

Where has it been proven that the earth was never completely covered in water.   There are sea shells in the mountains of india.  The explanation given in my oceanography book is that the mountain rose out of the sea at one point.  Yet to this day that has never occured again.  Figure the odds on that one and get back to me.
kR4MR
3 Tours Of 'Nam And All I Got Was This Lousy Forum
+3|6707|Aus
I personally am one for science, when jesus can make me a faster processor I may reconsider. 
The thing about the bible is that next to none of it is to be taken literally, yet it is preached in a manner that makes it seem like it is to be taken literally, church is not an obligation for all branches of christianity, it's something you do if you're up to it.
wannabe_tank_whore
Member
+5|6747

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

Marconius wrote:

I believe in science...things that can be actively tested and measured and proven.  I've no need for faith in something that cannot be proven to or to not exist.  I also don't need to follow strict rules and dogma...I choose to live my life as I and common sense sees fit, and I believe that there is no afterlife.  The concept of heaven was created to enforce the dogmatic rules of the religions, to give justification to the control and oppression by religious leaders.  It is used for hope as well, but the main gist of it is with moral obligation/justification.

I believe that when you die, that's it.  No thought, no experience, no feeling, the end.  That's why you live your life to the fullest and make the most of it, rather than live it with expectations of something better down the road.
Well said.  While we have different thought on what happens at the end, I fully agree with your assessment of religion.  I also have a major issue with much of what is stated in the Bible.  Not so much that it can't be proven, but what it says.

Leviticus 20:9-16

9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall surely be put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.

10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

12 And if a man lie with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them.

13 And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

14 And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.

15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.

16 And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Now I'm not aware of any Christian religion that would condone death for these offenses, but that is verbatim from the Bible.  I'm not going to go back and find it, but the Bible also states that God's laws are final, and failure to follow them, to the letter, is certain death and/or eternal damnation.  Given what was said, I would dare say that 98% of the Earth's population has commited a sin worth of death.
Hence, John 3:16.  "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[a] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." 

If you would take the time and read you would understand that the Jews were under the covenant of the Law.  And now, Romans 10:4 Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

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