BF2S Forums Solo Chopper (part 2)

=Karma-Kills= wrote:

Greeting Soldiers: Patch 1.5

Thanks to troop reports coming back from the front lines, we at DICE are pleased to announce new changes to Battlefield 2. By request of Gunnery Sergeant Globefish23, solo choppering will be disabled, and in our continued effort to increase realism, the death / respawn system has been completely remastered.

You are now allowed one death per CD Key. Use it wisely.

The DICE Team.

Hehe!

=Karma-Kills= wrote:

gg

yayz teh realism.

Its a game.

Play it and dont cry.

I don't cry and eagerly play this game.
But Battlefield is one of the more realistic games around, but in certain aspects it falls back to the simplest arcade game mechanisms.

Why have Dice bothered at all to implement a complicated physics engine to calculate every single bullets trajectory, when they then allow a pilot to instantly teleport through inch thick armoured from one seat to the other in a helicopter?
Why did they add a delay when getting up from prone position, but still overlook the instant seat switching?

Also, when people start to start teamkilling only to be alone in a helicopter, something is flawed.

=Karma-Kills= wrote:

Its a game, its meant to be fun. I enjoy solo choppering, if you find it unrealistic, dont do it. But why the hell should you stop me?

You couldn´t have put it better!!!!

We all play the game as we like it the best. Duh!!??
I didn´t buy the game just to please other people, in that case I would just drive around with a car pretending I´m an Ice-cream man waiting to get shot!!!

=Karma-Kills= wrote:

Wow, did you see how i managed to spell "listen" there?!

Anyways, here we go again.

You see the chopper on the pad, no one is around... oh ill just see how many times i can spam "requesting reinforcements" then, wating for a gunner.

You are in the chopper, taking off, some G36E wielding PFC with a 0 - 6 KDR comes running towards you... spaming "requesting a pickup" in between "yes sir" and "enemy boat spotted". What do you do?

1. You bite the bullet and pick the guy up, heck he may be ubez0r.
2. You promptly do your best to spin, and if hes does get in you head to the edge of the map or for laughs just bail and watch him crash.

Now, lets supose you go with Numero Uno. The guy could be Tving everything in sight, knows his hit boxes and is helping the team.

Or, hes the sorta guy that MGs tanks, and shouts "H4xx" (after finaly learning to right click and TV) when his TV goes through.

To be honest, a chopper with a decent gunner is much better than a solo pilot. But one with a shoddy gunner is next to worthless.

I tried macros with my G15, and tbh i found they made the process harder. I need to be in control, and in a fratnic firefight one slip of the finger could send you right click, left click, left click, left click, change view, bail... in a storm of macros.

Well, in theory, this sounds almost plausible.  However, the reality (or so I've been witness to) is that it looks more like these scenarios with the solo pilots that I've encountered:

SCENARIO 1:
The round starts, and I run to the chopper in an attempt to take a gunner position.  Instead of being hailed with a barrage of "Requesting reinforcements,"  I'm barraged with a number of "Get out!" and "Bail out!" commands.

Now mind you, I'm not some PFC, but I am still barraged with a "get out!"  I'll be the first to admit that I'm "alright" when it comes to flying a chopper from point A to point B.  However, I do know how to run the machine gun (including spotting and leading targets), use the TV missile, and use the VoiP to let the pilot know where the AA locks are coming from, or that a tank, TOW, or AT may have a bead on us.

However, the pilot decides that instead of utilizing the advantages of having a gunner, he spams hellfires, and returns to base to reload at every opportunity.

SCENARIO 2:
Same as scenario 1, but instead of letting me stay with the chopper, this soloer is a complete ass.  He'll do anything to get rid of me.  Whether that is through a .50 cal to the head, an ejection from the chopper to allow it to crash, or a full blown redlining.

BUT HEY!  I'M A CAPTAIN!

Nope... Doesn't care...

SCENARIO 3:
This pilot wouldn't mind going solo, or with a gunner.  Either way, he's now flying.  Maybe he'll be lucky, and get a great gunner.  Maybe not.

-------------------------------

Now, I've gotta say that most of my encounters with a soloer are those from scenarios 1 and 2.  I only say that, because it seems that 95% of the chopper maps don't turn out with someone not wanting to gun for the chopper pilot, or there just isn't someone capable of even performing solo-TV flying.

The other times that I have been on the team with a dedicated solo-pilot, they try to take the chopper at the beginning of the round, and go solo not only from the beginning, but throughout the whole round.  These soloers will unload there ordinance, return to the helipad with three people waiting for a chance in the chopper, and make it a point to ignore the "Give me a ride" requests.

I'm sorry, but I've seen this happen enough that I find it quite hard to believe all the "Well, what if there aren't any gunners available?" excuses.

Now what about the "What if the gunner sucks?" excuse.

Well, how do you know if the gunner sucks?  As I've said, I've gunned for most of my time in a chopper, and the times that I can't make kills are usually due to the pilot not putting me in a position to get kills.  I don't cry about this, because they could be yanking and banking from enemy fire, see something that I don't, or half a dozen other reasons.

But what about those gunners that truly do suck?  Well, it's not like those hellfire missiles are there for nothing (and they are capable of killing armor).  However, every one of us started as PFCs, and we all sucked at one point.  What better person to teach a rookie gunner than an experienced pilot?

No, I'm sorry, but most of the excuses of solo-choppering usually come down to one thing.

Self-ish-ness.

----------------------------------

Now, let's point out some of the other negative things involved with solo-choppering.

Most of the solo pilots out there are typically using the TV missile in one manner.  Flying high enough to sight enemies, fire the TV missile, and recover to pilot position before losing control and hitting the ground.

Flying high also provides many other advantages to the solo chopper pilot.

1.  Mobile AA flak fire proves to be inaccurate due to target lead, and bulletdrop.  Even if hits are scored, it's easy for the solo-pilot to move out of sight, and return for repairs.

2.  AA missiles fired from ground level have a shorter range to "lock-on" a target than the TV missile has range.  Likewise, fixed AA sites are easy to locate and destroy, and mobile AA is easy to see, even at range.

3.  Ground TOW and AT missiles either prove to be too slow and/or have too limited of a range to hit the chopper.

4.  The only remaining dangers are other attack choppers, and fighters.  Luckily for solo-pilots, most enemy chopper or fighter pilots prefer to stay closer to the action on the ground, than spend any lengthy time dogfighting it out with other aircraft.

Obviously, one solution would be to give the troops on the ground the tools necessary to kill high flying choppers by giving them AA missiles that lock at longer ranges.  The problem here is that the advantage would sharply change to AA users on certain maps where the horizon's fog is set closer.

Another solution would be to give the ground infantry something like Stingers to hit aircraft.  Of course, many pilots would be opposed to this, because they'd almost never know where the missiles are coming from (no HUD box indicators, stationary AA targets, or easy to see mobile AA vehicles).

Or...

Eliminate seat switching in the chopper altogether.

TrueArchon hit it on the head, solo-piloting is just plain selfish in a team based game. Don't be a tard just pick someone up if they suck oh well you die, its a game at least you gave the guy a chance and now won't GO TO HELL!!

Why didnt you just ask

"Should Soloing be patched out of the game?"


Wouldnt that give you a better idea?

I don't mind people solo'ing when no-one else wants to be in the chopper.

Like mentioned before though i get pissed at people telling me to get out or for them to deadzone you just so they can do it on there own.

Otherwise i couldn't care less i tend to spend less time waiting for choppers now,i get bored of waiting/queing.

Phatso wrote:

sursparxalot wrote:

at least you gave the guy a chance and now won't GO TO HELL!!

You telling me that when i am 20-0 in 5 minutes of the round starting and you or a 5 Star General says "Pick me you n00bz0r!!1" and i say "No", i am going to hell?


Ok.

Sarcasm is lost on the internets.

Ah, I voted no because I thought it was about playing on your own and seatswitch.

But I agree that it's annoying to see people bring others to the red zone, to have their gunner killed, only to die two minutes later.

So if the attack heli is there and no-one else around, it's oke to solo-heli. but if someone is waiting, you take him in your gunner seat (or let him fly).

=Karma-Kills= wrote:

Nice post, a lot of detail, effort and maybe even emotion there!... but your another one with minimal time in a chopper, criticising without any proper background knowledge / experience. Please let us be.

Thanks.  However, I've gotta say that "time in the chopper" has little impact for the argument on hand.  The fact remains that most populated servers have around 32 players, and trying to find a decent gunner out of at least 15 teammates should not pose a problem (more often than not).

If "time played" is such a concern, my close to 800 hours experience should still count for something, and my experience with solo pilots is that most soloists follow very closely with the behavior in my aforementioned post.  Now, mind you, that would be most of the solo-pilots I've come across, and not all of them.

=Karma-Kills= wrote:

PS when i do solo, i fly lower than higher... just FYI.

Interesting.  You're a rare breed then.

---------------------------------------------------

TrueArchon wrote:

No, I'm sorry, but most of the excuses of solo-choppering usually come down to one thing.
Self-ish-ness.

sursparxalot wrote:

TrueArchon hit it on the head, solo-piloting is just plain selfish in a team based game. Don't be a tard just pick someone up if they suck oh well you die, its a game at least you gave the guy a chance and now won't GO TO HELL!!

I-=C-A-V-E-M-A-N=-I wrote:

Yes there are quite a few selfish asshats in this game.  But, I am not one of them.  I will give someone a chance if they are at least E7 or above or if they somehow sneak into my chopper.  Hey I need to get my driver kill ass points somehow right?  But, and i mean BUT! If they suck I will make sure they never get a chance to get back in.  When i solo I fly at a normal level, and i support those on the ground.  Sure I can't gun for shit solo, but it seems that unless I have the gunner on teamspeak with me, they dont even shoot at shit.  Under these circumstances, the gunner is useless and is actually hurting the team.  All they are accomplishing is taking up space. I really Fing hate getting shot with a tv missile when i point the gunner at a helo.  A miss is acceptable, but not knowing how to aim one or how to even use one is not.

Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:

I solo pilot out of selflessness for my team. I'd rather fly with a good gunner but if non exist I'm better helping the team by myself.

I should point out that I didn't say all soloists were selfish (though, I'd still bet that many are).  I was pointing out that most of the EXCUSES for keeping solo-piloting within that game is done out of selfishness.

A better way to look at it would be:

What's the worst that would happen if solo-piloting were removed?

Solo ftw....

I don't think it's wrong unless someone wants to gun for a pilot and they leave them at the landing pad.  If not one's around and a pilot is good enough to solo, then more power to him.

globefish23 wrote:

I don't cry and eagerly play this game.
But Battlefield is one of the more realistic games around, but in certain aspects it falls back to the simplest arcade game mechanisms.

Why have Dice bothered at all to implement a complicated physics engine to calculate every single bullets trajectory, when they then allow a pilot to instantly teleport through inch thick armoured from one seat to the other in a helicopter?
Why did they add a delay when getting up from prone position, but still overlook the instant seat switching?

Also, when people start to start teamkilling only to be alone in a helicopter, something is flawed.

As an online multiplayer game, BF2 is subject to the flaws of internet data transmission.  That’s the reason for the arcade mechanisms.  If you want realism, how about making the pilot and gunner take the time to strap in . . . hitting E is in no way realistic.  Neither is taking off in a chopper in 5 seconds that is not already running. 

I’d rather have a delay for prone than see people dolphin diving like fools across the battlefield.  If one is using prone properly, there's no issue and you'll pick people off if you're a good shot.  However, if you're spamming prone, standing, prone, standing, prone, standing . . . heck yeah there should be a delay.  No soldier does that.  Also, teamkilling for a chopper is a player flaw, not a game flaw.

Try 2142 if you don't like the chopper soloing.  Switching positions in a 2142 chopper and it’ll drop like a stone and you’ll be lucky to keep it from plowing a trench in the ground.  Hence, no soloing.  No dolphin diving in 2142 either, which I like.

Last edited by Stingray24 (2007-02-23 08:37:50)

In addition to my previous post, I will add some light based on two different rounds I played, yesterday.

Scenerio for both games: Dragon Valley 32 players/ 64 Map.

Round 1: Solo & Better than average gunner (a Major) I rack up over 90 points soloing, so yes I was helping my team and, no there was not one person to ask for a ride. In last 20 or so minutes of the round a Major joins the server. He hops in, i ask nicely for him to exit, saying take the other empty heli. He refuses, so we take off. I end the round with 1st place, and 150 points, k:d was something like 45+kills and 20+ deaths. So Im happy. It did pay-off since he could acutally use all the gunner's assets.

Round 2: Last game of the night, I switch teams from all of my friends. At least 4 of them are very good pilots/ gunners. So I'm planning on soloing against them, but this nice Gunnery Sergent hops in. he fires the TV 1st and i see him redirect it, so I'm thinking this is a good sign. He says he has trouble seeing the target receptacle in the clouds. I say," lol, yeah that's the fog here at Dragon Valley. It make for a good challenge!"  I give him the heli gunner tip of the day- hit Q to recenter the receptacle, he said thanks I never knew that. During all of this I'm on Ventrilo with all my buddies, and the are like man you sure are dying a lot. I say I know , I'm showing this guy some things. In the end, gaining a much deserved Purple Heart, my Kills are 12, deaths 36! That was one of the most demonstrative rounds I can remember! But you know what, I had fun, and hopefully showed that guy a few things to hope for, hopefully after he practices!

So, I still believe it is ok for a skilled pilot to solo. As some one, stated a few post up, I would have loved to see a shooting range to practice shooting all of the rifles/ pistols; a moving tank range for AT, and a flight training program for new pilots; a medic school for healing/ reviving under fire, etc, etc

Look, everyone has the fair chance of getting in there.  Anyone who says that soloing is bad for the team, is sorely mistaken.  Soloing is a GOOD thing.  Soloing makes it so that if there is only one good gunner on a team, he can still do his job.  Could you imagine if you HAD to pick up a dude who couldn't fly or gun?  I'd throw the game away.  I don't have the time to be someone's teacher, it's not my job, and it certainly doesn't say ANYTHING about that on the box.  The only people who think it's a bad thing, are the people who can't do it, period.  Even if I'm not trying to be in the chopper for the round, ALL that i ask is that our heli team is competent.  If that means one dude, so be it.  I just want them to do their job.  Which is kill tanks, then attack choppers, and then infantry.  ALL of which can be done by one guy, easily.  2 guys, 1 guy, I don't care as long as they do their job.

Last edited by oChaos.Haze (2007-02-23 11:47:38)