(T)eflon(S)hadow
R.I.P. Neda
+456|7276|Grapevine, TX

XCheapshotX wrote:

Could one of the Ex Marines explain how they are trained please? Are you trained to aim and shoot or spray and pray in CQB? I know that the 5.56 rnd was picked by NATO a while back so the infantryman could carry more ammo than with 7.62 - As a Brit I can only go on what British troops have said, and this is going back to the Falklands Islands campaign of 1982.
The SAS and Marine Commando Mountain and Arctic Warfare Cadre were issued M16s if preferred, while the rest of the British task force and Argentine opposition had 7.62 mm L1a1 SLRs or the FN FAL. The Spec ops lads complained then the 5.56 had no stopping power compared to the 7.62 rnd but still carried the M16 as it was lighter and if they had to go full auto the barrel didn't rise as much as a heavier calibre rifle. The Brit L1a1 was semi auto only but the Argentine FALs were full auto I think.
If I can also add a further matter to answer: I've read Bing West, Evan Wright and Tim Pritchard and to me they suggest that longer range firefights were usually decided by humvees with 50 cals, LAV 25 mm or the optically sighted M240s on the Abrams. However, in CQB which we saw in Fallejuah and Basra, etc the grunts does all the work so......Would you prefer ( and do you need ) a return to a weapon with longer range and stopping power or something lighter which is more convenient in downtown Sadr City? Thx
Well, in a nut shell. Start with natural bone support, relax. Look at your front sight post, then correct your sight alignment, and when you think all is good, (correct for wind and range with rear sight post adjustments), at the point you breath out, there is a natural pause. That is the point your give a meaningful slow trigger pull, making sure you have good follow through. Don't just let off,You could have a perfect shot, but if you don't follow through,  you could have just wasted it all. Something you have all heard, from the Marines is "One Shot, One Kill." Well I think that is more for the snipers, than the  guys in the thick shit. Then its all about cover and fire and destroying anything in  your way to the intended target.  Does that answer your question, XCheapshotX?

I really can't answer your second part. I was lucky I guess, I didn't get orders to Iraq or Afghanistan. I could see the benefit of having a 7.62mm , but the added weight of the gun has to be considered. Thats why we have the M249 SAW(POS5.56mm) and the M249G(Great 7.62mm). Personally I love and miss my M16. Yes I called it a Micky Mouse gun, because its so easy to shoot any kid, practically, could. But, never being taught before boot camp to shoot a rifle , the USMC knows its shit. That's why every US Marine is a Rifleman first. By the third and qualifying week of Rifle training, I was shooting man size targets 9/10 times 500 meters away, with the open sights on that range, so again, I love that rifle.
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6892|The Land of Scott Walker
You qualified expert shooting 9/10 at that distance, correct?  Nice.
(T)eflon(S)hadow
R.I.P. Neda
+456|7276|Grapevine, TX
Actually, no. only Sharp Shooter. I missed a few +5 points in the standing and kneeling at the 300m line. (Based on the old scoring system.) But the challenge of being 500m away was why it was my favorite, in the Rifle qual.
https://www.uspharmd.com/usmc/images/rifle_shapshooter.jpg
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6814|Columbus, Ohio
Not me....

https://www.jakespizza.com/img/pizza_box.jpg
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|7137|Tampa Bay Florida
Thanks a bunch for the post, Stingray, really cool stuff you found there.

Can anyone find out why they abandoned the M8 project?  If they don't like the M16, don't you think they should be looking for replacements as fast as possible?  I mean, heck, if it's less popular than the M14, I think they've got a serious problem.....
(T)eflon(S)hadow
R.I.P. Neda
+456|7276|Grapevine, TX

usmarine2007 wrote:

Not me....

http://www.jakespizza.com/img/pizza_box.jpg
HAHAhaha, LMAO, perfect pic man! Perfect!
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6915

Spearhead wrote:

Thanks a bunch for the post, Stingray, really cool stuff you found there.

Can anyone find out why they abandoned the M8 project?  If they don't like the M16, don't you think they should be looking for replacements as fast as possible?  I mean, heck, if it's less popular than the M14, I think they've got a serious problem.....
Because is was to expensive and not reliyably enough for the money. I still would say that judging from what these guys are saying the best we could give them are AK-103s for their rifle and USPs for their side arm.
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|7091
how do yall feel about paper targets?  i qualed using paper targets for the first time and i fucking bolo'ed it.  im not used to.  last time i qual'ed before that I was expert.  paper is supposed to be easier, but i think thats bullshit.  the bullet trajectory and the fact you dont know what the fuck you hit when you miss pisses me off that this is my actual real qual.  im no sniper but i was always an excellent shot...
Sgt.Zubie
Member
+77|7022

usmarine2007 wrote:

arabeater wrote:

S3v3N wrote:


Thats if you can get the Saw to "accept" the magazine and actually fire the rounds, I've never had luck with that ghey magazine port.

I wasn't a Jalapeno MRE Cheese guy myself.. Gimme your PoundCake PFC...

Okay Corporal....
Heres a question for all of the military types here, whats you favorite MRE?

Mine would have to be the Chili Mac. Or if it had Pound Cake and crackers with the jalapeno cheese spread or some Tootsie rolls, that would be a close second.

I always traded away the Country Chicken ones. Ewwww.....
Man I loved chili mac.  But my "old school" favorite was beef stew.  With a shitload of Tabasco of course.
I thought they all sucked...but a shitload of Tabasco did make them better...the beef stew was Ok but if I HAD to pick a favorite it would be the chicken a la king
Commie Killer
Member
+192|6834

Spearhead wrote:

Thanks a bunch for the post, Stingray, really cool stuff you found there.

Can anyone find out why they abandoned the M8 project?  If they don't like the M16, don't you think they should be looking for replacements as fast as possible?  I mean, heck, if it's less popular than the M14, I think they've got a serious problem.....
Wasnt enough of a improvement to justify the price.
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6814|Columbus, Ohio

Sgt.Zubie wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

arabeater wrote:


Heres a question for all of the military types here, whats you favorite MRE?

Mine would have to be the Chili Mac. Or if it had Pound Cake and crackers with the jalapeno cheese spread or some Tootsie rolls, that would be a close second.

I always traded away the Country Chicken ones. Ewwww.....
Man I loved chili mac.  But my "old school" favorite was beef stew.  With a shitload of Tabasco of course.
I thought they all sucked...but a shitload of Tabasco did make them better...the beef stew was Ok but if I HAD to pick a favorite it would be the chicken a la king
I didn't like the chicken for some reason.  I still stand by my omelet with ham....err spam.
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6892|The Land of Scott Walker
How about something like the Springfield SOCOM series?  Then the military could have it made with whatever caliber they choose. 
http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod- … m-ii.shtml
I'd take this one:
http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod- … cout.shtml
Commie Killer
Member
+192|6834

Stingray24 wrote:

How about something like the Springfield SOCOM series?  Then the military could have it made with whatever caliber they choose. 
http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod- … m-ii.shtml
I'd take this one:
http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod- … cout.shtml
The first one is a super modified M14, the next one is a M14 with a civilian designation.
deeznutz1245
Connecticut: our chimps are stealin yo' faces.
+483|6940|Connecticut

usmarine2007 wrote:

Not me....

http://www.jakespizza.com/img/pizza_box.jpg
lololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololollolololololololololololololololol.
Cant........stop............laughing..............lolololololololololololoolol
Malloy must go
deeznutz1245
Connecticut: our chimps are stealin yo' faces.
+483|6940|Connecticut

XCheapshotX wrote:

Could one of the Ex Marines explain how they are trained please?
Former....sorry it was bugging me.
Malloy must go
ts-pulsar
Member
+54|6949

Spearhead wrote:

Thanks a bunch for the post, Stingray, really cool stuff you found there.

Can anyone find out why they abandoned the M8 project?  If they don't like the M16, don't you think they should be looking for replacements as fast as possible?  I mean, heck, if it's less popular than the M14, I think they've got a serious problem.....
Because it's not really necessary.  The M16's problems are mostly magazine related.  The magazines our military receives aren't very high quality, it's fairly well known that you never fully load an M16 magazine or it jams, you only put in 25-28 rounds.  High quality mags do exist, but the government doesn't buy them. 

The other problem the M16 has is that troops tend to over oil them, and oil attracts dust.  It only takes a drop of CLP (oil) on the finger, and then rub that oil on the carrier and bolt where you see wear spots and your done.

I still agree that 5.56 is underpowered, but there are some promising bullets coming along based on the 5.56x45 cartridge, like the 6.8mm SPC.  The M16 is capable of shooting 6.8spc, it just takes a barrel swap and new magazines, which is easy on the M16.  It's got more stopping power than 7.62x39 (AK ammo) and doesn't require training the troops on a new weapon.
Kukulcan
Member
+6|6748|The Battlefield
I think that the United States should refresh their gear.... i mean : the M16 is REALLY old. Ok now it's version A2 , but basically is the same rifle.

It had problem of jamming already during the vietnam war and it keeps jamming...

USA should change their weaponary if they want to stand a chance on the next century battlefields , especially compared to the new age weaponary of nations like china.

They are developing interesting new weapons , however.

Last edited by Kukulcan (2007-01-27 16:15:40)

apollo_fi
The Flying Kalakukko.
+94|6977|The lunar module
I used this

https://i13.tinypic.com/2m78dgz.jpg

to get this

https://i13.tinypic.com/4fvf5ow.gif

...the point? None whatsoever, I guess.
Commie Killer
Member
+192|6834

Kukulcan wrote:

I think that the United States should refresh their gear.... i mean : the M16 is REALLY old. Ok now it's version A2 , but basically is the same rifle.

It had problem of jamming already during the vietnam war and it keeps jamming...

USA should change their weaponary if they want to stand a chance on the next century battlefields , especially compared to the new age weaponary of nations like china.

They are developing interesting new weapons , however.
Dont seem to know too much about US weaponry so Ill fill you in.

1. It is now up to model A4 not A2.
2. The reason it jammed during the first years of Vietnam was because it was labeled as "the rifle that never needed cleaning" so no cleaning kits were issued. Once cleaning kits were issued the problem of guns jamming virtually disappeared.
3. The M16A2/A3/A4 models are all more accurate the most other assault rifles in the world.
4. I would take one of the M16 models over the Type what ever rifle that is pretty much a redesignated AK47 which is used by the large majority of the PLA, PLAN, PLAAF and other branches of there military and government security forces.


Just another tip, dont take things from a video game as if they are facts.
joewardog
Member
+6|7137|Great Plains (USA)
Changing gears a bit,

Any word of replacements for the Beretta for the marines?  If my sources are correct, the air force was in charge of small arms and that was the reason for the move away from the Colt governments to the Berettas (they wanted a more managable side arm).  For the marines, they predominantly switched out their old side arms for the new Berettas and because they actually shoot these weapons, they've found out that after discharging the weapon about 3,000-4,000 times that part of the weapon would fly back and hit the marine in the face (or pretty close too).  Currently, I've heard they are reinforcing the weapon so it can last a bit longer, however I've also heard that they want to do away with it altogether and perhaps go back to the old Colts.

I'm curious so please correct and enlighten me, thanks.
ts-pulsar
Member
+54|6949
The slides tend to develop cracks in the Berettas after a couple thousand rounds.  It's actually a simple fix, just add a little more metal.  But that's not the Beretta's only problem, for one 9mm just isn't enough stopping power, most police in the United States don't even use 9mm anymore for that reason, most have gone on to .40 S&W. 

Another problem it's got is that the slide is open, which allows a lot more dirt to get into the gun than would otherwise on almost every other handgun on the planet.

And of course, they suffer from the same magazine problems as the M16, they suck balls.
jonnykill
The Microwave Man
+235|7126
M-16 series is a failure. M-60 - failure. SAW Failure. Why the feck can't we make good weapons?
I had an M-16. Sold that POS for $400 just to get rid of it and bought my first AK. Since then I bought 5 more AK's
Kukulcan
Member
+6|6748|The Battlefield

Commie Killer wrote:

Kukulcan wrote:

I think that the United States should refresh their gear.... i mean : the M16 is REALLY old. Ok now it's version A2 , but basically is the same rifle.

It had problem of jamming already during the vietnam war and it keeps jamming...

USA should change their weaponary if they want to stand a chance on the next century battlefields , especially compared to the new age weaponary of nations like china.

They are developing interesting new weapons , however.
Dont seem to know too much about US weaponry so Ill fill you in.

1. It is now up to model A4 not A2.
2. The reason it jammed during the first years of Vietnam was because it was labeled as "the rifle that never needed cleaning" so no cleaning kits were issued. Once cleaning kits were issued the problem of guns jamming virtually disappeared.
3. The M16A2/A3/A4 models are all more accurate the most other assault rifles in the world.
4. I would take one of the M16 models over the Type what ever rifle that is pretty much a redesignated AK47 which is used by the large majority of the PLA, PLAN, PLAAF and other branches of there military and government security forces.


Just another tip, dont take things from a video game as if they are facts.
The Type-56 (chinese ak copy )and Type 81 ( modified ak 47 ) , are not very used nowadays in the PLA. They developed all new series of next generation weaponary as the type 95 , whic is rapidly substituting the older type 81.

I mean : those thing AREN'T just stone-throwers , no? It's a common place ( as we say in italy ) saying ''China military uses locally produced versions of russian weaponary''.... that's not true nowadays.
In every branch they are devoloping new locally ideated weapons..... and they work great.

One more thing , i don't take thing from videogames.... the more used versions of M16 are still the A2 and the A3...

Last edited by Kukulcan (2007-01-28 02:27:30)

SgtHeihn
Should have ducked
+394|6934|Ham Lake, MN (Fucking Cold)
No, the standard rifle for the Marines Corps is the M16A4, the US Army is the same, but they issue more M4s to their troops. Its funny how people are saying the M16 family is old.... The AK family of weapons came out in the Early 50's, the AK-47 was replaced by the AKM and the AKM was replaced by the AK-74 and now??? The M-16's max effective range is 550m on a point target, The AK is only 300m. I'm sick of hearing people quote the M-16 jams, BLAH BLAH BLAH. I had a M16-A4 that I fired a bad round out of that blew the mag out, and bent the ejector well out of wack(i.e. 90degree angle), it went to the armory for 2 days and I took it to the range and was shooting 1in groups with it(yes I had a ACOG). If you clean the M-16 its a great fucking weapon, if you don't....
its your ass Mr. Postman. The same goes for any weapon. We found AK-47s in Iraq that were so fouled up they wouldn't shoot!!! The only weapon I found in Iraq that would shoot with no cleaning, caked with sand, and bad rounds, was a German Mauser K-98(bolt action) with Nazi markings on it from 1943.

Edit: Yes the AK is fun, full auto is a blast but you can't hit shit!!

Last edited by SgtHeihn (2007-01-28 03:32:59)

fadedsteve
GOP Sympathizer
+266|6937|Menlo Park, CA
The US military is in the process of changing the M16 btw. . . . .

They (US military) were in developing/testing the XM8 assault rifle to replace the M16/M4, but apparently that has been suspended. . .

I never understood why the SAW was created with 5.56 ammo. .  moreover, why is this ammo still our standard caliber? I have a feeling after this conflict is through some grunt hardware WILL be changing!

Not too mention, why our service men aren't issued .45 pistols EN MASS!? a 9mm. . .cmon! maybe in a ghetto firefight in East Palo Alto or Richmond, but Iraq. . .negative! My grandfather and Dad carried them in both their respective conflicts(WWII and Vietnam), and never had any complaints whatsoever! Why change shit that aint broke?

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