Iron Gator must be one of the most ill-concieved maps ever created. It's only fun either on 16 player size, or if you're the marines. MEC gets owned. Hard.
Belcorwyn
Belcorwyn
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Yeah that map is dumb if the Mec chopper can't clear somewhat of a path for the rest of the team. I immediately out of bounds any gunner that doesn't tv the essex gun from a distance. Shooting through fog isn't hard and you really hurt the team if you can't do it on that map.
Then you need to play on the proper servers and learn the tactics. MECSF more often win it through getting a few troops on the ship and capping enough flags before the SEALs even bother to react.TheBelcorwyn wrote:
Iron Gator must be one of the most ill-concieved maps ever created. It's only fun either on 16 player size, or if you're the marines. MEC gets owned. Hard.
Belcorwyn
Play on the 32man 24/7 Gator servers, you will soon realise that it is finely balanced and MEC actually have a better chance than SEALs of winning.
Ill concieved .. sure.. to a point.. when it comes to GETTING ON the ship, but that's where practice and teamwork come into play ..TheBelcorwyn wrote:
Iron Gator must be one of the most ill-concieved maps ever created. It's only fun either on 16 player size, or if you're the marines. MEC gets owned. Hard.
Belcorwyn
Noobs have to read ingame chat, or use the VOIP .. plain and simple. I've had so many noob gunners who don't know how to direct a TV, much less have us get caught watching while I nose up for a shot and he's firing down rounds on infantry on the flight deck.. This is where I usually fly over top viewing deck and bail, and bolt thru the side door ... because, really there is no point flying a hind if you don't have a gunner (I think). The nubs will learn quick. And gunners really have to pay attention.. and SPOT things.
I don't know. I've always enjoyed this map even though there were plenty of times where we did get owned. hard.
well basically it is a 32 player, on weeknights theres never more then 30ish people
You fail to take into consideration the relatively simple counter-measures employable by the SEAL team that effectively defeats all entry. A good SEAL team will always defeat a good MEC team. Only when the SEAL team is chock full of Flight Deck AT jackals, leaving the other points of entry open (hangar bay and bottom level docks) unattended does the MEC team stand a chance. Add to the SEALs' already considerable advantage an Apache and it's over--utterly over. The Apache owns all other choppers, hands down.Snake wrote:
Then you need to play on the proper servers and learn the tactics. MECSF more often win it through getting a few troops on the ship and capping enough flags before the SEALs even bother to react.
Play on the 32man 24/7 Gator servers, you will soon realise that it is finely balanced and MEC actually have a better chance than SEALs of winning.
While your write up concerning proper Iron Gator tactics is good food for thought (and I thank you for commiting the time to write it up), it leaves out the element of smurfs. Idiot smurfs are unavoidable. Much of your applied strategy is only effective with a coordinated effort comprised of a majority of your teamates.
This is specifically what I'm talking about. This map may be fun (maybe) for clan scrims/matches, but imo it makes for an awful public server map.Noobs have to read ingame chat, or use the VOIP .. plain and simple. I've had so many noob gunners who don't know how to direct a TV, much less have us get caught watching while I nose up for a shot and he's firing down rounds on infantry on the flight deck.. This is where I usually fly over top viewing deck and bail, and bolt thru the side door ... because, really there is no point flying a hind if you don't have a gunner (I think). The nubs will learn quick. And gunners really have to pay attention.. and SPOT things.
Belcorwyn
EDIT* I will give you the benefit of the doubt and I'll be joining your above mentioned server to see if I notice any significant difference from my already soundly established experience with the map (several of my clanmates, for some unfathomable reason , enjoy the map, too, and they often drag me into one with them).
Last edited by TheBelcorwyn (2007-01-23 14:11:03)
A good hind a pilot and a good gunner can easily take the apache down. As for the mec team take the AA down and the apache and cover your team as they cap the flight deck while you are keeping the apache down simple.TheBelcorwyn wrote:
You fail to take into consideration the relatively simple counter-measures employable by the SEAL team that effectively defeats all entry. A good SEAL team will always defeat a good MEC team. Only when the SEAL team is chock full of top level AT jackals, leaving the other points of entry open (hangar bay and bottom level docks) unattended does the MEC team stand a chance. Add to the SEALs' already considerable advantage an Apache and it's over--utterly over. The Apache owns all other choppers, hands down.Snake wrote:
Then you need to play on the proper servers and learn the tactics. MECSF more often win it through getting a few troops on the ship and capping enough flags before the SEALs even bother to react.
Play on the 32man 24/7 Gator servers, you will soon realise that it is finely balanced and MEC actually have a better chance than SEALs of winning.
While your write up concerning proper Iron Gator tactics is good food for thought (and I thank you for commiting the time to write it up), it leaves out the element of smurfs. Idiot smurfs are unavoidable. Much of your applied strategy is only effective with a coordinated effort comprised of a majority of your teamates.This is specifically what I'm talking about. This map may be fun (maybe) for clan scrims/matches, but imo it makes for an awful public server map.Noobs have to read ingame chat, or use the VOIP .. plain and simple. I've had so many noob gunners who don't know how to direct a TV, much less have us get caught watching while I nose up for a shot and he's firing down rounds on infantry on the flight deck.. This is where I usually fly over top viewing deck and bail, and bolt thru the side door ... because, really there is no point flying a hind if you don't have a gunner (I think). The nubs will learn quick. And gunners really have to pay attention.. and SPOT things.
Belcorwyn
EDIT* I will give you the benefit of the doubt and I'll be joining your above mentioned server to see if I notice any significant difference from my already soundly established experience with the map (several of my clanmates, for some unfathomable reason , enjoy the map, too, and they often drag me into one with them).
Or just split the 64 slots somehow....2 different servers 32 slots and both Iron gator or 1 GHOST TOWN...
Im making fun...but actually i love Gator if its good INF fight and not Chopper raping...
Im making fun...but actually i love Gator if its good INF fight and not Chopper raping...
In all my experience with SF (which is what I play primarily) and the choppers therein, this statement is absolutely false -- unless the pilot of the Apache is a NOOB. Two pilots of congruent skill in either chopper and my money will always be on the Apache.The_Killer wrote:
A good hind a pilot and a good gunner can easily take the apache down.
The Apache is so easy to fly, my 3 year old brother can do it. Literally.
Belcorwyn
They dont have to be noobs a good hind pilot and good gunner who can use the tv can easily take the apache down. The apache isnt that good i acctualy like the hind better it might be a little faster and can manuver better but it isnt impossible to take it down. So your saying just because the apache is a little better a very good gunner couldnt win against it?TheBelcorwyn wrote:
In all my experience with SF (which is what I play primarily) and the choppers therein, this statement is absolutely false -- unless the pilot of the Apache is a NOOB. Two pilots of congruent skill in either chopper and my money will always be on the Apache.The_Killer wrote:
A good hind a pilot and a good gunner can easily take the apache down.
The Apache is so easy to fly, my 3 year old brother can do it. Literally.
Belcorwyn
Now that you've specifically expanded your reasoning behind your first statement..TheBelcorwyn wrote:
This is specifically what I'm talking about. This map may be fun (maybe) for clan scrims/matches, but imo it makes for an awful public server map.
"Iron Gator must be one of the most ill-concieved maps ever created. It's only fun either on 16 player size, or if you're the marines. MEC gets owned. Hard. "
Now I agree with you fully.
Last edited by Rayvenwolf (2007-01-23 14:20:18)
I assume you are speaking of me the guy who also forces you to play Devil's PerchTheBelcorwyn wrote:
EDIT* I will give you the benefit of the doubt and I'll be joining your above mentioned server to see if I notice any significant difference from my already soundly established experience with the map (several of my clanmates, for some unfathomable reason , enjoy the map, too, and they often drag me into one with them).
Iron Gator is such a fun map if played correctly. However, if your team is full of idiots it turns into a spawn camping fest like 90% of Ghost Town rounds.
You have less than 5 hours on the map you wouldnt know if it was good or not.Rayvenwolf wrote:
Now that you've specifically expanded your reasoning behind your first statement..TheBelcorwyn wrote:
This is specifically what I'm talking about. This map may be fun (maybe) for clan scrims/matches, but imo it makes for an awful public server map.
"Iron Gator must be one of the most ill-concieved maps ever created. It's only fun either on 16 player size, or if you're the marines. MEC gets owned. Hard. "
Now I agree with you fully.
http://www.bf2s.com/player/45138265/ <-- add 226 more hours to the 5
When I left FW, Tags were stuck with me, so I created a new account.
When I left FW, Tags were stuck with me, so I created a new account.
im not talking about you.Rayvenwolf wrote:
http://www.bf2s.com/player/45138265/ <-- add 226 more hours to the 5
When I left FW, Tags were stuck with me, so I created a new account.
Well be clear then, because it's my post you quoted.
Two pilots of congruent skill? The Hind always win. The Hind is way faster at gaining altitude and can get better tv shots. And a smart Hind pilot doesn't even look at infantry on the deck if the Apache is in the air anyway.TheBelcorwyn wrote:
In all my experience with SF (which is what I play primarily) and the choppers therein, this statement is absolutely false -- unless the pilot of the Apache is a NOOB. Two pilots of congruent skill in either chopper and my money will always be on the Apache.The_Killer wrote:
A good hind a pilot and a good gunner can easily take the apache down.
The Apache is so easy to fly, my 3 year old brother can do it. Literally.
Belcorwyn
Destroy the essex gun at take off, then fly very high to find the apache.
When the apache is down it's game over on the deck flags.
At that point the seals can keep spawning there and get their purple hearth or just give up on the deck and spawn below. In both cases, the transport chopper has easy access, as the AA gun and the apache are always down.
And at that point there are multiple access to cap some flag below the deck.
Last edited by The_Jester (2007-01-23 15:24:35)
I have two other accounts. Both have time on Iron Gator.The_Killer wrote:
You have less than 5 hours on the map you wouldnt know if it was good or not.
Moreover, I play the map frequently in scrims and matches.
However, it doesn't take 100 hours of play to realize a map isn't very good.
Belcorwyn
well i have almost 500 hours one that map and i still like it...extreamly fun to fight inside the ship:)
Heh, i saw this post and thought to myself, "who is this guy?" (until i remembered your xfire name). Yeah, you and Darth seem to love the map, but i can't figure out why. Honestly, if it were a night map, i think i'd like it a lot more.terrafirma wrote:
I assume you are speaking of me the guy who also forces you to play Devil's Perch
Iron Gator is such a fun map if played correctly. However, if your team is full of idiots it turns into a spawn camping fest like 90% of Ghost Town rounds.
Bel
EDIT* BTW, the reason Ghost Town maps (at least non-IO servers) often turn into spawn camp fests is due in large part to the Apache, and who's flying it. I don't see camp fests as often in IO servers.
Last edited by TheBelcorwyn (2007-01-24 07:36:59)
That's right they turn into one team controlling the main island points while the other side goes sniper and stays on the outer islands. Good infy battles turn into sniper battles after about 3 minutes.TheBelcorwyn wrote:
EDIT* BTW, the reason Ghost Town maps (at least non-IO servers) often turn into spawn camp fests is due in large part to the Apache, and who's flying it. I don't see camp fests as often in IO servers.
Iron Gator is so much fun. If you don't like it you don't know the map!
Much to my chagrin.terrafirma wrote:
Good infy battles turn into sniper battles after about 3 minutes.
In fact, if I'm piloting the Apache, I leave the main island for the other pilot and I patrol for snipers. Nothing I enjoy more than eliminating snipers in whatever fashion I can.
When this happens on IO servers, I break out the paddles. Good fun.
Belcorwyn
i found this the other day just from searching for a good server. it is an incredible server! all you complaining about it being 64 players... the thing never gets above 30ish people (or at least when i've played) so it's perfect. lasts a long time so i can get my G3 on!
Tsk Tsk Tsk........ ADD {AOdW} Shadow_Ownz or some Honcho name like that to the *&%# admin Tk'er list. I was on some 24/7 gator server and he tk'ed me for chopper.
Fine.... I tk him for chopper right back (an eye for an eye for those who make BF2 a farce). It would be a great game if it wasn't for infant brains like him.
Then I got booted LOL.
So remember Shadow ownz can TK you for chopper as admin. You've been there. Servers have been there and not come back. Hope the server dies out, spread the word.
Fine.... I tk him for chopper right back (an eye for an eye for those who make BF2 a farce). It would be a great game if it wasn't for infant brains like him.
Then I got booted LOL.
So remember Shadow ownz can TK you for chopper as admin. You've been there. Servers have been there and not come back. Hope the server dies out, spread the word.
Last edited by JaggedPanther (2007-01-26 16:20:53)
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- New 24/7 Iron Gator 64player!!!!!!