im expecting a fair and balanced reply here cameron... why do they preach hate about us in our own country? they called the british home office the terrorist office, that made me laugh... 9/11? we did nothing to them to start that. then, we invade afganistan, in a response to 9/11 right? fair enough, the people in iraq want us out. but, these people, are so ignorant, they hate anyone but islam right? well, the extremists do right? the thing i have trouble with, is them coming over here and preaching hate about us... and people go mad when i say i have a problem with that? you understand what im sayin right?CameronPoe wrote:
They all featured on a program that was on British TV last night. They're called radical Islamists. They represent in the region of about 0.0001% of the muslim community in England.
They're scary if you listen to them thinking that all muslims think like that. They're laughable when you think about the fact that they are an absolutely miniscule minority of crackpots. The world is not ending. The sky is not falling in. Everybody relax.
I've posted examples of anti terrorism demonstrations involving hundreds of thousands of muslims already in this thread (page 15).ATG wrote:
Everyone says the people in the videos don't represent Islam, so a question, where are the counter demonstrators?
It's also quite a daft argument. Why should muslims actively get out and protest about these things. I'm an atheist, yet if there was a spurt of terrorism from atheists I wouldn't be out demonstrating about it, so why should they. Muslim leaders, journalists etc. condemn terrorist actions in the name of Islam on a regular basis anyway.
They preach hate cos they are cocks with a warped sense of reality. Simple. Its up to the authorities to deal with it. Go ask PC Plod why these fuckers are permitted to continue to talk nonsensical wank all day.James-M-II wrote:
I'm expecting a fair and balanced reply here Cameron... why do they preach hate about us in our own country? they called the British home office the terrorist office, that made me laugh... 9/11? we did nothing to them to start that. then, we invade afghanistan, in a response to 9/11 right? fair enough, the people in Iraq want us out. but, these people, are so ignorant, they hate anyone but Islam right? well, the extremists do right? the thing i have trouble with, is them coming over here and preaching hate about us... and people go mad when i say i have a problem with that? you understand what I'm saying right?CameronPoe wrote:
They all featured on a program that was on British TV last night. They're called radical Islamists. They represent in the region of about 0.0001% of the muslim community in England.
They're scary if you listen to them thinking that all Muslims think like that. They're laughable when you think about the fact that they are an absolutely minuscule minority of crackpots. The world is not ending. The sky is not falling in. Everybody relax.
And anyway 50 years of supporting Israel, had pissed off quite a few nutjobs. And why the hell did you not think they wouldn't attack the greatest monuments of capitalism again?! They failed once, its not like these people are short of perseverance?! Did you really need to be told?!
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
the first dude in the movie, wants to bomb Denmark and take our wife's..
well - I've met several of the danish wife's, and guess what - YOU CAN HAVE THEM!
well - I've met several of the danish wife's, and guess what - YOU CAN HAVE THEM!
well if i was speaking in my normal way id be banned again, ive only just come off a 3 day ban again. im talkin in a decent way for obvious reasons, so cam doesnt flame me again lolm3thod wrote:
They preach hate cos they are cocks with a warped sense of reality. Simple. Its up to the authorities to deal with it. Go ask PC Plod why these fuckers are permitted to continue to talk nonsensical wank all day.James-M-II wrote:
I'm expecting a fair and balanced reply here Cameron... why do they preach hate about us in our own country? they called the British home office the terrorist office, that made me laugh... 9/11? we did nothing to them to start that. then, we invade afghanistan, in a response to 9/11 right? fair enough, the people in Iraq want us out. but, these people, are so ignorant, they hate anyone but Islam right? well, the extremists do right? the thing i have trouble with, is them coming over here and preaching hate about us... and people go mad when i say i have a problem with that? you understand what I'm saying right?CameronPoe wrote:
They all featured on a program that was on British TV last night. They're called radical Islamists. They represent in the region of about 0.0001% of the muslim community in England.
They're scary if you listen to them thinking that all Muslims think like that. They're laughable when you think about the fact that they are an absolutely minuscule minority of crackpots. The world is not ending. The sky is not falling in. Everybody relax.
And anyway 50 years of supporting Israel, had pissed off quite a few nutjobs. And why the hell did you not think they wouldn't attack the greatest monuments of capitalism again?! They failed once, its not like these people are short of perseverance?! Did you really need to be told?!
Why? Because of the warped mentality of those individuals you see in the videos. They're unhinged - nutters.James-M-II wrote:
im expecting a fair and balanced reply here cameron... why do they preach hate about us in our own country? they called the british home office the terrorist office, that made me laugh... 9/11? we did nothing to them to start that. then, we invade afganistan, in a response to 9/11 right? fair enough, the people in iraq want us out. but, these people, are so ignorant, they hate anyone but islam right? well, the extremists do right? the thing i have trouble with, is them coming over here and preaching hate about us... and people go mad when i say i have a problem with that? you understand what im sayin right?
Did nothing to them? That's a little laughable. The UK may have done nothing to personally affect those particular individuals but the UK has done plenty to arabs and muslims in general.
How about:
a) The Crusades.
b) Withdrawing from Palestine to have the Palestinians shafted by the Zionists.
c) Trying to hold on to imperial possessions like the Suez Canal, supporting Israel and France in a war against the Arabs.
d) Invading Iraq on extremely questionable grounds and then not withdrawing when they are clearly not welcome.
e) Supporting unpopular dictators like King Fahd of Saudi Arabia and General Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan because it suits their strategic objectives, irrespective of their human rights records.
f) Regularly abstaining on votes against Israeli human rights violations.
g) Whoring the natural resources of several middle eastern nations through economic imperialism.
h) Mindlessly following the US wherever it feels the need to collectively punish arabs/muslims.
This does not however justify Imams calling for attacks on civilians - that is always morally abhorrent and absolutely wrong and should be punished.
The thing to remember is that these are an extreme minority. They are unhinged and there are laws out there to protect you from them. The acts of these few should not influence your opinion of muslims in general - that would essentially make you racist.
Why do these people go to the UK? Well a lot of them are actually BRITISH. Being British - as far as I can see - does not necessitate nice white skin and a stiff upper lip. The UK pays the price in terms of it's past imperialism - by rampaging across the world they owe a debt to those they subjugated - now the UK is full of Indians, Pakistanis, etc. - who were rightfully entitled to citizenship. They're British now, whether you like it or not.
Adding to CP argument you do realise the result of the British Empire meant I've got mates who Grandad's were in the British Army, and fought for the King in WW2?CameronPoe wrote:
Why? Because of the warped mentality of those individuals you see in the videos. They're unhinged - nutters.James-M-II wrote:
im expecting a fair and balanced reply here cameron... why do they preach hate about us in our own country? they called the british home office the terrorist office, that made me laugh... 9/11? we did nothing to them to start that. then, we invade afganistan, in a response to 9/11 right? fair enough, the people in iraq want us out. but, these people, are so ignorant, they hate anyone but islam right? well, the extremists do right? the thing i have trouble with, is them coming over here and preaching hate about us... and people go mad when i say i have a problem with that? you understand what im sayin right?
Did nothing to them? That's a little laughable. The UK may have done nothing to personally affect those particular individuals but the UK has done plenty to arabs and muslims in general.
How about:
a) The Crusades.
b) Withdrawing from Palestine to have the Palestinians shafted by the Zionists.
c) Trying to hold on to imperial possessions like the Suez Canal, supporting Israel and France in a war against the Arabs.
d) Invading Iraq on extremely questionable grounds and then not withdrawing when they are clearly not welcome.
e) Supporting unpopular dictators like King Fahd of Saudi Arabia and General Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan because it suits their strategic objectives, irrespective of their human rights records.
f) Regularly abstaining on votes against Israeli human rights violations.
g) Whoring the natural resources of several middle eastern nations through economic imperialism.
h) Mindlessly following the US wherever it feels the need to collectively punish arabs/muslims.
This does not however justify Imams calling for attacks on civilians - that is always morally abhorrent and absolutely wrong and should be punished.
The thing to remember is that these are an extreme minority. They are unhinged and there are laws out there to protect you from them. The acts of these few should not influence your opinion of muslims in general - that would essentially make you racist.
Why do these people go to the UK? Well a lot of them are actually BRITISH. Being British - as far as I can see - does not necessitate nice white skin and a stiff upper lip. The UK pays the price in terms of it's past imperialism - by rampaging across the world they owe a debt to those they subjugated - now the UK is full of Indians, Pakistanis, etc. - who were rightfully entitled to citizenship. They're British now, whether you like it or not.
It's bizzare when i met one of them as he spoke with a rar-rar english-indian accent like he just come of the set of aint half hot mum.
You might wanna research indian/pakistani/skih military dudes helping out you crazed fools in Europe.
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
i was always perceived as a racist here, i never got my views over correctly... i do hate the minority who believe everyone should be islam, the crazed nutters who bomb people... theyre the ones i hate, not your ordinary average muslim, i imagine there are some real nice peopleCameronPoe wrote:
Why? Because of the warped mentality of those individuals you see in the videos. They're unhinged - nutters.James-M-II wrote:
im expecting a fair and balanced reply here cameron... why do they preach hate about us in our own country? they called the british home office the terrorist office, that made me laugh... 9/11? we did nothing to them to start that. then, we invade afganistan, in a response to 9/11 right? fair enough, the people in iraq want us out. but, these people, are so ignorant, they hate anyone but islam right? well, the extremists do right? the thing i have trouble with, is them coming over here and preaching hate about us... and people go mad when i say i have a problem with that? you understand what im sayin right?
Did nothing to them? That's a little laughable. The UK may have done nothing to personally affect those particular individuals but the UK has done plenty to arabs and muslims in general.
How about:
a) The Crusades.
b) Withdrawing from Palestine to have the Palestinians shafted by the Zionists.
c) Trying to hold on to imperial possessions like the Suez Canal, supporting Israel and France in a war against the Arabs.
d) Invading Iraq on extremely questionable grounds and then not withdrawing when they are clearly not welcome.
e) Supporting unpopular dictators like King Fahd of Saudi Arabia and General Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan because it suits their strategic objectives, irrespective of their human rights records.
f) Regularly abstaining on votes against Israeli human rights violations.
g) Whoring the natural resources of several middle eastern nations through economic imperialism.
h) Mindlessly following the US wherever it feels the need to collectively punish arabs/muslims.
This does not however justify Imams calling for attacks on civilians - that is always morally abhorrent and absolutely wrong and should be punished.
The thing to remember is that these are an extreme minority. They are unhinged and there are laws out there to protect you from them. The acts of these few should not influence your opinion of muslims in general - that would essentially make you racist.
Why do these people go to the UK? Well a lot of them are actually BRITISH. Being British - as far as I can see - does not necessitate nice white skin and a stiff upper lip. The UK pays the price in terms of it's past imperialism - by rampaging across the world they owe a debt to those they subjugated - now the UK is full of Indians, Pakistanis, etc. - who were rightfully entitled to citizenship. They're British now, whether you like it or not.
It's like they do here, some numbnuts religious group protests soldiers funerals, or at an abortion clinic, and the oppossing side makes sure and shows up to let the public see that not all Christians are nuts.Bertster7 wrote:
I've posted examples of anti terrorism demonstrations involving hundreds of thousands of muslims already in this thread (page 15).ATG wrote:
Everyone says the people in the videos don't represent Islam, so a question, where are the counter demonstrators?
It's also quite a daft argument. Why should muslims actively get out and protest about these things. I'm an atheist, yet if there was a spurt of terrorism from atheists I wouldn't be out demonstrating about it, so why should they. Muslim leaders, journalists etc. condemn terrorist actions in the name of Islam on a regular basis anyway.
I'm not saying there aren't any oppossing viewpoints in Islam, I'm simply saying
A) they ain't near vocal enough and
B) England and much of Europe is in serious denial.
And after 18 pages of discussion it is obvious that the main threat to Europe is their assumption that people are good, and generally do the right thing.
Last edited by ATG (2007-01-22 14:27:23)
Essentially: we should be generalising more based on the media implanting a largely unfounded generalised fear in our minds about all adherents of a particular religion. Didn't some angry little Austrian do something like that in the 1930s?ATG wrote:
And after 18 pages of discussion it is obvious that the main threat to Europe is their assumption that people are good, and generally do the right thing.
Should we be scared of black people because shows like 'Cops' generally only shows footage of black people getting caught for petty crime?
Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-01-22 14:56:11)
Ultimately the Islamic population of the UK commit less crime per person than the average. Surely that means they're less of a threat. I expect the same is true in the US and in Europe.ATG wrote:
It's like they do here, some numbnuts religious group protests soldiers funerals, or at an abortion clinic, and the oppossing side makes sure and shows up to let the public see that not all Christians are nuts.Bertster7 wrote:
I've posted examples of anti terrorism demonstrations involving hundreds of thousands of muslims already in this thread (page 15).ATG wrote:
Everyone says the people in the videos don't represent Islam, so a question, where are the counter demonstrators?
It's also quite a daft argument. Why should muslims actively get out and protest about these things. I'm an atheist, yet if there was a spurt of terrorism from atheists I wouldn't be out demonstrating about it, so why should they. Muslim leaders, journalists etc. condemn terrorist actions in the name of Islam on a regular basis anyway.
I'm not saying there aren't any oppossing viewpoints in Islam, I'm simply saying
A) they ain't near vocal enough and
B) England and much of Europe is in serious denial.
And after 18 pages of discussion it is obvious that the main threat to Europe is their assumption that people are good, and generally do the right thing.
A lot of it is down to media exposure. The media are far more eager to report stories about terrorists than having someone denouce terrorism. It is rare to see a senior Islamic figure speaking who does not condemn the actions of terrorists. They do it pretty much every chance they get.
I'd say that after 18 pages of discussion it is obvious that paranoia in the US is threatening civil liberties, personal freedom and degrading the quality of life over there. That change in lifestyle is the terrorists winning. You ignore them and carry on with your day to day life in exactly the same way without the slightest worry about terrorists and they lose. I have faith that the security services will prevent me from getting killed by terrorists and I know that I am about 100x more likely to get hit by a car than be a victim of terrorism, so I don't worry about it. The damage caused by fear of terrorism is much greater than the actual damage caused (9/11 is an exception to this).
Last edited by Bertster7 (2007-01-22 15:36:58)
Black on White crimes far outweigh any other hate crime in America. Does this mean we have Afican American problem in the United States?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Yup. You'd better bring in legislation so they can't congregate in the same places, go to the same schools or ride the same buses......Kmarion wrote:
Black on White crimes far outweigh any other hate crime in America. Does this mean we have Afican American problem in the United States?
..... oh wait.......
.... maybe that won't work and will just create more tension and make everyones way of life worse.
Sound familiar?
Europe is in DENIAL. . . what else more is their to say. . .
Until they (Europeans) get attacked in a more severe way (not too say the bombings in London or in Spain weren't severe) they flat out won't/don't care. . .they wont change.
my quotes from Mr. Robert Frost and President Reagan (see sig) sum up Europe and the Democrat party. . .and their willingness and fortitude to stand up for something/anything.
Until they (Europeans) get attacked in a more severe way (not too say the bombings in London or in Spain weren't severe) they flat out won't/don't care. . .they wont change.
my quotes from Mr. Robert Frost and President Reagan (see sig) sum up Europe and the Democrat party. . .and their willingness and fortitude to stand up for something/anything.
If you think that'll change European attitudes towards terrorism you are mistaken. We have more sense than to get worked up into a paranoid frenzy over something as statistically improbable as being killed by terrorists.fadedsteve wrote:
Until they (Europeans) get attacked in a more severe way (not too say the bombings in London or in Spain weren't severe) they flat out won't/don't care. . .they wont change.
I am going to guess here as i dont have time to hunt for figuresKmarion wrote:
Black on White crimes far outweigh any other hate crime in America. Does this mean we have Afican American problem in the United States?
I bet there are more African Americans incarcerated that any other ethnic group
I bet more African Americans are unemployed that any other ethnic group
I bet more African Americans live below the povery line than any other ethnic group
I bet more African Americans are under performers in education that any other ethnic group
I bet African Americans have a lower life expectancy than any other ethnic group
etc etc etc
right or wrong?
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
Europe is more resilient to scare mongering. And you've done enough damage to the extremists to last a life time.fadedsteve wrote:
Europe is in DENIAL. . . what else more is their to say. . .
Until they (Europeans) get attacked in a more severe way (not too say the bombings in London or in Spain weren't severe) they flat out won't/don't care. . .they wont change.
my quotes from Mr. Robert Frost and President Reagan (see sig) sum up Europe and the Democrat party. . .and their willingness and fortitude to stand up for something/anything.
Last edited by m3thod (2007-01-22 15:53:26)
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
great quotes.... Ronald Reagan was awesome...
Love is the answer
Oh well then hell, why bother prosecuting criminals? More people die in car accidents than get murdered.......Great thought process ya got there??B.Schuss wrote:
Quite right. For example, I bet my ass more people have died last year alone, in car accidents, or shootings, or through passive smoking-related illnesses, than have been killed by violent muslim fanatics.Bubbalo wrote:
They also have problems with crime, employment, literacy and a slew of other things. In fact, the problems of any country are innumerable. The question is whether any one problem outweighs others.ATG wrote:
Not all Muslims are bad, but to deny England, and indeed all of Europe have a Muslim problem is to deny the obvious.
Yet, people still drive cars, smoke cigarettes and buy firearms.
Pretty stupid analogy and that is all I am going to say about it.UON wrote:
In other words, a vigilante lynch mob...lowing wrote:
I don't have to "squirm and wriggle", I never said the resolutions gave permittion for the US to do anything. I said the UN recognized Iraq as a threat ( WHICH IT DID, or dispute it) and that the US grew tired of the UN to act on its threats and in the name of our own national security acted themselves.UON wrote:
The coalition were essentially a vigilante lynch mob, and like all lynch mobs it ended up with someone being put in front of a kangaroo court then strung up.
And they are combating all those other problems, are they not? Why ignore the Muslim issues?Bubbalo wrote:
They also have problems with crime, employment, literacy and a slew of other things. In fact, the problems of any country are innumerable. The question is whether any one problem outweighs others.ATG wrote:
Not all Muslims are bad, but to deny England, and indeed all of Europe have a Muslim problem is to deny the obvious.
The US is not a private citizen or subject to the whims of the UN. It was a national security issue and they acted on it.UON wrote:
Blehm98 wrote:
dude... that is completely stupid
the US acted on what we believed could be a threat to National security, and did so because the UN was not doing anything besides bicker and moanYou've restated the definition of vigilante, then said I was stupid to describe the coalition actions as vigilante. Great own goal.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigilante wrote:
In modern Western society, the term is frequently applied to those citizens who "take the law into their own hands," meting out "frontier justice" when they perceive that the actions of established authorities are insufficient.It's a closely related subject. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, … 92,00.htmlTy wrote:
Get this thread back on topic or it will be closed. It is not about the invasion of Iraq.
Racoons were a greater threat to national security than Iraq circa 2003.lowing wrote:
The US is not a private citizen or subject to the whims of the UN. It was a national security issue and they acted on it.UON wrote:
Blehm98 wrote:
dude... that is completely stupid
the US acted on what we believed could be a threat to National security, and did so because the UN was not doing anything besides bicker and moanYou've restated the definition of vigilante, then said I was stupid to describe the coalition actions as vigilante. Great own goal.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigilante wrote:
In modern Western society, the term is frequently applied to those citizens who "take the law into their own hands," meting out "frontier justice" when they perceive that the actions of established authorities are insufficient.It's a closely related subject. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, … 92,00.htmlTy wrote:
Get this thread back on topic or it will be closed. It is not about the invasion of Iraq.
Last edited by m3thod (2007-01-22 16:54:27)
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
Really, I can show papers that the WORLD deemed Iraq a threat. How 'bout you?? It was also forcing compliance that brought the cease fire.m3thod wrote:
Racoons were a greater national security than Iraq circa 2003.lowing wrote:
The US is not a private citizen or subject to the whims of the UN. It was a national security issue and they acted on it.UON wrote:
Blehm98 wrote:
dude... that is completely stupid
the US acted on what we believed could be a threat to National security, and did so because the UN was not doing anything besides bicker and moanYou've restated the definition of vigilante, then said I was stupid to describe the coalition actions as vigilante. Great own goal.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigilante wrote:
In modern Western society, the term is frequently applied to those citizens who "take the law into their own hands," meting out "frontier justice" when they perceive that the actions of established authorities are insufficient.
It's a closely related subject. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, … 92,00.html
How, exactly was it a national security issue?lowing wrote:
The US is not a private citizen or subject to the whims of the UN. It was a national security issue and they acted on it.UON wrote:
Blehm98 wrote:
dude... that is completely stupid
the US acted on what we believed could be a threat to National security, and did so because the UN was not doing anything besides bicker and moanYou've restated the definition of vigilante, then said I was stupid to describe the coalition actions as vigilante. Great own goal.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigilante wrote:
In modern Western society, the term is frequently applied to those citizens who "take the law into their own hands," meting out "frontier justice" when they perceive that the actions of established authorities are insufficient.It's a closely related subject. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, … 92,00.htmlTy wrote:
Get this thread back on topic or it will be closed. It is not about the invasion of Iraq.
What were they going to do?
It was illegal under international law. The same international law that meant it was illegal when Saddam invaded Kuwait.