Why didn't they report it again? I would like more information on the clerical error.
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I understand why, but it does seem to be selective IMO. I do have a question though, because the US has always been like this until recently. For other countries are the borders closed? I understand certain countries, but like in Europe - isn't it kind of the same as the US? An open border and illegal workers? Or are the laws different and therefore our definition of an illegal worker is different?CameronPoe wrote:
Can someone explain to me why the US government doesn't care about the porous southern border? Because it really puzzles me.
At least you got it. +1 for brains also.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
Well, you basically have two sides, and usmarine2007 covered them both. The conservatives tend to support big money and big business.CameronPoe wrote:
Why didn't the conservatives do something about it when they were in power for the last 12 years?usmarine2007 wrote:
Liberals and big business money.
European border security is maintained a lot better than that of the US but there's a reason why we may be more successful than you guys: the law actively tracks down employers of illegal immigrants, the law deals with said criminals appropriately, the law sends said immigrants home on the next available plane when caught. We also monitor our borders more effectively (but then that's easier to do because Europe is smaller and more densely and comprehensively populated). It's that simple. When they get caught, usually in the back of some freight lorry, they get put in dismal slum accommodation, their asylum credentials are checked and then they're dispatched on the next flight home to wherever the fuck they came from - not exactly a bed or roses for them, making it less of an incentive to bother.Pug wrote:
I understand why, but it does seem to be selective IMO. I do have a question though, because the US has always been like this until recently. For other countries are the borders closed? I understand certain countries, but like in Europe - isn't it kind of the same as the US? An open border and illegal workers? Or are the laws different and therefore our definition of an illegal worker is different?CameronPoe wrote:
Can someone explain to me why the US government doesn't care about the porous southern border? Because it really puzzles me.
But yes some still do. Those in western Africa try and raft it to Spain, but let's face it: Sierra Leone and Liberia are no picnics. They are just desparate. Them making it across to the Canaries does not mean they can be gainfully employed though. They sit there barely surviving while asylum applications are processed. I think the US system of social security numbers could be partly to blame for the woes in the states. It seems to be easy to get one and it seems that there is no law enforcement when it comes to catching and reprimanding those that employ illegal immigrants. There is just zero pro-activity when it comes to illegal immigration in the US as far as I can see. Do you know why I think they turn a blind eye? Because America is built on capitalism and enterprise and the system will reward someone who'll run a business with illegal immigrants because by running his own business he's following 'the American Dream'.
those guys are put in a very tough position, but they should have reported the shooting...
I don't know WHERE i stand on this... great topic.
I don't know WHERE i stand on this... great topic.
The thing that I find the strangest in this report that this is not the first time that someone who did not have rights as a citizen in the US got the court to hold their case.
A few years ago, there was an illegal that came on a man's farm. The man said that if the illegal came back he was going to take action to make for sure the illegal did not come back on his property. The illegal came back, and the man who owned the farm, shoot him. The illegal takes that man to court, and sues that man for his 60 acre farm. The judge gives the land to the illegal, then tells the illegal he has to give it to charity, and that he can not apply to be a US citizen since he was in part of a violent crime.
From what I understand, if you are not a US citizen, then you do not have the same rights as we do. This means that you do not have access to the court system that our taxes pay for, yet there are at least two cases where this occurs.
I could go on and on about how if you are an illegal in the US, you have more or better rights that a US citizen.
Edit: To the person that state that illegals take jobs that nobody else will take, that is not true. Where I live they are more and more moving into fast food, and other jobs that do not require a very complex understanding of English, or very little skill. I know that some of the fast food places here you have to know Spanish just to get your order correct, or you will be repeating yourself all day. Also, one of the largest Wal-Marts in my town has a lot of illegals working for them. It is Wal-Mart's cleaning crews, if you go into that Wal-Mart at night, you should know Spanish. If you have to ask any questions, it is hard to find someone who speaks English enough for you to understand.
Also, to everyone that is supporting the Border Patrol Agents, one way we can make it harder for illegals to get jobs is to start boycotting the companies that either employ them, or use contractors that employ them. I have been boycotting Wal-Mart because of this. In 2005, and 2003, Wal-Mart was found to have illegals working for them. Wal-Mart both times, stated that the illegals were part of a contracting company, and they did not know about them. I personally see this as an excuse, and a way to avoid the blame.
A few years ago, there was an illegal that came on a man's farm. The man said that if the illegal came back he was going to take action to make for sure the illegal did not come back on his property. The illegal came back, and the man who owned the farm, shoot him. The illegal takes that man to court, and sues that man for his 60 acre farm. The judge gives the land to the illegal, then tells the illegal he has to give it to charity, and that he can not apply to be a US citizen since he was in part of a violent crime.
From what I understand, if you are not a US citizen, then you do not have the same rights as we do. This means that you do not have access to the court system that our taxes pay for, yet there are at least two cases where this occurs.
I could go on and on about how if you are an illegal in the US, you have more or better rights that a US citizen.
Edit: To the person that state that illegals take jobs that nobody else will take, that is not true. Where I live they are more and more moving into fast food, and other jobs that do not require a very complex understanding of English, or very little skill. I know that some of the fast food places here you have to know Spanish just to get your order correct, or you will be repeating yourself all day. Also, one of the largest Wal-Marts in my town has a lot of illegals working for them. It is Wal-Mart's cleaning crews, if you go into that Wal-Mart at night, you should know Spanish. If you have to ask any questions, it is hard to find someone who speaks English enough for you to understand.
Also, to everyone that is supporting the Border Patrol Agents, one way we can make it harder for illegals to get jobs is to start boycotting the companies that either employ them, or use contractors that employ them. I have been boycotting Wal-Mart because of this. In 2005, and 2003, Wal-Mart was found to have illegals working for them. Wal-Mart both times, stated that the illegals were part of a contracting company, and they did not know about them. I personally see this as an excuse, and a way to avoid the blame.
Last edited by dubbs (2007-01-18 17:39:48)
I missed the part in the middle. Just kidding.CameronPoe wrote:
Europe is ....
...following 'the American Dream'.
Thanks for the response...makes sense.
I'm pretty sure they shot him in the ass.Sorcerer0513 wrote:
You are wrong. He was wounded.IRONCHEF wrote:
Uh, the idiots in jail today starting their term MURDERED someone..and didn't report it. Am i wrong?
Article on it here. First thing I found on google so I cannot be sure of it's bias. If you have more reputable source, please post it.
Because it nets them tax dollars without tipping the voting scales. And in the long run, those workers are healthy for our economy, though they'd be better if they were legal.CameronPoe wrote:
Can someone explain to me why the US government doesn't care about the porous southern border? Because it really puzzles me.
Are there any nations connected by borders in Europe with a drastic difference in the quality of the economies? Let's be honest that is the major reason behind most border crossings (Mexican/US)?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Yes, because the Liberals have controlled the country for the past 8 years.....................oh, wait.....................usmarine2007 wrote:
Liberals and big business money.CameronPoe wrote:
Can someone explain to me why the US government doesn't care about the porous southern border? Because it really puzzles me.
What you seem to miss, ATG, is that they aren't being jailed for shooting him, but for failing to report it. If they'd had the courage to admit it to and fill out some paper, they could have avoided all this.
Yes.iNeedUrFace4Soup wrote:
The president is a liberal?usmarine2007 wrote:
Liberals and big business money.CameronPoe wrote:
Can someone explain to me why the US government doesn't care about the porous southern border? Because it really puzzles me.
The drug dealer was wounded in the butt after attacking an agent and then he ran away.IRONCHEF wrote:
Uh, the idiots in jail today starting their term MURDERED someone..and didn't report it. Am i wrong?
Is the message that the border now has an achilles heal in the form of more careful border patrol agents worse than the message to cops that they can get away with murder...and not reporting it?
Someone please clear this up for me before I jump on this bandwagon of support.
He was arrested a couple of weeks later bringing more drugs into the US... he received immunity for testifying against the border agents... the agents didnt report the incident and that is wrong... But 10 years in jail is ridiculous for what they did... absolutely ridiculous...
"When Border Patrol Agent Ignacio Ramos pulled the trigger last February, all he knew was that his partner was lying on the ground behind him – bloodied from a struggle with a fleeing suspect – shots had been fired and now, it appeared, the drug smuggler he was pursuing had turned toward him with what looked to be a gun in his hand.
In the split-second he had to respond, Ramos determined the course of his and his partner's lives – federal prison for the next 20 years for assault with serious bodily injury, assault with a deadly weapon, discharging of a firearm in relation to a crime of violence, violating civil rights and obstruction of justice. "
Last edited by [TUF]Catbox (2007-01-18 20:07:13)
Love is the answer
I know.Bubbalo wrote:
Yes, because the Liberals have controlled the country for the past 8 years.....................oh, wait.....................usmarine2007 wrote:
Liberals and big business money.CameronPoe wrote:
Can someone explain to me why the US government doesn't care about the porous southern border? Because it really puzzles me.
What you seem to miss, ATG, is that they aren't being jailed for shooting him, but for failing to report it. If they'd had the courage to admit it to and fill out some paper, they could have avoided all this.
In fact, the fault really is with the officers. They did violate policy.
The DA should never have brought them up on charges. But when it was brought, and they were found guilty, the had minimum sentencing guidelines. I don't approve of political scapegoats, or anything that would dissuade them from doing their jobs.
The challenge is to Bush to issue a full and immediate pardon.
FFS the guy was running and he had 750 lbs. of dope in his truck, they thought he had a gun.
'
I'm sorry they missed.
Am I right to assume this.
Stop illegal immigration, hire Americans, wages up, costs up, businesses bust, USA economy bust?
is that what the whole debate is about?
Stop illegal immigration, hire Americans, wages up, costs up, businesses bust, USA economy bust?
is that what the whole debate is about?
I'm sorry? They did the wrong thing but shouldn't be charged?ATG wrote:
In fact, the fault really is with the officers. They did violate policy.
The DA should never have brought them up on charges.
He's and American politician, and he's Republican, HTF do you figure he's liberal?ATG wrote:
Yes.iNeedUrFace4Soup wrote:
The president is a liberal?usmarine2007 wrote:
Liberals and big business money.
There's a term for people like Bush. We call them Rino ( Rhino spelling )Bubbalo wrote:
He's and American politician, and he's Republican, HTF do you figure he's liberal?ATG wrote:
Yes.iNeedUrFace4Soup wrote:
The president is a liberal?
means republican in name only.
He has out-spent the most liberal fiscal fantasies.
Thats right.Bubbalo wrote:
I'm sorry? They did the wrong thing but shouldn't be charged?ATG wrote:
In fact, the fault really is with the officers. They did violate policy.
The DA should never have brought them up on charges.
11 years in prison for this? Now if it was an American citizen they had shot, I'd be wanted their blood.
Fired maybe. Prison? Hell no.
No its not what this debate is about... The economy is and will be fine.... thanks for your 2 cents... your theory is brilliant though... lolBN wrote:
Am I right to assume this.
Stop illegal immigration, hire Americans, wages up, costs up, businesses bust, USA economy bust?
is that what the whole debate is about?
Love is the answer
Bush is SO far from liberal, ATG... He is a NeoCon to the max. Democrats aren't even liberal these days.
i agree. first few segments of the clip and i turned it off in disgust.IRONCHEF wrote:
Uh, the idiots in jail today starting their term MURDERED someone..and didn't report it. Am i wrong?
Is the message that the border now has an achilles heal in the form of more careful border patrol agents worse than the message to cops that they can get away with murder...and not reporting it?
Someone please clear this up for me before I jump on this bandwagon of support.
these numbskulls didnt report a crime of a serious magnitude..they deserve godamn jail time, nuff said
although 12 years is a bit stiff
Thats just fucking retarded.
"At trial, Assistant U.S. Attorney Debra Kanof told the court that the agents had violated an unarmed Aldrete-Davila's civil rights.Sorcerer0513 wrote:
You are wrong. He was wounded.IRONCHEF wrote:
Uh, the idiots in jail today starting their term MURDERED someone..and didn't report it. Am i wrong?
Article on it here. First thing I found on google so I cannot be sure of it's bias. If you have more reputable source, please post it.
"The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled it is a violation of someone's Fourth Amendment rights to shoot them in the back while fleeing if you don't know who they are and/or if you don't know they have a weapon," said Kanof.
Kanof dismissed Ramos' testimony that he had seen something shiny in the smuggler's hand, saying that the agent couldn't be sure it was a gun he had seen.
Further, Kanof argued, it was a violation of Border Patrol policy for agents to pursue fleeing suspects.
"Agents are not allowed to pursue. In order to exceed the speed limit, you have to get supervisor approval, and they did not," she told the Daily Bulletin. "
OMG.
Did she not asked herself why the officer got wounded in the first place, so the suspect must have been carrying a gun?
The rule about not breaking the speed limit is really good. LMAO.
It all depends on the definition of Europe.Kmarion wrote:
Are there any nations connected by borders in Europe with a drastic difference in the quality of the economies? Let's be honest that is the major reason behind most border crossings (Mexican/US)?
Before '89 Europe as part of NATO was very well secured from nations where the economy wasn't doing very well, because these nations were situated in eastern Europe.
Since '90 it became much easier for people from eastern Europe (Poland etc.) to travel to West Europe as a tourist while they in fact worked here as illegal aliens. When they were apprehended they were sent back to their home countries and the employer got sued. But as these countries were struggling hard to become members of the European Union, they opened their borders for investors, thus improving employment and quality of life.
At this moment a number of countries are full members of the European Union so there is free movement of labor which means that their citizens can come over to Western European countries and find a job as independent contractor (there are still some regulations to find a job as an employee in most countries but in time these regulations will cease).
The EU is spending a lot of money in order to boost the economy of the newest members (Bulgaria and Romania) in order to speed things up for them, and to prevent that the most skilled people leave their country. It is a same way the EU handled all new members in the past (e.g. Spain long ago) ad IMO it is the best way to prevent a social catastrophe.
As CamaronPoe already mentioned, in most EU countries you were not allowed to work as illegal alien, so we did not have the problems as the US is facing at the moment.
What you seem to miss, along with most people here, is that this problem has been around for a long time. Believe it or not, there were actually Presidents and Congress before the year 2001.Bubbalo wrote:
Yes, because the Liberals have controlled the country for the past 8 years.....................oh, wait.....................usmarine2007 wrote:
Liberals and big business money.CameronPoe wrote:
Can someone explain to me why the US government doesn't care about the porous southern border? Because it really puzzles me.
What you seem to miss, ATG, is that they aren't being jailed for shooting him, but for failing to report it. If they'd had the courage to admit it to and fill out some paper, they could have avoided all this.
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