ATG
Banned
+5,233|6955|Global Command
By Ted Sampley <http://www.usvetdsp.com/sampbio.htm>;
U.S. Veteran Dispatch
January 2007


Democrat Keith Ellison is now officially the first Muslim United States
congressman. True to his pledge, he placed his hand on the Quran, the
Muslim book of jihad and pledged his allegiance to the United States
during his ceremonial swearing-in.

Capitol Hill staff said Ellison's swearing-in photo opportunity drew
more media than they had ever seen in the history of the U.S. House.
Ellison represents the 5th Congressional District of Minnesota.

The Quran Ellison used was no ordinary book. It once belonged to Thomas
Jefferson, third president of the United States and one of America's
founding fathers. Ellison borrowed it from the Rare Book Section of the
Library of Congress. It was one of the 6,500 Jefferson books archived
in the library.

Ellison, who was born in Detroit and converted to Islam while in
college, said he chose to use Jefferson's Quran because it showed
that "a visionary like Jefferson" believed that wisdom could be
gleaned from many sources.

There is no doubt Ellison was right about Jefferson believing wisdom
could be "gleaned" from the Muslim Quran. At the time Jefferson owned
the book, he needed to know everything possible about Muslims because
he was about to advocate war against the Islamic "Barbary" states of
Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and Tripoli.

Ellison's use of Jefferson's Quran as a prop illuminates a subject once
well-known in the history of the United States, but, which today, is
mostly forgotten - the Muslim pirate slavers who over many centuries
enslaved millions of Africans and tens of thousands of Christian
Europeans and Americans in the Islamic "Barbary" states.

Over the course of 10 centuries, Muslim pirates cruised the African and
Mediterranean coastline, pillaging villages and seizing slaves.

The taking of slaves in pre-dawn raids on unsuspecting coastal
villages had a high casualty rate. It was typical of Muslim raiders to
kill off as many of the "non-Muslim" older men and women as possible
so the preferred "booty" of only young women and children could be
collected.

Young non-Muslim women were targeted because of their value as
concubines in Islamic markets. Islamic law provides for the sexual
interests of Muslim men by allowing them to take as many as four wives
at one time and to have as many concubines as their fortunes allow.

Boys, as young as 9 or 10 years old, were often mutilated to create
eunuchs who would bring higher prices in the slave markets of the
Middle East. Muslim slave traders created "eunuch stations" along
major African slave routes so the necessary surgery could be
performed. It was estimated that only a small number of the boys
subjected to the mutilation survived after the surgery.

When American colonists rebelled against British rule in 1776, American
merchant ships lost Royal Navy protection. With no American Navy for
protection, American ships were attacked and their Christian crews
enslaved by Muslim pirates operating under the control of the "Dey of
Algiers"--an Islamist warlord ruling Algeria.

Because American commerce in the Mediterranean was being destroyed by
the pirates, the Continental Congress agreed in 1784 to negotiate
treaties with the four Barbary States. Congress appointed a special
commission consisting of John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and Benjamin
Franklin, to oversee the negotiations.

Lacking the ability to protect its merchant ships in the
Mediterranean, the new America government tried to appease the Muslim
slavers by agreeing to pay tribute and ransoms in order to retrieve
seized American ships and buy the freedom of enslaved sailors.

Adams argued in favor of paying tribute as the cheapest way to get
American commerce in the Mediterranean moving again. Jefferson was
opposed. He believed there would be no end to the demands for tribute
and wanted matters settled "through the medium of war." He proposed a
league of trading nations to force an end to Muslim piracy.

In 1786, Jefferson, then the American ambassador to France, and Adams,
then the American ambassador to Britain, met in London with Sidi Haji
Abdul Rahman Adja, the "Dey of Algiers" ambassador to Britain.

The Americans wanted to negotiate a peace treaty based on Congress'
vote to appease.

During the meeting Jefferson and Adams asked the Dey's ambassador why
Muslims held so much hostility towards America, a nation with which
they had no previous contacts.

In a later meeting with the American Congress, the two future
presidents reported that Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja had
answered that Islam "was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it
was written in their Quran, that all nations who should not have
acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and
duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make
slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman
(Muslim) who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise."

For the following 15 years, the American government paid the Muslims
millions of dollars for the safe passage of American ships or the
return of American hostages. The payments in ransom and tribute
amounted to 20 percent of United States government annual revenues in
1800.

Not long after Jefferson's inauguration as president in 1801, he
dispatched a group of frigates to defend American interests in the
Mediterranean, and informed Congress.

Declaring that America was going to spend "millions for defense but
not one cent for tribute," Jefferson pressed the issue by deploying
American Marines and many of America's best warships to the Muslim
Barbary Coast.

The USS Constitution, USS Constellation, USS Philadelphia, USS
Chesapeake, USS Argus, USS Syren and USS Intrepid all saw action.

In 1805, American Marines marched across the dessert from Egypt into
Tripolitania, forcing the surrender of Tripoli and the freeing of all
American slaves.

During the Jefferson administration, the Muslim Barbary States,
crumbling as a result of intense American naval bombardment and on
shore raids by Marines, finally officially agreed to abandon slavery
and piracy.

Jefferson's victory over the Muslims lives on today in the Marine
Hymn, with the line, "From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of
Tripoli, we will fight our country's battles on the land as on the
sea."

It wasn't until 1815 that the problem was fully settled by the total
defeat of all the Muslim slave trading pirates.

Jefferson had been right. The "medium of war" was the only way to put
and end to the Muslim problem. Mr. Ellison was right about Jefferson.
He was a "visionary" wise enough to read and learn about the enemy
from their own Muslim book of jihad.
__________________
frankyman_88
I <3 J.C.
+29|6981|QLD, australia

ATG wrote:

In 1805, American Marines marched across the dessert from Egypt into
Tripolitania, forcing the surrender of Tripoli and the freeing of all
American slaves.
You know what, i've never eaten or even seen a dessert big enough for an army to march across, where is the said dessert situated
Very nice thread though, had me captivated.

Last edited by frankyman_88 (2007-01-16 21:54:05)

Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|7162|Salt Lake City

I call on all non-religious persons, and person of faith not of the Christian God or Mulsim Allah, to kill all believers wherever they may find them.  Spare none of them.  Burn their homes and churches.  Destroy their writings, art, and false idols of hatred.  Then, and only then, will the human species have a chance for survival.

Wow, I guess war really is cool!
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6987
The Quran is not a "book of jihad".
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7027|132 and Bush

A308 : Jihad could be a simple action, such as standing firm in defense of the cause of Islam. This may require speaking out in public, against ignoring Islamic principles, and writing articles or publishing books. It may also take the form of reminding people of their Islamic duties and motivating them to conduct their lives according to Islam. Its top and most noble form is to fight the enemies of Islam in battle in order to foil their attempts to smother the call of Islam.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
vedds
Member
+52|7180|Christchurch New Zealand

Bubbalo wrote:

The Quran is not a "book of jihad".
Have you ever had a read of the koran?

Suggest you do........
Korpen
Member
+6|6846
Meh, the Quron/Koran isn't more of a jihad book than the Bible both if miss-used or misinterpreted can be used to spread war/conflict or further certain ideals. Plus, almost every country/religion/etc has committed atrocities and done wrongs so unless you feel like criticizing everyone it seems rather pointless. Plus, if anything it makes more sense for him to swear in on the book he deems holy or believes. Every religion/country has been used/abused to further negative ideals or used to justify atrocious actions...Some idiots will always find an excuse to kill someone else or conquer someone else through religion or other ideals/beliefs...

Last edited by Korpen (2007-01-17 00:30:18)

Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6987

vedds wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

The Quran is not a "book of jihad".
Have you ever had a read of the koran?

Suggest you do........
Nope, but I do know that if it were a book of Jihad, my Muslim friends would already be Jihading.
Janysc
Member
+59|7109|Norway

Bubbalo wrote:

vedds wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

The Quran is not a "book of jihad".
Have you ever had a read of the koran?

Suggest you do........
Nope, but I do know that if it were a book of Jihad, my Muslim friends would already be Jihading.
Can I say QFT?

Have you guys ever read the Bible? I could count the times it orders the murder of infidels on my hand if I had a dozen or two. Have you ever seen a Christian live by this? A Jew? No? Thought so; only the military, or the extremists.

I work with a Muslim, he's the most peaceful guy I know. Fuck your generalisations.
vedds
Member
+52|7180|Christchurch New Zealand

Bubbalo wrote:

Nope, but I do know that if it were a book of Jihad, my Muslim friends would already be Jihading.
Now if you had read it, you would know that "jihad" is not simply blowing up a busload of nuns(or US soldiers whatever) for allah. but a rather broader concept. There is jihad, seen as a community obligation; where if some are taking part others are excused & jihad where muslim lands are threatened seen as an individual obligation. One can be engaged in jihad merely by supporting an "active" jihad. so perhaps your muslim friends are "jihading" and you are simply unaware?

In any case I suggest you lose the ignorance before you post again.

Last edited by vedds (2007-01-17 01:55:22)

vedds
Member
+52|7180|Christchurch New Zealand

Janysc wrote:

Can I say QFT?

Have you guys ever read the Bible? I could count the times it orders the murder of infidels on my hand if I had a dozen or two. Have you ever seen a Christian live by this? A Jew? No? Thought so; only the military, or the extremists.

I work with a Muslim, he's the most peaceful guy I know. Fuck your generalisations.
You see the Bible and the koran have very different messages. I dont have time to elaborate now but I promise you some comparisons tomorrow when I have more time.

one point I will make is: Name  a bible verse where jesus kills or even advocates the killing of a non christian?

My argument is not with an individual, but with the nature of the tome itself, which originates simply in the way that mohammed lived and spread his religeon.

You are basing your view of this document from one mans demeanor? Fuck your extrapolation
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,072|7197|PNW

Korpen wrote:

Meh, the Quron/Koran isn't more of a jihad book than the Bible both if miss-used or misinterpreted can be used to spread war/conflict or further certain ideals. Plus, almost every country/religion/etc has committed atrocities and done wrongs so unless you feel like criticizing everyone it seems rather pointless. Plus, if anything it makes more sense for him to swear in on the book he deems holy or believes. Every religion/country has been used/abused to further negative ideals or used to justify atrocious actions...Some idiots will always find an excuse to kill someone else or conquer someone else through religion or other ideals/beliefs...
I'm less interested in the "has been" and am more interested in the "is."
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6987

vedds wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

Nope, but I do know that if it were a book of Jihad, my Muslim friends would already be Jihading.
Now if you had read it, you would know that "jihad" is not simply blowing up a busload of nuns(or US soldiers whatever) for allah. but a rather broader concept. There is jihad, seen as a community obligation; where if some are taking part others are excused & jihad where muslim lands are threatened seen as an individual obligation. One can be engaged in jihad merely by supporting an "active" jihad. so perhaps your muslim friends are "jihading" and you are simply unaware?

In any case I suggest you lose the ignorance before you post again.
Oh, right, so all my Muslims friends must be closet terrorist sympthisers?

What language did you read the Koran in?  What edition?
JahManRed
wank
+646|7054|IRELAND

Another Muslim bashing thread dressed up with Tomas Jefferson and American colonial nationalism. Getting tiring now.
Pernicious544
Zee Tank Skank
+80|7126|MoVal So-Cal

Bubbalo wrote:

vedds wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

Nope, but I do know that if it were a book of Jihad, my Muslim friends would already be Jihading.
Now if you had read it, you would know that "jihad" is not simply blowing up a busload of nuns(or US soldiers whatever) for allah. but a rather broader concept. There is jihad, seen as a community obligation; where if some are taking part others are excused & jihad where muslim lands are threatened seen as an individual obligation. One can be engaged in jihad merely by supporting an "active" jihad. so perhaps your muslim friends are "jihading" and you are simply unaware?

In any case I suggest you lose the ignorance before you post again.
Oh, right, so all my Muslims friends must be closet terrorist sympthisers?

What language did you read the Koran in?  What edition?
FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!!!
m3thod
All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz
+2,197|7097|UK

JahManRed wrote:

Another Muslim bashing thread dressed up with Tomas Jefferson and American colonial nationalism. Getting tiring now.
Started by ATG...again.

Muslim = Untermensch, according to ATG.
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6955|Global Command

JahManRed wrote:

Another Muslim bashing thread dressed up with Tomas Jefferson and American colonial nationalism. Getting tiring now.
It is not muslim bashing.
A big deal is being made about this guy swearing in on the Koran. I am pointing out that the koran is there at all because Thomas Jefferson was also at war with the Muslims, and had the book to better understand a enemy.
Except 99% of us never knew that. They were called pirates.
Fen321
Member
+54|6923|Singularity
Where the pirates pillaging because the religion told them to....nope

Was it a good tool to use an excuse to kill people......yup

Can the Author differentiate between the two...nope

Ph33r the Muslims they are coming for your booty!
Parker
isteal
+1,452|6820|The Gem Saloon

vedds wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

Nope, but I do know that if it were a book of Jihad, my Muslim friends would already be Jihading.
Now if you had read it, you would know that "jihad" is not simply blowing up a busload of nuns(or US soldiers whatever) for allah. but a rather broader concept. There is jihad, seen as a community obligation; where if some are taking part others are excused & jihad where muslim lands are threatened seen as an individual obligation. One can be engaged in jihad merely by supporting an "active" jihad. so perhaps your muslim friends are "jihading" and you are simply unaware?

In any case I suggest you lose the ignorance before you post again.
lol u must not know bubbalo.....hell be ignorant till he gets through puberty.......its a rough time for some people.
Ottomania
Troll has returned.
+62|6947|Istanbul-Turkey
how many of you actually know the real meaning of Jihad? its to spread islam and try to make others muslim, but not by force.
Fen321
Member
+54|6923|Singularity
Jihad = Struggle

Greater Jihad = Spreading faith

Lesser Jihad = Following your scriptures, practicing values taught in scripture etc.

Jihad /= Holy war


Crusade = Holy war

Media = confuse Jihad with Crusade = Brain Fart

Crusade = Bush boo boo in calling it that...

Irony = Losing war in Iraq kinda like Crusaders losing the Holy Wars
Parker
isteal
+1,452|6820|The Gem Saloon

Ottomania wrote:

how many of you actually know the real meaning of Jihad? its to spread islam and try to make others muslim, but not by force.
wow, you know about jihad?
tell me what you know of Wahabi, and then tell me about jihad....................
EVieira
Member
+105|6904|Lutenblaag, Molvania

ATG wrote:

JahManRed wrote:

Another Muslim bashing thread dressed up with Tomas Jefferson and American colonial nationalism. Getting tiring now.
It is not muslim bashing.
A big deal is being made about this guy swearing in on the Koran. I am pointing out that the koran is there at all because Thomas Jefferson was also at war with the Muslims, and had the book to better understand a enemy.
Except 99% of us never knew that. They were called pirates.
A war against slavering pirates, when at the same time there were millions of african slaves in the US. A bit hypocritical, no?
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered;  the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei  (1564-1642)
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7142

EVieira wrote:

ATG wrote:

JahManRed wrote:

Another Muslim bashing thread dressed up with Tomas Jefferson and American colonial nationalism. Getting tiring now.
It is not muslim bashing.
A big deal is being made about this guy swearing in on the Koran. I am pointing out that the koran is there at all because Thomas Jefferson was also at war with the Muslims, and had the book to better understand a enemy.
Except 99% of us never knew that. They were called pirates.
A war against slavering pirates, when at the same time there were millions of african slaves in the US. A bit hypocritical, no?
Whatever it takes to win the hearts and minds of the people.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
EVieira
Member
+105|6904|Lutenblaag, Molvania

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

EVieira wrote:

ATG wrote:


It is not muslim bashing.
A big deal is being made about this guy swearing in on the Koran. I am pointing out that the koran is there at all because Thomas Jefferson was also at war with the Muslims, and had the book to better understand a enemy.
Except 99% of us never knew that. They were called pirates.
A war against slavering pirates, when at the same time there were millions of african slaves in the US. A bit hypocritical, no?
Whatever it takes to win the hearts and minds of the people.
Hearts and minds. Right...
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered;  the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei  (1564-1642)

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