Pages: 1

 

2006-12-30 10:55:51
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+796|6968|United States of America
At this point in time, we humans tend to consider ourselves as highly evolved beings and we now have medical technology to normalize birth defects and things of that nature but consider this: suppose a baby is born with some feature that is abnormal to us now but could possibly be a benefit and progress along the evolutionary timeline.
With our technology and whatnot, wouldn't it be more than likely that we would use surgery or some other means to correct this anomaly and make this person "normal" in our eyes, thus cancelling a possible crucial step in the process of evolution to a better version of ourselves. I believe that if some evolutionary advantage was shown to us, we would see it as a defect and prevent something that could help us in the future.

Put in hypothetical perspective- Global warming is real and the earth is getting hotter every year. Men begin losing hair on top of their heads but use surgery and other means for vanity. Meanwhile, we lose the ability to live in a hot environment for that sake. --- I know it's a poor example but you should catch my drift.

Discuss?
2006-12-30 11:00:48
Col.Vind
Bob Saget is my karkand..
+14|6626|Smurfvillage, Gotland
I believe that if a surgeon was to cut of my baby's tail or whatever, my baby's offspring would still have a tail.

Surgery does not alter your gens.
2006-12-30 12:31:38
chuyskywalker
Admin
+2,439|7131|"Frisco"

True. It's also my very firm belief that humans have long removed themselves from the evolutionary process -- we have little to no real predators which exist to thin the weak from the strong. Additionally, we have means to adapt the environment to US instead of us adapting to the environment. On those two points, we're no longer following a traditional Darwinian evolutionary pattern.
2006-12-30 12:35:06
Blehm98
conservative hatemonger
+150|6747|meh-land
the human genetic pool is actually getting shallower, specifically because our bodies are getting weaker, especially our immune systems.  We are relying more and more on antibiotics and vaccines to keep us alive, and while we do stay alive, as i said we are allowing those with undesireable genes to survive and weakening our immune system, that too shallowing the gene pool
2006-12-30 12:37:39
CommieChipmunk
Member
+488|6853|Portland, OR, USA

chuyskywalker wrote:

True. It's also my very firm belief that humans have long removed themselves from the evolutionary process -- we have little to no real predators which exist to thin the weak from the strong. Additionally, we have means to adapt the environment to US instead of us adapting to the environment. On those two points, we're no longer following a traditional Darwinian evolutionary pattern.
Alright so then are we devolving?  Sometimes I wonder..
2006-12-30 12:39:04
chuyskywalker
Admin
+2,439|7131|"Frisco"

Blehm -- True. It's debateable wether or not the use of our advance medicines will really help or hinder us in the long run, but that is something to consider -- the "super virus" that is created by constantly battering it with more and more effective medicines.

Of course, the flip side is that the average life expectancy of a human has probably doubled in the last 300 years. And on top of that, good health in that expansion stays longer. (Meaning: feeling "old" is stayed off for more years than previously.)
2006-12-30 12:39:46
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6689|North Carolina
An interesting topic.  Personally, I think we should just continue cataloguing genes and researching gene therapy.  If we document all genes and also perfect the technology to create or alter them, we can literally direct the evolution of humans toward whatever is necessary for their adaptation to the environment present.

Gene therapy is quite an amazing thing, since it has the potential to cure diseases and remove all defects from even fully grown humans.  Cloning is only the tip of the iceberg.
2006-12-30 12:41:32
chuyskywalker
Admin
+2,439|7131|"Frisco"

CommieChipmunk wrote:

Alright so then are we devolving?  Sometimes I wonder..
Not really -- we're probably just stagnant as far as our genetic makeup is concerned. Besides which, evolution of any kind usually takes hundreds of generations to really show any effect.

Where humans are really "evolving" is through the application of intellect. While our bodies may not be becoming stronger, faster, harder -- our mental acuity and prowess over the world around us IS increasing. Space flight, nuclear power, mass transportation, teh internets ("tubes"), etc.
2006-12-30 12:42:45
chuyskywalker
Admin
+2,439|7131|"Frisco"

Turquoise wrote:

An interesting topic.  Personally, I think we should just continue cataloguing genes and researching gene therapy.  If we document all genes and also perfect the technology to create or alter them, we can literally direct the evolution of humans toward whatever is necessary for their adaptation to the environment present.

Gene therapy is quite an amazing thing, since it has the potential to cure diseases and remove all defects from even fully grown humans.  Cloning is only the tip of the iceberg.
To hear that from someone in NC is refreshing

However, we're going to need to do something about our government getting in the way of that research before it'll really start to happen
2006-12-30 13:03:31
TuataraDude
Member
+115|6806|Aotearoa

Blehm98 wrote:

the human genetic pool is actually getting shallower, specifically because our bodies are getting weaker, especially our immune systems.  We are relying more and more on antibiotics and vaccines to keep us alive, and while we do stay alive, as i said we are allowing those with undesireable genes to survive and weakening our immune system, that too shallowing the gene pool
The other aspect is that people that would not have survived in their condition 150 years ago, are now able to and pass on any genetic "imperfections". While this failure to survive is how a species becomes stronger, our humanity to let people with genetic "imperfections" live long productive lives has led us to a point where you are partially correct, we are getting weaker as a whole.

But consider this, those people with genetic "imperfections" may also have some genes that are better than what we would consider the norm. There is a possibility that the "imperfections" remain dormant in the next generation and the stronger aspects assert themselves. This could lead to an overall improvement in Humans.


BTW, I put imperfections in quote marks as I feel nobody should judge what is imperfect. Technically, I doubt anyone on the planet has ever had "perfect" ones to begin with, so by imperfect, I am referring to what society would consider outside the realms of normal. A very subjective term and I don't want people to start complaining about what is considered imperfect etc. This is not meant to denigrate anyone.
2006-12-30 13:04:02
apollo_fi
The Flying Kalakukko.
+94|6814|The lunar module

chuyskywalker wrote:

True. It's also my very firm belief that humans have long removed themselves from the evolutionary process -- we have little to no real predators which exist to thin the weak from the strong. Additionally, we have means to adapt the environment to US instead of us adapting to the environment. On those two points, we're no longer following a traditional Darwinian evolutionary pattern.
Not so. There is no escape from natural selection... it applies today as much as it did when we had a protruding brow and a full tail.

'Weak' and 'strong' are not fixed concepts. In evolutionary terms, the 'weak' do not pass their genes on, and the 'strong' do. You can look backwards and see what the criteria for 'weak' and 'strong' have been, but the same criteria may not necessarily apply now, or in the future.

Rest assured, you are Evolving
2006-12-30 14:23:19
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6884|132 and Bush

chuyskywalker wrote:

Blehm -- True. It's debateable wether or not the use of our advance medicines will really help or hinder us in the long run, but that is something to consider -- the "super virus" that is created by constantly battering it with more and more effective medicines.

Of course, the flip side is that the average life expectancy of a human has probably doubled in the last 300 years. And on top of that, good health in that expansion stays longer. (Meaning: feeling "old" is stayed off for more years than previously.)
I'm not so sure a doubled life expectancy is a good thing. In fact, it's probably a horrible thing. The amount of stress put on our planet is pushing us in the direction of extinction. It took humans 10,000 generations to reach 2 billion (2.3 1945). In one human lifetime it is going to go from 2.3 to 9 billion(2050). This all puts extreme pressure on food, water, and natural resources. We are fooling ourselves into thinking there is an unlimited supply of these necessities of life.

Last edited by Kmarion (2006-12-30 14:25:08)

Xbone Stormsurgezz
2006-12-30 14:30:36
Commie Killer
Member
+192|6671

Blehm98 wrote:

the human genetic pool is actually getting shallower, specifically because our bodies are getting weaker, especially our immune systems.  We are relying more and more on antibiotics and vaccines to keep us alive, and while we do stay alive, as i said we are allowing those with undesireable genes to survive and weakening our immune system, that too shallowing the gene pool
I would doubt that, our body automatically produces anti bodies after we get a disease once.
2006-12-30 14:38:05
Blehm98
conservative hatemonger
+150|6747|meh-land

apollo_fi wrote:

chuyskywalker wrote:

True. It's also my very firm belief that humans have long removed themselves from the evolutionary process -- we have little to no real predators which exist to thin the weak from the strong. Additionally, we have means to adapt the environment to US instead of us adapting to the environment. On those two points, we're no longer following a traditional Darwinian evolutionary pattern.
Not so. There is no escape from natural selection... it applies today as much as it did when we had a protruding brow and a full tail.

'Weak' and 'strong' are not fixed concepts. In evolutionary terms, the 'weak' do not pass their genes on, and the 'strong' do. You can look backwards and see what the criteria for 'weak' and 'strong' have been, but the same criteria may not necessarily apply now, or in the future.

Rest assured, you are Evolving
We may be evolving, but at the moment i think we have reached one of the really steep cliffs, and we are struggling to get over it.  At the moment all of the scientific advances we have had are simply due to time put into the topic.  I do not believe our intellectual capacity is evolving very much if at all right now, because we have yet to fully use our current intellectual capacity.  We are just better accessing it.


There may be no escape from natural selection, but it is going much slower right now because humans are instead of focusing solely on advancing, we are instead focusing on keeping as many people alive as possible.  This is in the long run probably the best way, because one can pass on good genes even if one has bad genes, and the bad genes will eventually be passed out, but it is much slower. 

commie killer, you say that, but our body is producing anti-bodies upon stimulation by vaccines, and anti-bodies do a lot of work for our immune system, which means two things:
People with weaker immune system genes are allowed to live, watering down the pool
and our bodies are becoming less capable of defending themselves from something new.  If some new disease extremely virulent disease were to appear, 3/4 of the planet's population could quite possibly die simply because weak immune system genes have been distributed around the world
2006-12-30 15:51:32
jonsimon
Member
+224|6779
You can't control evolution, if a tail is cut off by a surgeon, it obviously did not help the child survive in his world. Essentially, we can't do anything wrong evolutionarily speaking.
2006-12-30 15:53:54
stryyker
bad touch
+1,682|7004|California

Human evolution will never stop.

We can thank races for that.
2006-12-30 16:43:56
Jepeto87
Member
+38|6969|Dublin
Guys come on, the church says there's no such thing as evolution. This sort of talk will get us burnt at the stake!

I read that people's eyelash's are becoming thicker in some places to combat industrial pollution, cant recall where I read this though, sorry.
2006-12-30 22:51:19
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6689|North Carolina

chuyskywalker wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

An interesting topic.  Personally, I think we should just continue cataloguing genes and researching gene therapy.  If we document all genes and also perfect the technology to create or alter them, we can literally direct the evolution of humans toward whatever is necessary for their adaptation to the environment present.

Gene therapy is quite an amazing thing, since it has the potential to cure diseases and remove all defects from even fully grown humans.  Cloning is only the tip of the iceberg.
To hear that from someone in NC is refreshing

However, we're going to need to do something about our government getting in the way of that research before it'll really start to happen
Heh... well, not everyone who lives in the Bible Belt is anti-Science or anti-cloning.

But yeah, government interference here has already allowed countries like Singapore to surpass us in biotechnology.
2007-01-01 12:17:02
deeznutz1245
Connecticut: our chimps are stealin yo' faces.
+483|6776|Connecticut
Definitelt breast implants..........if I can touch em they are real.
Malloy must go
2007-01-01 12:21:02
Dr_Paulos236
Member
+41|6679|England
Does it matter? Our level of technology today and to come means that evolution is ours to control. It is very possible we could be 'upgrading' ourselves in the future with robotic parts or whatnot, and probably even human 'spare parts' grown from stem cell research. Therefore, we have no need for Darwinism. The future is ours!!!!!

 

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