A question about a airplane on a treadmill.

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A question about a airplane on a treadmill.

2006-12-26 01:02:01

T0rr3nt: Member; +54|6577|Michigan

Valium500mg. wrote:
Aircraft carries launch jets at full power and going the same direction thus speeding them up reallyyyyyyy fast
Dry ice is not water it is co2 (carbondioxcide) solidified you melt it it's gone, thin air sorta speak, good question though, here's mine "water freezes in to ice at 32 degrees Fahrenheit(0 Celsius) at what temp. does ice melt back in to water"? nice pic ATG, although I no longer partake I still love the smell of some good old Crescent county skunk

at 32 degrees there is an equilibrium point(ie melting and freezing at the same time)

dry ice sublimes, meaning it goes stright from a solid to a gas.
the reverse is deposition

2006-12-26 02:27:24

Skorpy-chan: Member; +127|6345|Twyford, UK

No, no airflow = no lift.

A sodding big fan, however, would do just fine, as it's only the effective speed of air over the wing that counts for lift.

Now I have the urge to fly a Cessna in a wind tunnel.

2006-12-26 03:10:12

Shadow893: lel; +75|6693|England

Krauser98 wrote:
Yes! Yes it would! You're all wrong!!! The treadmill would have no effect on the plane because it is being pushed / pulled by a jet / propeller! It's not a car! The wheels are not what makes it go, thus the plane would go right off the end of the treadmill with little to no difference. (Until the wings hit the handlebars on the treadmill that is.) As normal, the air would be flowing under the wings, because the plane would be moving forward. If the plane were powered by it's wheels it would only be able to fly short distances and would be more of a jumping car than an airplane. My answer is a solid Yes, the plane would still take off!

No dude - Firstly I couldn't make sense of it and secondly, the jets do the 'same' job as wheels on a car: to push it forward. So if it's in contact with the aircraft wheels the treadmill would only keep it back. No matter how much thrust there was because the treadmill would, apparently, match the speed of the aircraft.

So....

NO, it wouldn't move.

2006-12-26 03:20:42

IoT: Member; +3|6590|Stockholm, Sweden

Krauser98 wrote:
Yes! Yes it would! You're all wrong!!! The treadmill would have no effect on the plane because it is being pushed / pulled by a jet / propeller! It's not a car! The wheels are not what makes it go, thus the plane would go right off the end of the treadmill with little to no difference. (Until the wings hit the handlebars on the treadmill that is.) As normal, the air would be flowing under the wings, because the plane would be moving forward. If the plane were powered by it's wheels it would only be able to fly short distances and would be more of a jumping car than an airplane. My answer is a solid Yes, the plane would still take off!

So true! The wheels of the plane will only go twice as fast as they normally would, but the plane will still move forward and therefore lift off!

2006-12-26 04:13:06

4_Phucsache: Property of BF2s©; +112|6583|Brisbane Australia

it is like this. Put on a pair of roller-skates, stand on the conveyor belt with a rope tied at the other end. Now run the conveyor belt in the opposite direction to where the rope is and use the rope to pull yourself towards where the rope is tied on. You will still move forward. A plane is similiar as it uses the air around it as the 'rope' and pulls itself forward regardless.

u have to approach this problem so that u think that the airplane could sit on the conveyor belt with its engines off, the belt moving at a high speed backwards and yet the plane would remain marginally still, it would obviously move slowly due to friction, but it would not be moving at the same speed as the belt because the wheels are free spinning

When an airplane takes off, there is one major forward force… the forward thrust. The main rearward force is air resistance. The turning of the wheels provides a small frictional force, but because the wheels are free-rolling, this friction is very small. Unless the wheels are locked, the friction is always going to be less than the thrust, which means that the overall force is still forward, and the plane will still move.

imagine instead of a plane, you've got a rocket with wheels sitting on that belt. When that rocket fires, it's eventually going to rocket off the end of that belt...which means that it doesn't remain stationary to the ground and if it had wings, it would fly.

2006-12-26 05:34:39

DocZ: Member; +13|6688|Belgium

ATG wrote:
A plane is standing on a runway that can move (like a giant conveyor
belt). This conveyor has a control system that tracks the plane's
speed and tunes the speed of the conveyor to be exactly the same (but
in the opposite direction).

Will the plane be able to take off?

I am guessing you failed science classes.....

your answer is: no way in this space-time continuum.... A plane needs to acquire speed to create lift forces that accumulate underneath the wing. The wheels have no other use than to propel a plane on the ground......

2006-12-26 08:55:37

bobby177: Member; +129|6474|Texas.. getting out asap

The plane would take off.

If the plane was a 4 wheel drive plane with no engines then it would not take off, but you have to remember the thrust comes from the engines and not the wheels. The wheels do not make the plane move, they just help it roll.

DocZ wrote:
The wheels have no other use than to propel a plane on the ground......

Have you ever seen those big things on the wings of an airplane?

Last edited by bobby177 (2006-12-26 08:56:31)

2006-12-26 08:57:57

CrazeD: Member; +368|6673|Maine

I see how to fix the J10's...but a huge conveyor under their spawn.

BRILLIANT!

2006-12-26 09:04:27

l41e: Member; +677|6648

My answer is "it depends". If the plane's moving at its normal takeoff speed plus the speed of the treadmill, then yes, it will take off - it has acquired enough lift to get off the ground. However, if it moves slower than that, then the lift won't get it off the ground. In addition, if it moves either faster or slower than the treadmill, it'll fall off one of the ends. Once it falls off it can turn around and fly off some other way, unless the treadmill goes around the entire world.

2006-12-26 09:09:22

cheshiremoe: Evil Geniuses for a sparsely populated tomorrow; +50|6709

CrazeD wrote:
I see how to fix the J10's...but a huge conveyor under their spawn.

BRILLIANT!

Then the noobs would be able to kill them selves on the J10 with out it moving( I see mass TK for the first few days before every one abandons it). The People Mover at Disney Land has the most accidents resulting in injury out of all there rides.

Last edited by cheshiremoe (2006-12-26 09:11:24)

2006-12-26 09:21:06

Hy$t3RiA: Pocket Rocket; +5|6399|Blighty

Krauser98 wrote:
Yes! Yes it would! You're all wrong!!! The treadmill would have no effect on the plane because it is being pushed / pulled by a jet / propeller! It's not a car! The wheels are not what makes it go, thus the plane would go right off the end of the treadmill with little to no difference. (Until the wings hit the handlebars on the treadmill that is.) As normal, the air would be flowing under the wings, because the plane would be moving forward. If the plane were powered by it's wheels it would only be able to fly short distances and would be more of a jumping car than an airplane. My answer is a solid Yes, the plane would still take off!

LMAO what a superb reply, completly wrong but superb all the same. Maybe someone else has been smoking weed?!?

This may come as a shock to you but the wheels on aircraft do move, I know I know this sounds absurd but they do. Sounds like you would get confused about which direction the smoke would come out of an electric train!

2006-12-26 09:22:09

flyboy65: dapilot; +2|6445

seymorebutts443 wrote:
well if you think about it. if its kind of what they do on aircraft carriers with the catapults. except with a moving runway. if the said runway was moving fast enough it could generate enough speed to allow the plane to become airborne.

you sure Mary Jane didnt visit you tonight?

on an aircraft carrier the catapult is moving the SAME way as the airplane NOT in the opposite direction

2006-12-26 09:24:37

King_County_Downy: shitfaced; +2,791|6597|Seattle

Krauser is correct. The wheel speed means nothing.

Sober enough to know what I'm doing, drunk enough to really enjoy doing it

2006-12-26 09:32:04

Paco_the_Insane: Phorum Phantom; +244|6645|Ohio

depends on if the wheels are what is driving the plane

if it was in a closed environment, where the air was allowed to circulate, it might eventually pick up enough speed to lift the plane.

2006-12-26 09:35:57

Flaming_Maniac: prince of insufficient light; +2,490|6707|67.222.138.85

Krauser wins. Ground speed means nothing, the whole point of flying is getting your airspeed up.

2006-12-26 09:36:47

viper313: One Shot, One Kill; +53|6642|Minnesota

Krauser98 wrote:
Yes! Yes it would! You're all wrong!!! The treadmill would have no effect on the plane because it is being pushed / pulled by a jet / propeller! It's not a car! The wheels are not what makes it go, thus the plane would go right off the end of the treadmill with little to no difference. (Until the wings hit the handlebars on the treadmill that is.) As normal, the air would be flowing under the wings, because the plane would be moving forward. If the plane were powered by it's wheels it would only be able to fly short distances and would be more of a jumping car than an airplane. My answer is a solid Yes, the plane would still take off!

While this point sounds good in theory, there is one thing everyone is forgeting. Friction! If the treadmill(running in the oposite direction) matches the speed of the plane, the friction on the wheels would keep the plane in the same spot therebye creating no airflow over the wings and thus no lift!!!

The jet,props only push, pull the plane up to the AIRSPEED the plane needs to create enough lift. It doesn't just create lift on there own. Otherwise planes could take off from where they stand!

Last edited by viper313 (2006-12-26 09:43:02)

2006-12-26 10:06:38

Nintendogamer: Member; +72|6587|Chelmsford, UK

yes, it just takes off backwards.

2006-12-26 10:14:55

King_County_Downy: shitfaced; +2,791|6597|Seattle

viper313 wrote:
While this point sounds good in theory, there is one thing everyone is forgeting. Friction! If the treadmill(running in the oposite direction) matches the speed of the plane, the friction on the wheels would keep the plane in the same spot therebye creating no airflow over the wings and thus no lift!!!

The jet,props only push, pull the plane up to the AIRSPEED the plane needs to create enough lift. It doesn't just create lift on there own. Otherwise planes could take off from where they stand!

Are you trying to say that the wheels don't spin? Ball Bearings FTW

I guess maybe I don't understand the question. Is the treadmill the same length as the regular runway? If so, the plane would pick up speed regardless of the speed of the wheels. The plane would still moved forward at it's normal rate. Friction has nothing to do with it. The wheels can spin ten thousand miles per hour before they'd bind up and slow the plane down.

Sober enough to know what I'm doing, drunk enough to really enjoy doing it

2006-12-26 10:18:01

nonexistentusmc: Member; +26|6445|Queens, NYC

Catapults work because the catapults pull/push the plane into the wind. With wind/airflow, you create lift. That conveyor belt thing is nothing like a catapult. Plus on top of that, in a carrier, during takeoffs, the carrier is going full speed INTO the wind. Which means you have airflow as it is, plus the 180 mph that the catapult gives, so we're talking about at least 200 mph of so of that headwind to create that upward force called lift.

2006-12-26 10:19:32

Kung Jew: That one mod; +331|6745|Houston, TX

The plane would take off if you smoked enough.... or would that be you floating, and having a hallucination of flying?

KJ

2006-12-26 10:19:48

Janja: Jiggaboo Jones; +11|6382|FLOOR E DUH

planes can stand?

2006-12-26 10:23:55

GotMex?: $623,493,674,868,715.98 in Debt; +193|6763

Krauser98 wrote:
Yes! Yes it would! You're all wrong!!! The treadmill would have no effect on the plane because it is being pushed / pulled by a jet / propeller! It's not a car! The wheels are not what makes it go, thus the plane would go right off the end of the treadmill with little to no difference. (Until the wings hit the handlebars on the treadmill that is.) As normal, the air would be flowing under the wings, because the plane would be moving forward. If the plane were powered by it's wheels it would only be able to fly short distances and would be more of a jumping car than an airplane. My answer is a solid Yes, the plane would still take off!

Krauser98 is entirely right here. Planes don't depend on tire traction like a car does to move forward. Instead, they use those massive jet engines to compress high volumes of air and then burn the jet fuel, expelling a good amount of air backwards thus creating thrust. The only reason we have wheels on jets is to give them a low-friction contact with the ground. Also, I saw someone say something about friction not allowing you to take off, but the friction created by the wheels/treadmill would be very small compared to the amount of thrust one jet engine is able to produce. Maybe it would be a little harder to take off, but so is having head wind against the plane.

Additionally, the wheels would be spinning at about twice the speed of the airplane if such conveyor belt was built.

But anyway, good question, and good answer.

Last edited by GotMex? (2006-12-26 10:25:48)

2006-12-26 10:35:48

viper313: One Shot, One Kill; +53|6642|Minnesota

But the treadmill is matching the planes speed. No matter how fast the planes thrust is the treadmill compensates for this. Thats the key. If the treadmill was at a fixed speed it would take off. And even with bearings, there is always friction!

Last edited by viper313 (2006-12-26 10:38:05)

2006-12-26 10:41:01

Dwit: Member; +34|6510

RandomSchl wrote:
d3athwi5h4 wrote:
No, the plane being stationary wouldn't create any lift

2006-12-26 10:45:52

King_County_Downy: shitfaced; +2,791|6597|Seattle

viper313 wrote:
But the treadmill is matching the planes speed. No matter how fast the planes thrust is the treadmill compensates for this. Thats the key. If the treadmill was at a fixed speed it would take off. And even with bearings, there is always friction!

Nope. Wheel speed has nothing to do with it unless the brakes were on. The treadmill could start out at 1000mph and go up from there, doesn't mean the plane would be moving just cause the wheels were.

Sober enough to know what I'm doing, drunk enough to really enjoy doing it

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Valium500mg. wrote:

Krauser98 wrote:

Krauser98 wrote:

ATG wrote:

DocZ wrote:

CrazeD wrote:

Krauser98 wrote:

seymorebutts443 wrote:

Krauser98 wrote:

viper313 wrote:

Krauser98 wrote:

RandomSchl wrote:

d3athwi5h4 wrote:

viper313 wrote:

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