Commie Killer
Member
+192|6811
How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin.
        Ronald Reagan
        40th president of United States of America (1911 - 2004)

While this is coming from a guy who hates communism, Im pretty sure he understands it, I mean he defeated the Soviet Union. Anyways I have read excerpts from the writings of Lenin and Marx, I have to admit, I hate the entire theory of it.

Discuss.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7099|Canberra, AUS
Beautiful in theory. In a perfect world, everyone WOULD be equal and there WOULD be no reason for states.

But theory doesn't translate perfectly to practice.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
TeamZephyr
Maintaining My Rage Since 1975
+124|6954|Hillside, Melbourne, Australia
The Soviet Union defeated itself.
jonsimon
Member
+224|6920
The soviet union was not defeated by the US, it just conveniently didn't succeed. And communism doesn't require a perfect world to be successful, nor is it naive, and it has never been tested under good circumstances.
Parker
isteal
+1,452|6819|The Gem Saloon
actually the spending of the united states on the SDI initiative defeated the soviet union. their economy suffered due to the fact that they were trying to keep up with a supposed sattelite system that engaged ICBMs with lasers. without that program that reagon was largely responsible for executing, the cold war was likely to continue much longer. or until someone else figured out that if they had no money, they had no government.
Commie Killer
Member
+192|6811

TeamZephyr wrote:

The Soviet Union defeated itself.
Well yea, without Reagan thought it would of lasted a decade or two longer.
Commie Killer
Member
+192|6811

jonsimon wrote:

The soviet union was not defeated by the US, it just conveniently didn't succeed. And communism doesn't require a perfect world to be successful, nor is it naive, and it has never been tested under good circumstances.
Communism can not succeed with human nature. Impossible, and yea, with the massive Defense and economic build ups Reagan gave us the Russians had to play a hell of alot of catch up, they failed at it.
Miller
IT'S MILLER TIME!
+271|7180|United States of America

TeamZephyr wrote:

The Soviet Union defeated itself.
True, and incorrect at the same time.  It took a key factor to take the USSR down: Reagan's policies.  Reagan accelerated our defense spending and our weapons, and how many we had of them, grew exponentially.  The USSR couldn't keep up with the US because they were poor at the time, and kept getting even more poor by using money only on defense.  Reagan's influence on Russia was huge and helped defeat them.  He didn't do it alone, but the USSR didn't fall on its own either.
Elamdri
The New Johnnie Cochran
+134|7071|Peoria
2 Things:

The USSR fell because it couldn't keep up with the US in terms of arms and still maintain it's economy.

and

Reagan's policies are part of the reason that our economy is so crappy right now.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7025|132 and Bush

Spark wrote:

Beautiful in theory. In a perfect world, everyone WOULD be equal and there WOULD be no reason for states.

But theory doesn't translate perfectly to practice.
Well said.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
weamo8
Member
+50|6867|USA
^^  Miller is dead on.
__________________________________

In my understanding Communism does not even work well in theory.  That is to say, it does not work well with human beings.  People need to see direct benefits on their work based on the work they did.  Otherwise, they will not perform well.

Look to Office Space: There is a line in the movie that goes something like "People paid hourly will only work hard enough to not get fired."  Very few people excel without direct benefit for themselves.
FesterTheMolester
BF2s US Server Admin, IRC>Forums
+157|7064|The Mind Of A Cereal Killer
https://www.threadless.com//product/383/zoom.gif

Last edited by FesterTheMolester (2006-12-14 19:07:16)

weamo8
Member
+50|6867|USA

Elamdri wrote:

2 Things:

The USSR fell because it couldn't keep up with the US in terms of arms and still maintain it's economy.

and

Reagan's policies are part of the reason that our economy is so crappy right now.
Many people, including Alan Greenspan, have suggested that Reagan's policies were one of the big reasons our economy was so good in the 90's.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7099|Canberra, AUS

weamo8 wrote:

^^  Miller is dead on.
__________________________________

In my understanding Communism does not even work well in theory.  That is to say, it does not work well with human beings.  People need to see direct benefits on their work based on the work they did.  Otherwise, they will not perform well.

Look to Office Space: There is a line in the movie that goes something like "People paid hourly will only work hard enough to not get fired."  Very few people excel without direct benefit for themselves.
I said in a perfect world.

Applying variables like 'human beings' is attemtping to translate it into practice - not what I was meaning.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
TeamZephyr
Maintaining My Rage Since 1975
+124|6954|Hillside, Melbourne, Australia

Commie Killer wrote:

TeamZephyr wrote:

The Soviet Union defeated itself.
Well yea, without Reagan thought it would of lasted a decade or two longer.
Right, whatever works for you. The Soviet Union was on a path to destruction the moment Stalin came into power, Reagan just used the "I'm fighting the Soviet Union" as a way to win those votes of Americans who were shit scared of the decades old "Red Scare".

Reagan only sought to bring back the old 50s Cold War were everyone was scared of being missiled from the Soviets, he took the SALT treaties and the goals achieved by Nixon during Detente and burned them in his White House fire. Reagan didn't end the Soviet Union, he used the Cold War as a way to maintain conservative power during the 80s in America, and it worked. America hasn't had a true liberal in power for a LONG time now (Clinton doesn't count, he is as conservative as Bush is).

The Soviet Union killed itself through a number of things, not a person.

1. Food Shortages, these were rampant and it meant that the populance was getting sick of the Soviet Union, creating internal tension.

2. Corruption, this also was rampant in the Kremlin and there was major conflict between Communist Party officials. (Look up the tanks in the Kremlin incident).

3. War In Afghanistan, this drained Soviet resources that were needed to put down people's struggles in Eastern Europe, which showed the world that the Soviet Union was draining itself.

4. Not ruling with an iron fist, When people's struggles began in place such as Poland 1980 (the allowance of Solidarity to exist) and the Revolutions of 1989 also known as the "Year Of Miracles" or "Autumn of Nations". By not putting down people's struggles in Poland and Hungary the Soviet Union showed weakness that the Eastern European nations used to get rid of Soviet power. Same applies for The Velvet Revolution in Czechoslovakia.

5. Mikhail Gorbachev, Perestroika and Glasnost. These reforms and that man probably did the most damage to the Soviet Union. By liberalising the economy and allowing the police state to be weakened the Soviet Union collasped.

There were many other reasons, too many to mention in fact, but if there's one general rule about revolutions (the collaspe of the Soviet Union was a revolution) is that,

Preconditions + Precipitants = Revolution.

The Soviet Union collasped because of a number of preconditions such as the food shortages and corruption in the Kremlin and the number of precipitants that occured during the 80s such as the Invasion of Afghanistan, the victories of Solidarity in Poland, and the weakning of the Police State. Reagan was neither a precondition or a precipitant that lead to the collaspe of the Soviet Union.
stryyker
bad touch
+1,682|7145|California

If reading Marx and Lenin makes you a communist, than that would make me one.
jonsimon
Member
+224|6920
For the purpose of intelligent discussion, why don't we first focus on defining communism? Anyone care to hazard an opinion?
Elamdri
The New Johnnie Cochran
+134|7071|Peoria

weamo8 wrote:

Elamdri wrote:

2 Things:

The USSR fell because it couldn't keep up with the US in terms of arms and still maintain it's economy.

and

Reagan's policies are part of the reason that our economy is so crappy right now.
Many people, including Alan Greenspan, have suggested that Reagan's policies were one of the big reasons our economy was so good in the 90's.
And we're gonna pay for the inflation when I go into the workforce. Meanwhile, you all get to retire with your nice million dollar homes with a set interest rate, while i'm lucky if I can find a house with an affordable mortgage.

Yeah, WooHoo Reagan. If he was alive today I'd give him a hug if he wasn't too busy strangling black people.
weamo8
Member
+50|6867|USA

Spark wrote:

weamo8 wrote:

^^  Miller is dead on.
__________________________________

In my understanding Communism does not even work well in theory.  That is to say, it does not work well with human beings.  People need to see direct benefits on their work based on the work they did.  Otherwise, they will not perform well.

Look to Office Space: There is a line in the movie that goes something like "People paid hourly will only work hard enough to not get fired."  Very few people excel without direct benefit for themselves.
I said in a perfect world.

Applying variables like 'human beings' is attemtping to translate it into practice - not what I was meaning.
What in the hell does that mean "In a perfect world?"  Are there any human beings?  If so, are they all the same?  Can you have underachievers, and overachievers, and still have a perfect world?

Anyways, we actually agree, so I dont know why I am responding.  I just think that there might be a lot of different versions of the "perfect world."  The phrase seems ridiculous to me.
jonsimon
Member
+224|6920

weamo8 wrote:

Spark wrote:

weamo8 wrote:

^^  Miller is dead on.
__________________________________

In my understanding Communism does not even work well in theory.  That is to say, it does not work well with human beings.  People need to see direct benefits on their work based on the work they did.  Otherwise, they will not perform well.

Look to Office Space: There is a line in the movie that goes something like "People paid hourly will only work hard enough to not get fired."  Very few people excel without direct benefit for themselves.
I said in a perfect world.

Applying variables like 'human beings' is attemtping to translate it into practice - not what I was meaning.
What in the hell does that mean "In a perfect world?"  Are there any human beings?  If so, are they all the same?  Can you have underachievers, and overachievers, and still have a perfect world?

Anyways, we actually agree, so I dont know why I am responding.  I just think that there might be a lot of different versions of the "perfect world."  The phrase seems ridiculous to me.
In the context, the phrase 'perfect world' refers to a world where communism works. The statement "In a perfect world" is always the beginning of a tautology.
weamo8
Member
+50|6867|USA

Elamdri wrote:

weamo8 wrote:

Elamdri wrote:

2 Things:

The USSR fell because it couldn't keep up with the US in terms of arms and still maintain it's economy.

and

Reagan's policies are part of the reason that our economy is so crappy right now.
Many people, including Alan Greenspan, have suggested that Reagan's policies were one of the big reasons our economy was so good in the 90's.
And we're gonna pay for the inflation when I go into the workforce. Meanwhile, you all get to retire with your nice million dollar homes with a set interest rate, while i'm lucky if I can find a house with an affordable mortgage.

Yeah, WooHoo Reagan. If he was alive today I'd give him a hug if he wasn't too busy strangling black people.
Yeah, economies doing well does cause inflation.  I think we should destroy our economy so that the millions of Americans who already own a home (like me) get hosed so you can buy your little house.  Good call.
Miller
IT'S MILLER TIME!
+271|7180|United States of America

Elamdri wrote:

weamo8 wrote:

Elamdri wrote:

2 Things:

The USSR fell because it couldn't keep up with the US in terms of arms and still maintain it's economy.

and

Reagan's policies are part of the reason that our economy is so crappy right now.
Many people, including Alan Greenspan, have suggested that Reagan's policies were one of the big reasons our economy was so good in the 90's.
And we're gonna pay for the inflation when I go into the workforce. Meanwhile, you all get to retire with your nice million dollar homes with a set interest rate, while i'm lucky if I can find a house with an affordable mortgage.

Yeah, WooHoo Reagan. If he was alive today I'd give him a hug if he wasn't too busy strangling black people.
Well, if you want to blame someone for inflation, it shouldn't be Reagan, it should be the people that want higher minimum wages.  That will increase inflation and have no benefit for you whatsoever if you are already working for higher than the minimum.  And where did this strangling black people come from?  I don't know anything about racism in his past.  Reagan, actually gave Americans pride in their country while he was in office. Wish I could have been there for it, not just read about it over and over... Too bad I'm stuck in this hell hole called the Earth, in the middle of a war that no one recognizes, and surrounded by ignorant baffoons in the democratic party, and by spineless pussies on the republican side.
jonsimon
Member
+224|6920

Miller wrote:

Elamdri wrote:

weamo8 wrote:


Many people, including Alan Greenspan, have suggested that Reagan's policies were one of the big reasons our economy was so good in the 90's.
And we're gonna pay for the inflation when I go into the workforce. Meanwhile, you all get to retire with your nice million dollar homes with a set interest rate, while i'm lucky if I can find a house with an affordable mortgage.

Yeah, WooHoo Reagan. If he was alive today I'd give him a hug if he wasn't too busy strangling black people.
Well, if you want to blame someone for inflation, it shouldn't be Reagan, it should be the people that want higher minimum wages.  That will increase inflation and have no benefit for you whatsoever if you are already working for higher than the minimum.  And where did this strangling black people come from?  I don't know anything about racism in his past.  Reagan, actually gave Americans pride in their country while he was in office. Wish I could have been there for it, not just read about it over and over... Too bad I'm stuck in this hell hole called the Earth, in the middle of a war that no one recognizes, and surrounded by ignorant baffoons in the democratic party, and by spineless pussies on the republican side.
Sigh. A higher minimum wage will not increase inflation if the equillibrium price of labor is above the price floor. Raising minimum wage is just a way to gaurentee employers are paying their employees at equilibrium levels rather than exploiting those that are desperate enough to work at any wage, the poor for example.
Miller
IT'S MILLER TIME!
+271|7180|United States of America

jonsimon wrote:

Miller wrote:

Elamdri wrote:


And we're gonna pay for the inflation when I go into the workforce. Meanwhile, you all get to retire with your nice million dollar homes with a set interest rate, while i'm lucky if I can find a house with an affordable mortgage.

Yeah, WooHoo Reagan. If he was alive today I'd give him a hug if he wasn't too busy strangling black people.
Well, if you want to blame someone for inflation, it shouldn't be Reagan, it should be the people that want higher minimum wages.  That will increase inflation and have no benefit for you whatsoever if you are already working for higher than the minimum.  And where did this strangling black people come from?  I don't know anything about racism in his past.  Reagan, actually gave Americans pride in their country while he was in office. Wish I could have been there for it, not just read about it over and over... Too bad I'm stuck in this hell hole called the Earth, in the middle of a war that no one recognizes, and surrounded by ignorant baffoons in the democratic party, and by spineless pussies on the republican side.
Sigh. A higher minimum wage will not increase inflation if the equillibrium price of labor is above the price floor. Raising minimum wage is just a way to gaurentee employers are paying their employees at equilibrium levels rather than exploiting those that are desperate enough to work at any wage, the poor for example.
Oh, I get it... Now I will go research this stuff. Thanks for the correction.
jonsimon
Member
+224|6920

weamo8 wrote:

Elamdri wrote:

weamo8 wrote:


Many people, including Alan Greenspan, have suggested that Reagan's policies were one of the big reasons our economy was so good in the 90's.
And we're gonna pay for the inflation when I go into the workforce. Meanwhile, you all get to retire with your nice million dollar homes with a set interest rate, while i'm lucky if I can find a house with an affordable mortgage.

Yeah, WooHoo Reagan. If he was alive today I'd give him a hug if he wasn't too busy strangling black people.
Yeah, economies doing well does cause inflation.  I think we should destroy our economy so that the millions of Americans who already own a home (like me) get hosed so you can buy your little house.  Good call.
Way to turn a complex issue into a black and white statement. While it is true that inflation is always associated with growth, the amount of inflation may vary. In other words, there is not a direct relationship between the two, accelerating inflation will not stimulate growth, so controlling inflation is very important. Now shut up because you don't know what you're talking about and he had a valid point.

And maybe return to the topic at hand: Communism.

Board footer

Privacy Policy - © 2025 Jeff Minard