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2006-11-30 16:57:45
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6792|SE London

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

Why are you trying to defend terrorists? Hamas targets civilians in terrorist attacks. Is that okay to you?

Hamas' first use of suicide bombing occurred on April 16, 1993 when a suicide bomber driving an explosive-laden van detonated between two buses parked at a restaurant. It was Hamas' 19th known attack since 1989 (the others being shootings, kidnappings and knife attacks).

Hamas continued to launch suicide attacks during the Oslo Accords period (see List of Hamas suicide attacks).

During the second Intifada, Hamas, along with the Islamic Jihad Movement, spearheaded the violence through the years of the Palestinian uprising. Since then Hamas has conducted many attacks on Israel, mainly through its military wing - the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades. These attacks have included large-scale suicide bombings against Israeli civilian targets, the most deadly of which was the bombing of a Netanya hotel on March 27 2002, in which 30 people were killed and 140 were wounded. This attack has also been referred to as the Passover massacre since it took place on the first night of the Jewish festival of Passover. Overall, from November 2000 to April 2004, 377 Israeli citizens and soldiers were killed and 2,076 wounded in 425 attacks by Hamas. (Source: IDF website.) The Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs maintains a comprehensive list of Hamas attacks.

Since 2002, Hamas has used homemade Qassam rockets to hit Israeli towns in the Negev, such as Sderot. The introduction of the Qassam-2 rocket has allowed Hamas to reach large Israeli cities such as Ashkelon, bringing great concern to the Israeli populace and many attempts by the Israeli military to stop the proliferation and use of the rockets.

On November 8, 2006 the military wing of Hamas called on Muslims around the world to attack American targets. "America is offering political, financial and logistic cover for the Zionist occupation crimes, and it is responsible for the Beit Hanoun massacre. Therefore, the people and the nation all over the globe are required to teach the American enemy tough lessons," Hamas said in a statement sent to The Associated Press

Bertster7 wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

Why are you sympathizing with terrorists? The Palestinian government is an official sponsor of terrorism. With that in mind you actually think the land in which Israel resides is morally Palestine's?
The Israeli government sponsors terrorism. Do you know who made up the IDF when Israel was established as a state? Hagannah, Irgun and Lehi formed the IDF. 3 terrorist organisations. The most sucessfull terrorist organisations I can think of certainly, but still defined as terrorist organisations by significantly more nations than either Hezbollah or Hamas.

Israel is a much a terrorist nation as Palestine or Lebannon, it's just that they have bigger weapons these days.

Are you condoning Israel's bombing campaigns against the British and Palestinians?

There is no crime commited by the Palestinians that the Israelis have not already commited against them.
Palestine until just recently has rejected all proposals of peace. Even then they launched rockets into civilian neighborhoods just hours after the cease-fire started. You're obviously so set in one direction that you will ignore all fact and spew out your exaggerated interpretation of the word "terrorist".
Why are you trying to defend terrorists? Israel targets civilians in terrorist attacks. Is that okay to you?

Two sides of the same coin. But as I have explained, Israel is historically more responsible for the situation.
You're really just demonstrating your willfull ignorance of the situation.

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

Hell, just today you argued using nothing of substance against mathematical proof that .999~ = 1.
I think you'll find I agreed that there is absolute matematical proof that 1=0.999 recuring. I simply pointed out that this is irrelevant and merely an anomaly of the numerical system we use (which it is) and that 0.9999 recuring is not a number that could ever exist in reality and hence this anomaly is considered irrelevant in many branches of maths that deal with real quantities rather than abstract theory.

To which you responded "blah, blah, blah it's been proved, disprove it" (paraphrasing). Not the most sensible grown up response now, was it?

Last edited by Bertster7 (2006-11-30 17:00:22)

2006-11-30 17:20:55
weamo8
Member
+50|6653|USA
This is too much to get into, but I would suggest that any of you who are really interested in this subject go to your local library and get the PBS documentary called "The Fifty Years War."  It is about 4 or 5 hours long, but after watching it a couple of times, you will know more about this subject than anyone in this thread.

I've read plenty about this conflict, but in this video you will actually hear interviews from people like Ariel Sharon and Yaser Arafat.  I guarantee it will change your perspective.

Sorry to interrupt the thread, but if you are interested in this, you will not regret watching this documentary.
2006-11-30 17:59:12
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6792|SE London

weamo8 wrote:

This is too much to get into, but I would suggest that any of you who are really interested in this subject go to your local library and get the PBS documentary called "The Fifty Years War."  It is about 4 or 5 hours long, but after watching it a couple of times, you will know more about this subject than anyone in this thread.

I've read plenty about this conflict, but in this video you will actually hear interviews from people like Ariel Sharon and Yaser Arafat.  I guarantee it will change your perspective.

Sorry to interrupt the thread, but if you are interested in this, you will not regret watching this documentary.
Always interesting to look at something from a fresh perspective. I'll watch it tomorrow.

Cheers for the advice.
2006-12-01 01:40:04
Fancy_Pollux
Connoisseur of Fine Wine
+1,306|6856

Bertster7 wrote:

Why are you trying to defend terrorists? Israel targets civilians in terrorist attacks. Is that okay to you?
And here we are, back to square one. Israel targets terrorists and Qassam rocket launch sites which happen to be embedded in civilian neighborhoods. You are trying to label collateral damage, an inevitable factor in any war, as terrorism. I just don't understand why you people are so intent on referring to Israel as a "terrorist state" when the Palestinian government officially sponsors terrorism and targets civilian neighborhoods. Bombing a Qassam rocket launch site is much different than intentionally launching rockets targeting civilians or suicide bombing large crowds or buses filled with civilians. Again, this collateral damage from Israeli attacks is inevitable because a conventional army is fighting an enemy that engages in asymmetrical warfare. I just don't understand how you people cannot grasp the fact that when a government embeds their military in civilian structures, they are endangering their civilians, and therefore responsible for civilian casualties. Israel does not deliberately target large civilian crowds with bombing attacks nor target civilian structures directly. It is a simple fact of war, and your extreme bias prevents you from making that distinction.

So this time, instead of just rewording my lines from "Palestine targets civilians in terrorist attacks" to "Israel targets civilians in terrorist attacks", actually address the issue I have brought forth. Are you denying that Palestine embeds its militants in civilian structures? Or do you just choose to look over that fact because it completely counters your argument? And are you denying that Palestine directly targets the Israeli civilian population? And finally, are you actually suggesting that Israel is simply targeting random civilian structures and that it has nothing to do with the fact that rocket attacks were made from these structures targeting civilian neighborhoods?
2006-12-01 02:27:26
SpaceApollyon
Scratch where it itches
+41|6730|Finland

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Why are you trying to defend terrorists? Israel targets civilians in terrorist attacks. Is that okay to you?
You are trying to label collateral damage, an inevitable factor in any war, as terrorism.
For me its the amount of collateral damage that makes the difference. It seems that they are mainly killing civilians there. Either they dont care or its deliberate.

Israel's modus operandi: 100,000 unexploded cluster bomblets
2006-12-01 05:16:42
JahManRed
wank
+646|6838|IRELAND

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

And finally, are you actually suggesting that Israel is simply targeting random civilian structures and that it has nothing to do with the fact that rocket attacks were made from these structures targeting civilian neighborhoods?
I thought this thread was about Palestine and Israel but you continually mention Qassam rocket launch sites and suicide bombings in the same sentence. Qassam=Lebanon conflict and Suicide= Palestine conflict.

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

Israel does not deliberately target large civilian crowds with bombing attacks nor target civilian structures directly
Israel blew the entire Lebanese civilian infrastructure to bits in its last incursion into Lebanon. Collectively punishing the entire nation for the actions of a few.
Pollox its easy for you sitting in your comfortable air-conditioned house to agree with the collective punishment of a whole nation. If you were dropped on the ground for the day and seen with your own eyes the devastation, I'm sure you would be more sympathetic.

I know you are going to say I am bias etc so I will explain why I have the views I have. Its nothing to do with anti semitism but from experience. Something you clearly don't have in the matter, forming your opinion from clearly bias sources. I hate the Israeli government's approach to the problems in the middle east because I was born and brought up in a sectarian conflict zone very similar to the Israeli Palestinian war. The year I was born the troubles in my country started. For a population of 1.5million we had for 25 years the most active terrorist organizations on earth operating within our borders, killing our people. I personally have seen two men blown up and watched the flames shot out of their eye sockets as their corpses burned. These atrocities were carried out by a small proportion of our population. The IRA killed hundreds more British citizens, solders and army personnel than Hezbollah or Hamas has ever done to Israel. Briefly the British government introduced Internment, detainment without trial, exactly as the Israeli's continue to do now. It was the biggest disaster to this country, as it seen the Ranks of the IRA increase 10 fold over night, bringing 100s of disillusioned young people running into the arms of extremists, same today in Palestine. Top IRA commanders seen Internment as the best thing to happen for them and their cause. The British brought in a shot to kill policy. This meant anyone suspected of being an IRA terrorist was to be gunned down without trial or questioning. Again a PR disaster for the British as they assassinated unarmed suspected terrorists in full view of the public. But still the British did not bomb us from the air, blow up our power stations, oil refineries, drop millions of cluster bombs on our streets, build walls around us, why? Because Britain is a civilized rational nation these days and the people were outraged by the British tactics in Northern Ireland as were the people of Northern Ireland and after us all banging our heads against a brick was for 25 years proper dialog was introduced involving neighboring countries and all the parties on a level footing.
Now we have peace. So clearly the cease fires worked. Yes our cease fires broke on many occasions by both sides, but they weren't abandoned, they were worked on and now I am happy to raise my children in this country, were as before I was intent on immigrating, as I didn't want my children to be brought up in a war zone.
Try and put yourself in the people of Palestine's shoes. Look at it from both perspectives.
2006-12-01 05:24:19
Fancy_Pollux
Connoisseur of Fine Wine
+1,306|6856

JahManRed wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

And finally, are you actually suggesting that Israel is simply targeting random civilian structures and that it has nothing to do with the fact that rocket attacks were made from these structures targeting civilian neighborhoods?
I thought this thread was about Palestine and Israel but you continually mention Qassam rocket launch sites and suicide bombings in the same sentence. Qassam=Lebanon conflict and Suicide= Palestine conflict.
I stopped reading your post there. Somebody please produce an argument that I can at least consider as debate-worthy. Don't make up facts. Don't deny facts. And please, learn something before you post.

The Qassam rocket (also Kassam) is a simple home-made steel rocket filled with explosives, produced by the Palestinian Hamas movement. Three models have been used. Although they are sometimes referred to as missiles, they are free-flight artillery rockets lacking any guidance system.

The Gaza Strip, from which all but one of the Qassams have been launched, is surrounded by a security barrier and is sometime free of Israeli soldiers. However, Qaasam rockets, were fired regulary, even prior to the withdrawl of Israeli settlements. Palestinian militants have had difficulty launching the rockets from outside Gaza. The Qassam is intended to travel over the barrier and strike Israeli targets outside the strip.

Last edited by Fancy_Pollux (2006-12-01 05:29:04)

2006-12-01 05:49:44
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6967|Argentina

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

JahManRed wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

And finally, are you actually suggesting that Israel is simply targeting random civilian structures and that it has nothing to do with the fact that rocket attacks were made from these structures targeting civilian neighborhoods?
I thought this thread was about Palestine and Israel but you continually mention Qassam rocket launch sites and suicide bombings in the same sentence. Qassam=Lebanon conflict and Suicide= Palestine conflict.
I stopped reading your post there. Somebody please produce an argument that I can at least consider as debate-worthy. Don't make up facts. Don't deny facts. And please, learn something before you post.

The Qassam rocket (also Kassam) is a simple home-made steel rocket filled with explosives, produced by the Palestinian Hamas movement. Three models have been used. Although they are sometimes referred to as missiles, they are free-flight artillery rockets lacking any guidance system.

The Gaza Strip, from which all but one of the Qassams have been launched, is surrounded by a security barrier and is sometime free of Israeli soldiers. However, Qaasam rockets, were fired regulary, even prior to the withdrawl of Israeli settlements. Palestinian militants have had difficulty launching the rockets from outside Gaza. The Qassam is intended to travel over the barrier and strike Israeli targets outside the strip.
Your point is...
Palestinian weapons are a piece of shit?  Their rockets don't have guidance system?  Those are the weapons they have at the moment.  Israel has top notch weapons, and they still kill a lot more innocent people than Palestine. 
The only one here denying facts is you.  You are lowering the level of the debate with your lack of knowledge on the issue and your arrogant replies.
2006-12-01 05:54:49
Fancy_Pollux
Connoisseur of Fine Wine
+1,306|6856

sergeriver wrote:

Your point is...
Palestinian weapons are a piece of shit?  Their rockets don't have guidance system?  Those are the weapons they have at the moment.  Israel has top notch weapons, and they still kill a lot more innocent people than Palestine. 
The only one here denying facts is you.  You are lowering the level of the debate with your lack of knowledge on the issue and your arrogant replies.
You people are dense. Look at the context in which I posted that. JahManRed said that Qassam rockets are unique to the Lebanon conflict. I was simply correcting him and providing him information on what a Qassam rocket is, where they originated from, and who uses them. How could you read that and think the whole point of it was to make fun of Palestinian weapons? Yet you accuse me of "lowering the level of the debate with your lack of knowledge on the issue and your arrogant replies".  Amazing...

The irony is overwhelming.

Last edited by Fancy_Pollux (2006-12-01 06:54:26)

2006-12-01 06:56:23
JahManRed
wank
+646|6838|IRELAND

I'm am fully aware of what a qassam rocket is and what a Katyusha rocket is.
I debate using my knowledge and findings from various media sources, not a google search, copy and paste.
Occasionally I get it wrong and I hold my hands up when I do. And on this occasion I apologize because I got  Katyusha and Kassam Rockets mixed up. Sorry but my Arabic is not so good. I should really use google instead of my brain.
2006-12-01 08:13:16
[UTQ]_Ausch88
Banned
+23|6705
questions for pollux

what do you think about the illegal settlements in the westbank? all the checkpoints the palestionians have to go tru on their OWN land?

also what is you opinion about all the UN resolutions against ISRAEL?  are they all anti-semite?
2006-12-01 08:18:57
Fancy_Pollux
Connoisseur of Fine Wine
+1,306|6856

[UTQ]_Ausch88 wrote:

questions for pollux

what do you think about the illegal settlements in the westbank? all the checkpoints the palestionians have to go tru on their OWN land?

also what is you opinion about all the UN resolutions against ISRAEL?  are they all anti-semite?
I will not acknowledge any posts you make. Refer to this:

[UTQ]_Ausch88 wrote:

ISRAELIS are disgusting.. i support the fight of the palestinians.. and hope in the near future that they will be able to send all those bastard back to AMERICA or whatever country they want to infect.

GO PALESTINIA

GO HEZBOLLAH

AND GO IRAN

clean your land of this infection
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=54295
2006-12-01 09:09:17
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6967|Argentina

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

Your point is...
Palestinian weapons are a piece of shit?  Their rockets don't have guidance system?  Those are the weapons they have at the moment.  Israel has top notch weapons, and they still kill a lot more innocent people than Palestine. 
The only one here denying facts is you.  You are lowering the level of the debate with your lack of knowledge on the issue and your arrogant replies.
You people are dense. Look at the context in which I posted that. JahManRed said that Qassam rockets are unique to the Lebanon conflict. I was simply correcting him and providing him information on what a Qassam rocket is, where they originated from, and who uses them. How could you read that and think the whole point of it was to make fun of Palestinian weapons? Yet you accuse me of "lowering the level of the debate with your lack of knowledge on the issue and your arrogant replies".  Amazing...

The irony is overwhelming.
Well, in the same post you complained "Somebody please produce an argument that I can at least consider as debate-worthy."  You obviously were saying that nobody's capable to produce an argument worthy of you. 
Then with more arrogancy you replied "Yet you accuse me of <this is what I said>lowering the level of the debate with your lack of knowledge on the issue and your arrogant replies.</this is what I said>  Amazing...The irony is overwhelming."
2006-12-01 09:19:32
Fancy_Pollux
Connoisseur of Fine Wine
+1,306|6856

sergeriver wrote:

Well, in the same post you complained "Somebody please produce an argument that I can at least consider as debate-worthy."  You obviously were saying that nobody's capable to produce an argument worthy of you. 
Then with more arrogancy you replied "Yet you accuse me of <this is what I said>lowering the level of the debate with your lack of knowledge on the issue and your arrogant replies.</this is what I said>  Amazing...The irony is overwhelming."
I'm amazed that you still don't get it. He replied to my post by blatantly making up facts. That kind of post is not debate-worthy. You totally missed the issue, again, and accuse me of being arrogant as a result? Correcting someone for using misinformation as debate material is not what I'd call being arrogant. All you have to do is read the posts to understand. I don't know why you are making a big deal (or any deal at all) out of this.

Last edited by Fancy_Pollux (2006-12-01 09:23:35)

2006-12-01 09:34:20
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6967|Argentina

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

Well, in the same post you complained "Somebody please produce an argument that I can at least consider as debate-worthy."  You obviously were saying that nobody's capable to produce an argument worthy of you. 
Then with more arrogance you replied "Yet you accuse me of <this is what I said>lowering the level of the debate with your lack of knowledge on the issue and your arrogant replies.</this is what I said>  Amazing...The irony is overwhelming."
I'm amazed that you still don't get it. He replied to my post by blatantly making up facts. That kind of post is not debate-worthy. You totally missed the issue, again, and accuse me of being arrogant as a result? Correcting someone for using misinformation as debate material is not what I'd call being arrogant. All you have to do is read the posts to understand. I don't know why you are making a big deal (or any deal at all) out of this.
It's the way you express about yourself and others what makes you arrogant.  You said "somebody please produce an argument that I can at least consider as debate-worthy" in the same thread where Bertster7 made a very well written post with a lot of info backed by non biased sources.  I'm not talking of any specific post, but your posts usually are written in an arrogant way, beyond if you are right or wrong.  In this case IMO you are wrong, defending Israel and attacking Palestine.  Nobody here, not me at least, wants Israel wiped.  Why is the guy dressed as a civilian a terrorist and the guy with the uniform a war hero?  That's the part I don't get.
2006-12-01 09:40:00
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6854

sergeriver wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

Well, in the same post you complained "Somebody please produce an argument that I can at least consider as debate-worthy."  You obviously were saying that nobody's capable to produce an argument worthy of you. 
Then with more arrogance you replied "Yet you accuse me of <this is what I said>lowering the level of the debate with your lack of knowledge on the issue and your arrogant replies.</this is what I said>  Amazing...The irony is overwhelming."
I'm amazed that you still don't get it. He replied to my post by blatantly making up facts. That kind of post is not debate-worthy. You totally missed the issue, again, and accuse me of being arrogant as a result? Correcting someone for using misinformation as debate material is not what I'd call being arrogant. All you have to do is read the posts to understand. I don't know why you are making a big deal (or any deal at all) out of this.
It's the way you express about yourself and others what makes you arrogant.  You said "somebody please produce an argument that I can at least consider as debate-worthy" in the same thread where Bertster7 made a very well written post with a lot of info backed by non biased sources.  I'm not talking of any specific post, but your posts usually are written in an arrogant way, beyond if you are right or wrong.  In this case IMO you are wrong, defending Israel and attacking Palestine.  Nobody here, not me at least, wants Israel wiped.  Why is the guy dressed as a civilian a terrorist and the guy with the uniform a war hero?  That's the part I don't get.
without knowing what you're really talking about Im throwing my two cents in

uniform represents what exactly it is that you do....soldier.  on the other hand you got these peice of shit terrorist who stay in civies so they could blend in with the population that isnt a combatant.  thereby winning the media war when a whole bunch of  civilians gets killed because of a couple of knuckle heads who wanted that goal in the first place so their fight could have more support.
2006-12-01 09:42:24
Fancy_Pollux
Connoisseur of Fine Wine
+1,306|6856

sergeriver wrote:

It's the way you express about yourself and others what makes you arrogant.  You said "somebody please produce an argument that I can at least consider as debate-worthy" in the same thread where Bertster7 made a very well written post with a lot of info backed by non biased sources.  I'm not talking of any specific post, but your posts usually are written in an arrogant way, beyond if you are right or wrong.  In this case IMO you are wrong, defending Israel and attacking Palestine.  Nobody here, not me at least, wants Israel wiped.  Why is the guy dressed as a civilian a terrorist and the guy with the uniform a war hero?  That's the part I don't get.
Nowhere did I say that the "guy dressed as a civilian" is a terrorist. That's probably why you didn't get it...because I never said it. What I did say, however, is that Palestine's governing body officially sponsors the targeting of and terrorists attacks on the civilian population of Israel and therefore is a terrorist organization. I was a little more specific in my previous posts regarding this if you care to read them.

As far as nobody here wanting Israel wiped...well, we've all seen [UTQ]_Ausch88's posts.

Last edited by Fancy_Pollux (2006-12-01 09:43:25)

2006-12-01 09:44:35
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6967|Argentina

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:


I'm amazed that you still don't get it. He replied to my post by blatantly making up facts. That kind of post is not debate-worthy. You totally missed the issue, again, and accuse me of being arrogant as a result? Correcting someone for using misinformation as debate material is not what I'd call being arrogant. All you have to do is read the posts to understand. I don't know why you are making a big deal (or any deal at all) out of this.
It's the way you express about yourself and others what makes you arrogant.  You said "somebody please produce an argument that I can at least consider as debate-worthy" in the same thread where Bertster7 made a very well written post with a lot of info backed by non biased sources.  I'm not talking of any specific post, but your posts usually are written in an arrogant way, beyond if you are right or wrong.  In this case IMO you are wrong, defending Israel and attacking Palestine.  Nobody here, not me at least, wants Israel wiped.  Why is the guy dressed as a civilian a terrorist and the guy with the uniform a war hero?  That's the part I don't get.
without knowing what you're really talking about Im throwing my two cents in

uniform represents what exactly it is that you do....soldier.  on the other hand you got these peice of shit terrorist who stay in civies so they could blend in with the population that isnt a combatant.  thereby winning the media war when a whole bunch of  civilians gets killed because of a couple of knuckle heads who wanted that goal in the first place so their fight could have more support.
Don't take it personal.  Do you agree with Israel policies?  Forget about the soldiers following orders.  Isn't Israel promoting terrorism with its actions?  Who are we to say this guy is a terrorist and this guy is cool?  If you were Palestinian, wouldn't you fight against your oppressors?  Would you be a terrorist? (I know you aren't, just in case, lol).
2006-12-01 09:44:40
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6765

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

It's the way you express about yourself and others what makes you arrogant.  You said "somebody please produce an argument that I can at least consider as debate-worthy" in the same thread where Bertster7 made a very well written post with a lot of info backed by non biased sources.  I'm not talking of any specific post, but your posts usually are written in an arrogant way, beyond if you are right or wrong.  In this case IMO you are wrong, defending Israel and attacking Palestine.  Nobody here, not me at least, wants Israel wiped.  Why is the guy dressed as a civilian a terrorist and the guy with the uniform a war hero?  That's the part I don't get.
Nowhere did I say that the "guy dressed as a civilian" is a terrorist. That's probably why you didn't get it...because I never said it. What I did say, however, is that Palestine's governing body officially sponsors the targeting of and terrorists attacks on the civilian population of Israel and therefore is a terrorist organization. I was a little more specific in my previous posts regarding this if you care to read them.

As far as nobody here wanting Israel wiped...well, we've all seen [UTQ]_Ausch88's posts.
I don't think many of us pro-Palestinians are under any illusions as to the fact that Hamas engages in civilian-targetting acts of terror.
2006-12-01 09:52:42
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6967|Argentina

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

It's the way you express about yourself and others what makes you arrogant.  You said "somebody please produce an argument that I can at least consider as debate-worthy" in the same thread where Bertster7 made a very well written post with a lot of info backed by non biased sources.  I'm not talking of any specific post, but your posts usually are written in an arrogant way, beyond if you are right or wrong.  In this case IMO you are wrong, defending Israel and attacking Palestine.  Nobody here, not me at least, wants Israel wiped.  Why is the guy dressed as a civilian a terrorist and the guy with the uniform a war hero?  That's the part I don't get.
Nowhere did I say that the "guy dressed as a civilian" is a terrorist. That's probably why you didn't get it...because I never said it. What I did say, however, is that Palestine's governing body officially sponsors the targeting of and terrorists attacks on the civilian population of Israel and therefore is a terrorist organization. I was a little more specific in my previous posts regarding this if you care to read them.

As far as nobody here wanting Israel wiped...well, we've all seen [UTQ]_Ausch88's posts.
You didn't say the exact words, but you said that Palestine government was sponsoring terrorism, but you never said a word about Israel government doing the same.  Palestinians use homemade rockets or suicide bombers and Israel uses modern weapons.  That's why I made the comparison between the guy dressed as a civilian and the soldier.  They're both soldiers.  Both their methods are wrong.  If your country is invaded you will fight with a rock, a weapon or whatever.  I'm not saying I approve Palestinians methods, but I strongly disapprove Israelis'.
2006-12-01 09:56:43
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6854

sergeriver wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

sergeriver wrote:


It's the way you express about yourself and others what makes you arrogant.  You said "somebody please produce an argument that I can at least consider as debate-worthy" in the same thread where Bertster7 made a very well written post with a lot of info backed by non biased sources.  I'm not talking of any specific post, but your posts usually are written in an arrogant way, beyond if you are right or wrong.  In this case IMO you are wrong, defending Israel and attacking Palestine.  Nobody here, not me at least, wants Israel wiped.  Why is the guy dressed as a civilian a terrorist and the guy with the uniform a war hero?  That's the part I don't get.
without knowing what you're really talking about Im throwing my two cents in

uniform represents what exactly it is that you do....soldier.  on the other hand you got these peice of shit terrorist who stay in civies so they could blend in with the population that isnt a combatant.  thereby winning the media war when a whole bunch of  civilians gets killed because of a couple of knuckle heads who wanted that goal in the first place so their fight could have more support.
Don't take it personal.  Do you agree with Israel policies?  Forget about the soldiers following orders.  Isn't Israel promoting terrorism with its actions?  Who are we to say this guy is a terrorist and this guy is cool?  If you were Palestinian, wouldn't you fight against your oppressors?  Would you be a terrorist? (I know you aren't, just in case, lol).
just because i look like haji huh.  but my opinion on israeli policy doesnt matter.  I hate politics and politics is the driving force behind all government.  Israeli-Heavy handedness?  perhaps.  but if you were israeli surrounded by nothing but enemies, wouldnt you be glad that your government is doing what it deems necessary to remove the threat to you rpersonal life and the lives of your loved ones.  ok some say israel should have never been formed, I disagree.  but we are in the current modern times and israel aint going nowhere.  to debate the reasoning behind the formation of israel is folly.  try convincing an israeli of the new modern generation they have no right to be there because that aint so.  Thats the land of their birth as is the United States is mine and I will do anything humanly possible to keep Americans, domestic and abroad, from dying.  Thats what i see Israel doing.  Is it effective? maybe not.  all i see is the constant circle of violence, misery, suffering and death so I guess nothing is really working.  But when you have paramilitary organizations that operate independent of the Palestinian government, fuck em...let the bodies hit the floor.  Who should the civilians blame, the terrorist ofcourse!  who do the civilians blame, the Israelis.  But if you are israeli, and lets be pragmatic,  100 pales aint worth one israeli life. if your pale, same thing goes.  who to blame, the Israeli war machine or the people that are forcing the israeli war machine to respond.
2006-12-01 09:58:37
SpaceApollyon
Scratch where it itches
+41|6730|Finland

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

Israel does not deliberately target large civilian crowds with bombing attacks nor target civilian structures directly
Why would you state such a thing, when in reality its clearly quite the opposite?

Israeli action in the Second Lebanon War

"During the campaign, Israel's Air Force flew more than 12,000 combat missions. The Navy fired 2,500 shells, and the Army fired over 100,000 shells [43], destroying large parts of the Lebanese civilian infrastructure. 400 miles of roads, 73 bridges and 31 targets such as Beirut International Airport, ports, water and sewage treatment plants, electrical facilities, 25 fuel stations, 900 commercial structures, up to 350 schools and two hospitals were destroyed, as well as some 15,000 homes. Some 130,000 more homes were damaged."
2006-12-01 10:01:51
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6854

SpaceApollyon wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

Israel does not deliberately target large civilian crowds with bombing attacks nor target civilian structures directly
Why would you state such a thing, when in reality its clearly quite the opposite?

Israeli action in the Second Lebanon War

"During the campaign, Israel's Air Force flew more than 12,000 combat missions. The Navy fired 2,500 shells, and the Army fired over 100,000 shells [43], destroying large parts of the Lebanese civilian infrastructure. 400 miles of roads, 73 bridges and 31 targets such as Beirut International Airport, ports, water and sewage treatment plants, electrical facilities, 25 fuel stations, 900 commercial structures, up to 350 schools and two hospitals were destroyed, as well as some 15,000 homes. Some 130,000 more homes were damaged."
oh yeah, hezbohlah was far away out in fields waiting for the israeli army to meet them just like william wallace....get real.
2006-12-01 10:04:12
SpaceApollyon
Scratch where it itches
+41|6730|Finland

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

SpaceApollyon wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

Israel does not deliberately target large civilian crowds with bombing attacks nor target civilian structures directly
Why would you state such a thing, when in reality its clearly quite the opposite?

Israeli action in the Second Lebanon War

"During the campaign, Israel's Air Force flew more than 12,000 combat missions. The Navy fired 2,500 shells, and the Army fired over 100,000 shells [43], destroying large parts of the Lebanese civilian infrastructure. 400 miles of roads, 73 bridges and 31 targets such as Beirut International Airport, ports, water and sewage treatment plants, electrical facilities, 25 fuel stations, 900 commercial structures, up to 350 schools and two hospitals were destroyed, as well as some 15,000 homes. Some 130,000 more homes were damaged."
oh yeah, hezbohlah was far away out in fields waiting for the israeli army to meet them just like william wallace....get real.
Are you saying that they were in those schools and sewage treatment plants?
2006-12-01 10:06:04
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6854

SpaceApollyon wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

SpaceApollyon wrote:


Why would you state such a thing, when in reality its clearly quite the opposite?

Israeli action in the Second Lebanon War

"During the campaign, Israel's Air Force flew more than 12,000 combat missions. The Navy fired 2,500 shells, and the Army fired over 100,000 shells [43], destroying large parts of the Lebanese civilian infrastructure. 400 miles of roads, 73 bridges and 31 targets such as Beirut International Airport, ports, water and sewage treatment plants, electrical facilities, 25 fuel stations, 900 commercial structures, up to 350 schools and two hospitals were destroyed, as well as some 15,000 homes. Some 130,000 more homes were damaged."
oh yeah, hezbohlah was far away out in fields waiting for the israeli army to meet them just like william wallace....get real.
Are you saying that they were in those schools and sewage treatment plants?
im saying these fuckers blend in with the infrastructure, firing rockets next to schools and homes.  they do this so people like you could say Israelis are evil baby killers who wipe the blood off their boots with human skin.  mission accomplished, eh?

 

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