IG-Calibre
comhalta
+226|6748|Tír Eoghan, Tuaisceart Éireann
Really, the Iraq security forces seem to be actively conducting the killing of US forces in the country, yet America seems intent that they are the answer to the countries problems, what do you reckon?

Before the night erupted in violence, it was unusually quiet in the Karbala government compound where American troops and Iraqi police were encamped Jan. 20, according to a previously undisclosed Army investigation.
That night, insurgents wearing U.S. uniforms managed to get past Iraqi police, storm two buildings and abduct four soldiers, whom they later killed. The ease with which the insurgents entered the base jarred the U.S. military. Last week, Pentagon officials accused the Iranian government of training the attackers.

On that Saturday night, U.S. soldiers relaxed on their cots listening to music, watching videos or instant messaging family at home. 1st Lt. Jacob Fritz, 25, of Verdon, Neb., sat at his laptop computer in his room. He had just loaned another soldier his copy of the movie Miami Vice. Pfc. Shawn Falter, 25, of Cortland, N.Y., grabbed a sandwich before joining Spc. Johnathan Chism, 22, of Gonzales, La., for sentry duty in a Humvee at the front gate.

Iraqi police usually filled the compound. But that evening, mysteriously none was there, according to Army investigators. Iraqi vendors had suddenly closed up shop and gone home early. Investigators now suspect Iraqi police secretly cooperated with an Iranian-trained assault force.

About 6 p.m., a column of five to seven SUVs moved toward the government center. The SUVs had false antennas to make them look like Pentagon contractor vehicles, the report says. The men inside spoke English, wore American uniforms and helmets and appeared to be armed with U.S. weapons, investigators were told.

FIND MORE STORIES IN: Iraq | American | Army | Pentagon | Iranian government
Iraqi checkpoint guards either let them pass or were disarmed at gunpoint, according to the investigation. "The attackers, pretending to be American, used short U.S. phrases that the IPs (Iraqi police) could understand: 'Sit down,' 'Stop,' 'Go,' " the report says. "The insurgents moved and spoke like Americans and acted as if their presence at the (headquarters) was a normal occurrence."

The column apparently divided as it approached the central compound with two SUVs heading for an inner gate guarded by Falter and Chism. Several soldiers disembarked and walked toward the sentries. Smiling, nodding and exchanging pleasantries, they walked right by Falter before one turned and shot Falter in the back, the report says.

Another gunman jumped on the Humvee and fired at Chism and wounded him. "Chism had no chance to react," the report says.

Both men were believed to still be alive when they were placed in the SUVs.

The attackers then struck the Provisional Joint Coordination Center and a nearby barracks housing Americans, the investigators say.

Aware that the U.S. defensive drill was to go the roofs of the buildings, the attackers used grenades that led officers to pull troops back inside the buildings, according to the report. Adding to the confusion was .50-caliber ammunition that began exploding inside one of the U.S. Humvees blown up by the attackers.

"The explosions were so loud and close it rumbled the building, shattered the windows and also knocked a few of us on our (backsides)," one soldier, whose name was blacked out, told investigators.

Gunmen entering the center's first floor headed for the only two rooms containing Americans, the communication center and a room shared by Fritz and Army Capt. Brian Freeman, 31, of Temecula, Calif. Using concussion grenades and automatic weapons, they tried to force their way inside the center where there were five GIs.

One was Army Pfc. Johnathon Millican, 20, of Locust Fork, Ala. As one soldier tried to bar the door, an attacker threw what investigators believe was a concussion grenade inside the room. Millican, the report says, "fell on it when it came to a stop."

He blocked the explosion with his body, but was killed by bullets fired into the room. Saved from the concussive blast, the other soldiers fended off the attackers, the report says.

Last week, Millican was posthumously awarded a Silver Star for his bravery.

'The attackers abducted Fritz and Freeman, who were possibly stunned by a second concussion grenade thrown into their room, the report says. Fritz's laptop was taken.

The attackers then quickly left the compound with their captives in handcuffs. "There is compelling evidence," the investigative report says, "that all four resisted to the best of their ability and were still alive when taken."

The gunmen later abandoned their vehicles in a rural area. Three of the captive were found there shot to death. A fourth, Freeman, was still alive, but mortally wounded and later died en route to a hospital. Not a single Iraqi was hurt during the attack, the report says/
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington … tion_N.htm
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6535|Global Command
I reckon the enemy is everywhere.

Frankly, it's fubar.
8fate8
Member
+0|6151

ATG wrote:

I reckon the enemy is everywhere.

Frankly, it's fubar.
agreed
fadedsteve
GOP Sympathizer
+266|6497|Menlo Park, CA
Dont you wish we had the mentality of WWII where we could just fire fuck bomb the entire joint. . . . .

Ya know. . . . . napalm on insurgent filled cities, and see if they want to continue to resist!!

Germany's cities were completely destroyed, and they have seemed to have recovered nicely. . . .same with Japan!!  Whats all this bullshit about protecting religious sites and homes/buildings etc??   In war you fight to win, and if you dont fucking destroy everything how the fuck are you going to claim victory??? 

Our country has become so politically correct that we dont even want our military to win!!! Its like we want to enemy to be able to put up a fight!Its beyond me. . . . . If George Patton was alive today, he would be going apeshit at the way our military is conducting this war!!

You think the Russians would have been able to take Berlin the way they did, if they didnt blow up the whole fucking city?? Bomb it into absolute submission???  Granted they gave up a lot of casualties, but Germany was DONE after they got finished! Iraq isnt DONE by any stretch of the imagination. . . . . Its rife with terrorists plotting and killing people!! Its unbelievable. . . .
m3thod
All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz
+2,197|6677|UK
^i'm glad your not in charge
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
SgtSlutter
Banned
+550|6644|Amsterdam, NY

m3thod wrote:

^i'm glad your not in charge
because u want america to lose in Iraq maybe?
Ottomania
Troll has returned.
+62|6527|Istanbul-Turkey

fadedsteve wrote:

Dont you wish we had the mentality of WWII where we could just fire fuck bomb the entire joint. . . . .

Ya know. . . . . napalm on insurgent filled cities, and see if they want to continue to resist!!

Germany's cities were completely destroyed, and they have seemed to have recovered nicely. . . .same with Japan!!  Whats all this bullshit about protecting religious sites and homes/buildings etc??   In war you fight to win, and if you dont fucking destroy everything how the fuck are you going to claim victory??? 

Our country has become so politically correct that we dont even want our military to win!!! Its like we want to enemy to be able to put up a fight!Its beyond me. . . . . If George Patton was alive today, he would be going apeshit at the way our military is conducting this war!!

You think the Russians would have been able to take Berlin the way they did, if they didnt blow up the whole fucking city?? Bomb it into absolute submission???  Granted they gave up a lot of casualties, but Germany was DONE after they got finished! Iraq isnt DONE by any stretch of the imagination. . . . . Its rife with terrorists plotting and killing people!! Its unbelievable. . . .
omg... you went there to bring freedom to unhappy people. also with this style of thinking you have no difference from nazis.

Last edited by Ottomania (2007-07-12 15:53:36)

Miller
IT'S MILLER TIME!
+271|6762|United States of America

fadedsteve wrote:

Dont you wish we had the mentality of WWII where we could just fire fuck bomb the entire joint. . . . .

Ya know. . . . . napalm on insurgent filled cities, and see if they want to continue to resist!!

Germany's cities were completely destroyed, and they have seemed to have recovered nicely. . . .same with Japan!!  Whats all this bullshit about protecting religious sites and homes/buildings etc??   In war you fight to win, and if you dont fucking destroy everything how the fuck are you going to claim victory??? 

Our country has become so politically correct that we dont even want our military to win!!! Its like we want to enemy to be able to put up a fight!Its beyond me. . . . . If George Patton was alive today, he would be going apeshit at the way our military is conducting this war!!

You think the Russians would have been able to take Berlin the way they did, if they didnt blow up the whole fucking city?? Bomb it into absolute submission???  Granted they gave up a lot of casualties, but Germany was DONE after they got finished! Iraq isnt DONE by any stretch of the imagination. . . . . Its rife with terrorists plotting and killing people!! Its unbelievable. . . .
I like your thinking.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6535|Global Command

m3thod wrote:

^i'm glad your not in charge
I'm not.

We need people like Steve in power. Seriously.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6722
Napalm sticks on kids.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Skruples
Mod Incarnate
+234|6707
Maybe we should have carpet bombed Mogadishu and Darfur, while we're at it. In fact, there are few conflicts anywhere that couldn't be solved by simply killing everyone involved, no?

The situation in Iraq is nothing like world war 2. Tactics that were used in WWII aren't going to help here, and would likely exacerbate a situation that is already pretty bad. Iraq is compared to Vietnam for good reason, and, if you recall, we were pretty into 'fire fuck bombing' things in vietnam and that didn't help much. Granted, Vietnam doesn't have the population centers that Iraq does, but it's still a horrible idea. Honestly, the mentality of 'lets just kill them all so they'll stop fighting us' is so ludicrously close to the mentality of the terrorists that its a little frightening. We're supposed to be the good guys, remember?

Really, you're not military strategists. I, too, am glad that neither steve or myself is in charge of such decisions, because few, if any of us are even remotely qualified to make those calls. You might as well go into a hospital and start telling surgeons where to cut...

If any of you would like to educate yourselves some, why not go look up what the Russian military (largely underequipped, undertrained conscripts at that point. Sound familiar?) did to the Germans after they destroyed and occupied Stalingrad.
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6650

IG-Calibre wrote:

Really, the Iraq security forces seem to be actively conducting the killing of US forces in the country, yet America seems intent that they are the answer to the countries problems, what do you reckon?

Before the night erupted in violence, it was unusually quiet in the Karbala government compound where American troops and Iraqi police were encamped Jan. 20, according to a previously undisclosed Army investigation.
That night, insurgents wearing U.S. uniforms managed to get past Iraqi police, storm two buildings and abduct four soldiers, whom they later killed. The ease with which the insurgents entered the base jarred the U.S. military. Last week, Pentagon officials accused the Iranian government of training the attackers.

On that Saturday night, U.S. soldiers relaxed on their cots listening to music, watching videos or instant messaging family at home. 1st Lt. Jacob Fritz, 25, of Verdon, Neb., sat at his laptop computer in his room. He had just loaned another soldier his copy of the movie Miami Vice. Pfc. Shawn Falter, 25, of Cortland, N.Y., grabbed a sandwich before joining Spc. Johnathan Chism, 22, of Gonzales, La., for sentry duty in a Humvee at the front gate.

Iraqi police usually filled the compound. But that evening, mysteriously none was there, according to Army investigators. Iraqi vendors had suddenly closed up shop and gone home early. Investigators now suspect Iraqi police secretly cooperated with an Iranian-trained assault force.

About 6 p.m., a column of five to seven SUVs moved toward the government center. The SUVs had false antennas to make them look like Pentagon contractor vehicles, the report says. The men inside spoke English, wore American uniforms and helmets and appeared to be armed with U.S. weapons, investigators were told.

FIND MORE STORIES IN: Iraq | American | Army | Pentagon | Iranian government
Iraqi checkpoint guards either let them pass or were disarmed at gunpoint, according to the investigation. "The attackers, pretending to be American, used short U.S. phrases that the IPs (Iraqi police) could understand: 'Sit down,' 'Stop,' 'Go,' " the report says. "The insurgents moved and spoke like Americans and acted as if their presence at the (headquarters) was a normal occurrence."

The column apparently divided as it approached the central compound with two SUVs heading for an inner gate guarded by Falter and Chism. Several soldiers disembarked and walked toward the sentries. Smiling, nodding and exchanging pleasantries, they walked right by Falter before one turned and shot Falter in the back, the report says.

Another gunman jumped on the Humvee and fired at Chism and wounded him. "Chism had no chance to react," the report says.

Both men were believed to still be alive when they were placed in the SUVs.

The attackers then struck the Provisional Joint Coordination Center and a nearby barracks housing Americans, the investigators say.

Aware that the U.S. defensive drill was to go the roofs of the buildings, the attackers used grenades that led officers to pull troops back inside the buildings, according to the report. Adding to the confusion was .50-caliber ammunition that began exploding inside one of the U.S. Humvees blown up by the attackers.

"The explosions were so loud and close it rumbled the building, shattered the windows and also knocked a few of us on our (backsides)," one soldier, whose name was blacked out, told investigators.

Gunmen entering the center's first floor headed for the only two rooms containing Americans, the communication center and a room shared by Fritz and Army Capt. Brian Freeman, 31, of Temecula, Calif. Using concussion grenades and automatic weapons, they tried to force their way inside the center where there were five GIs.

One was Army Pfc. Johnathon Millican, 20, of Locust Fork, Ala. As one soldier tried to bar the door, an attacker threw what investigators believe was a concussion grenade inside the room. Millican, the report says, "fell on it when it came to a stop."

He blocked the explosion with his body, but was killed by bullets fired into the room. Saved from the concussive blast, the other soldiers fended off the attackers, the report says.

Last week, Millican was posthumously awarded a Silver Star for his bravery.

'The attackers abducted Fritz and Freeman, who were possibly stunned by a second concussion grenade thrown into their room, the report says. Fritz's laptop was taken.

The attackers then quickly left the compound with their captives in handcuffs. "There is compelling evidence," the investigative report says, "that all four resisted to the best of their ability and were still alive when taken."

The gunmen later abandoned their vehicles in a rural area. Three of the captive were found there shot to death. A fourth, Freeman, was still alive, but mortally wounded and later died en route to a hospital. Not a single Iraqi was hurt during the attack, the report says/
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington … tion_N.htm
actually, word around the campfire is that the people who orchestrated this raid, snatch and grab were members of the quds force...Iranian.

furthermore, it was the Iraqi police who were repsponsible to chasing the getaway car and forcing them to leave the area on foot after they executed the CA officer they had in custody. when I heard about this I was surprised at the fact that the Iraqi police were actually doing their job.  They noticed this group of vehicles not slowing down at a checkpoint and proceeded to give chase.  Again, this is coming from my camp fire ::hint::


these guys, as reported, were wearing western clothing and tactical gear.  They had, as reported, blond hair and blue eyes.  They were rolling around an up-armored suburban.

Last edited by GunSlinger OIF II (2007-07-12 19:47:20)

ATG
Banned
+5,233|6535|Global Command

Ottomania wrote:

fadedsteve wrote:

Dont you wish we had the mentality of WWII where we could just fire fuck bomb the entire joint. . . . .

Ya know. . . . . napalm on insurgent filled cities, and see if they want to continue to resist!!

Germany's cities were completely destroyed, and they have seemed to have recovered nicely. . . .same with Japan!!  Whats all this bullshit about protecting religious sites and homes/buildings etc??   In war you fight to win, and if you dont fucking destroy everything how the fuck are you going to claim victory??? 

Our country has become so politically correct that we dont even want our military to win!!! Its like we want to enemy to be able to put up a fight!Its beyond me. . . . . If George Patton was alive today, he would be going apeshit at the way our military is conducting this war!!

You think the Russians would have been able to take Berlin the way they did, if they didnt blow up the whole fucking city?? Bomb it into absolute submission???  Granted they gave up a lot of casualties, but Germany was DONE after they got finished! Iraq isnt DONE by any stretch of the imagination. . . . . Its rife with terrorists plotting and killing people!! Its unbelievable. . . .
omg... you went there to bring freedom to unhappy people. also with this style of thinking you have no difference from nazis.
DO NOT FUCKING COMPARE FADED STEVES MUSING TO MOTHER FUCKING NAZIS YOU PRICK, THAT IS WAY, WAY OVER THE MOTHER FUCKING LINE AND IF I WAS A DOUCHE I WOULD REPORT IT.


GODMOTHERFUCKINGDAMNIT THAT PISSES ME OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
fadedsteve
GOP Sympathizer
+266|6497|Menlo Park, CA

Ottomania wrote:

fadedsteve wrote:

Dont you wish we had the mentality of WWII where we could just fire fuck bomb the entire joint. . . . .

Ya know. . . . . napalm on insurgent filled cities, and see if they want to continue to resist!!

Germany's cities were completely destroyed, and they have seemed to have recovered nicely. . . .same with Japan!!  Whats all this bullshit about protecting religious sites and homes/buildings etc??   In war you fight to win, and if you dont fucking destroy everything how the fuck are you going to claim victory??? 

Our country has become so politically correct that we dont even want our military to win!!! Its like we want to enemy to be able to put up a fight!Its beyond me. . . . . If George Patton was alive today, he would be going apeshit at the way our military is conducting this war!!

You think the Russians would have been able to take Berlin the way they did, if they didnt blow up the whole fucking city?? Bomb it into absolute submission???  Granted they gave up a lot of casualties, but Germany was DONE after they got finished! Iraq isnt DONE by any stretch of the imagination. . . . . Its rife with terrorists plotting and killing people!! Its unbelievable. . . .
omg... you went there to bring freedom to unhappy people. also with this style of thinking you have no difference from nazis.
Ummm not quite. . . . . .Not at all actually! I am no where near a Nazi in any sense of the word. 

You do realize the US and the British Air Force carpet bombed German cities at will. . . . So they are considered Nazi's now??

War is not pretty, its not cute, and its not politically correct in any sense of the imagination.  Now with that out of the way. . . .

When war is waged by anyone, it needs to be waged decisively and with the full brunt of your capability.  The USA has not waged this war decisively or with the full brunt of its capabilities, thats why we are where we are today in Iraq.  If the US waged war like it should, Iraq should have be leveled (like Germany and Japan) and rebuilt, pure and simple.   I am not a savage nor am I insensitive, I am just speaking the truth about how combat is generally won. . . . . Look at all major invasions in modern history, all successful ones were won due to the complete and utter destruction of a fighting force.  We have not obtained the full and utter destruction of the fighting force in Iraq, and that is due to our politicians being too politically correct when it comes to the one thing they shouldnt be politically correct about.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6535|Global Command
Fadedsteve for potus.


I'm serious.
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6650

Ottomania wrote:

omg... you went there to bring freedom to unhappy people. also with this style of thinking you have no difference from nazis.
tell me again how turkey defeated the evil armenians
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6722

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

Ottomania wrote:

omg... you went there to bring freedom to unhappy people. also with this style of thinking you have no difference from nazis.
tell me again how turkey defeated the evil armenians
Using the massacres.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Elamdri
The New Johnnie Cochran
+134|6653|Peoria
I say bring the rain.
crimson_grunt
Shitty Disposition (apparently)
+214|6660|Teesside, UK

ATG wrote:

Fadedsteve for potus.


I'm serious.
If you are being serious then you terrify me.
m3thod
All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz
+2,197|6677|UK

SgtSlauther wrote:

m3thod wrote:

^i'm glad your not in charge
because u want america to lose in Iraq maybe?
well maybe one should recognise that the US is currently riding the slippery slope downwards towards the checkered flag of failure....

And i still don't see how the wholesale destruction of Iraq using WW2 Patton strategy would have helped?

Last edited by m3thod (2007-07-13 03:12:35)

Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6722

m3thod wrote:

SgtSlauther wrote:

m3thod wrote:

^i'm glad your not in charge
because u want america to lose in Iraq maybe?
well maybe one should recognise that the US is currently riding the slippery slope downwards towards the checkered flag of failure....

And i still don't see how the wholesale destruction of Iraq using WW2 Patton strategy would have helped?
Do you think without daily air raids the Allies would've won? Since whens the last time there was an Air Raid in Iraq. I'm talking about leveling down an entire city. By doing so, you can install fear in your enemies and they would have near zero morale.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
elstonieo
Oil 4 Euros not $$$
+20|6344|EsSeX

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

m3thod wrote:

SgtSlauther wrote:


because u want america to lose in Iraq maybe?
well maybe one should recognise that the US is currently riding the slippery slope downwards towards the checkered flag of failure....

And i still don't see how the wholesale destruction of Iraq using WW2 Patton strategy would have helped?
Do you think without daily air raids the Allies would've won? Since whens the last time there was an Air Raid in Iraq. I'm talking about leveling down an entire city. By doing so, you can install fear in your enemies and they would have near zero morale.
sounds like what saddam did to the kurds
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6722

elstonieo wrote:

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

m3thod wrote:


well maybe one should recognise that the US is currently riding the slippery slope downwards towards the checkered flag of failure....

And i still don't see how the wholesale destruction of Iraq using WW2 Patton strategy would have helped?
Do you think without daily air raids the Allies would've won? Since whens the last time there was an Air Raid in Iraq. I'm talking about leveling down an entire city. By doing so, you can install fear in your enemies and they would have near zero morale.
sounds like what saddam did to the kurds
And was there people shooting each other on the streets? When Saddam was in power, Iraq was a lot safer.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6627|London, England
You can't compare it to WW2. As the general consensus was that they all supported the Nazi regime whereas there in Iraq it seems different with everyone seemingly blowing everyone up.

Besides, the only thing we have different from the terrorists is that we don't kill civilians without remorse (officially....). If we did that then i'm sorry i'd have to abandon my respect for my armed forces. Regardless of how much i dislike the religion of Islam and how brave i think our armed forces are.

I've also lost alot of respect for people here, lets hope someone levels your fucking city because some criminals were operating there.

EDIT: Staying ontopic though, the problem seemed to be that they got hold of american uniforms/equipment or managed to make copies of them which worked. That's quite bad thinking that the enemy can get hold of your own uniform....and blond hair and blue eyes GS? Iranians? This situation is confusing.

Last edited by Mekstizzle (2007-07-13 04:38:02)

fadedsteve
GOP Sympathizer
+266|6497|Menlo Park, CA
Iraq was a mess when Saddam was in power. . . . .Iraq was a mess when Saddam wasnt in power. . . .

Iraq is a product of its surroundings!! Its surroundings are nations that flaunt the subjugation of others!! That subjugation
has been in place for hundreds of years. . . . .

Iraq is but a symptom of the crisis that permiates the entire region as a whole!!!  Our invasion doesnt distract the problems that Iraq suffered from LONG before American troops were even on the ground years ago!

Bottom line. . . . Iraq is a product of its surroundings!! Those surroundings are unacceptable in a modern context, therefore needs to be remedied.  When the remedy is unabsorbed by peace it needs to be absorbed by force. . . .pure and simple.  Iraq choose to be unresolved peacefully. . . . yet half our population doesnt get that reality!! They are unable to grasp the fact our nation is gripped in a life or death stuggle with an enemy worse than the Nazi's!!  An enemy capabable and willing to do more harm than the Nazi's could even fathom! Until that reality is realized we are going to fight the way we fight in Afghanistan and Iraq, and there is nothing any honest American can do anything about!!! 

Its sad, scary, and too bad. . . . .  we are too good of a country to fight the way we fight against this unrelenting tumor of an enemy!! Its an enemy that need to be defeated surgicallly, and our politicians dont employ the surgeons to do the work that needs to be done!!

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