Cougar
Banned
+1,962|6772|Dallas
Chavez takes over big oil.

Viva' la revolution eh?
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6724

Cougar wrote:

Chavez takes over big oil.

Viva' la revolution eh?
Lawl at teh irony.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6765|Argentina
Technically he wanted to be a dictator before being elected, when he led a coup against president Perez back in 1992.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6537|Global Command
I really hate that guy.
Airstrike?
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6569
Nationalising the oil doesn't make him a dictator.
Cougar
Banned
+1,962|6772|Dallas

Bubbalo wrote:

Nationalising the oil doesn't make him a dictator.
No, but it will in the long run.  It's what he wants and this is one of the ways he plans to achieve it.
topal63
. . .
+533|6726

Bubbalo wrote:

Nationalising the oil doesn't make him a dictator.
Not only that but it is still a battlefield in the rest of the market place. He needs all of those (multi-national) oil companies to invest in the extraction of the oil.

From the very same article:
"Despite the fanfare, these companies remain locked in a behind-the-scenes struggle with the Chavez government, and appear to be taking a decisive stand, demanding conditions - and presumably compensation - to convince them that Venezuela will continue to be good business."

Last edited by topal63 (2007-05-01 08:05:12)

Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6569

Cougar wrote:

No, but it will in the long run.  It's what he wants and this is one of the ways he plans to achieve it.
Your title, however, is ridiculous.
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6556|San Diego, CA, USA

topal63 wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

Nationalising the oil doesn't make him a dictator.
Not only that but it is still a battlefield in the rest of the market place. He needs all of those (multi-national) oil companies to invest in the extraction of the oil.

From the very same article
"Despite the fanfare, these companies remain locked in a behind-the-scenes struggle with the Chavez government, and appear to be taking a decisive stand, demanding conditions - and presumably compensation - to convince them that Venezuela will continue to be good business."
That's a good point.  Does this mean that the companies that lost their interestests can claim their loss with their respective governments?  How is this handled? 

Can Chavez refine all their oil? 

Should santions be placed on them?

Will the U.N. do anything about this?
Mitch
16 more years
+877|6533|South Florida

Cougar wrote:

Chavez takes over big oil.

Viva' la revolution eh?
Thats what happens when you put a mexican in charge
15 more years! 15 more years!
topal63
. . .
+533|6726

Harmor wrote:

topal63 wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

Nationalising the oil doesn't make him a dictator.
Not only that but it is still a battlefield in the rest of the market place. He needs all of those (multi-national) oil companies to invest in the extraction of the oil.

From the very same article
"Despite the fanfare, these companies remain locked in a behind-the-scenes struggle with the Chavez government, and appear to be taking a decisive stand, demanding conditions - and presumably compensation - to convince them that Venezuela will continue to be good business."
That's a good point.  Does this mean that the companies that lost their interests can claim their loss with their respective governments?  How is this handled? 

Can Chavez refine all their oil? 

Should sanctions be placed on them?

Will the U.N. do anything about this?
Chavez and his government can't refine any of it... he threatens the multi-national big-boys, with "then I will use China or India," but that is all just pure hot-air. Those countries do not have the (technological) expertise to extract or refine the Orinoco Reserve. He needs the multi-nationals already doing business in Venezuela.

Sanctions sure why not... I don't see anything wrong with that, but in the end it will either be equitable for someone/some-company to do business or not (with Chavez/Venezuela).

The U.N. has no interest or business - in this type of issue (it is purely a state vs business/money issue).

Last edited by topal63 (2007-05-01 08:14:00)

Cougar
Banned
+1,962|6772|Dallas

Bubbalo wrote:

Cougar wrote:

No, but it will in the long run.  It's what he wants and this is one of the ways he plans to achieve it.
Your title, however, is ridiculous.
What's that got to do with anything?
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6298|Éire

ATG wrote:

I really hate that guy.
Airstrike?
I'm glad you don't own any fighter planes!

I'm not gonna feel sorry for any fat cat oil company, they don't deserve any sympathy and the more trouble they get the better as far as I'm concerned, I'd be more worried by the fact that Venezuela could be cutting their nose off to spite their face if the Chinese and Indian companies can't deliver the goods. If they mess up their countries main asset the economy and by extension the people of Venezuela will be the ones to suffer.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6608|132 and Bush

sergeriver wrote:

Technically he wanted to be a dictator before being elected, when he led a coup against president Perez back in 1992.
I was in Caracas then.. Scary stuff. Airports were shutdown, couldn't go anywhere.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,973|6640|949

From the article -
The companies ceding control include BP Plc (Charts), ConocoPhillips (Charts, Fortune 500), Exxon Mobil (Charts, Fortune 500)., Chevron (Charts, Fortune 500), France's Total SA (Charts) and Norway's Sta toil ASA (Charts). All but ConocoPhillips have agreed in principle to state control, and Venezuela has warned it may expropriate that company's assets if it doesn't follow suit.
"companies ceding control" and "Chavez takes over" are pretty big leaps.

Despite the fanfare, these companies remain locked in a behind-the-scenes struggle with the Chavez government, and appear to be taking a decisive stand, demanding conditions - and presumably compensation - to convince them that Venezuela will continue to be good business.
As the article (and topal) noted, the country of Venezuela (and Hugo) needs the big oil companies to refine and distribute.

Furthermore-
But three-quarters of the world's proven reserves are already controlled by state monopolies, so Venezuela may still prove enticing.
Seems like Big Oil does all right across the rest of the globe, right?

Ideally, I believe that all natural resources of a country should be controlled by the state.  Surely they (the nationalist government and multinational companies) can form a symbiotic relationship.

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2007-05-01 09:32:23)

CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6563
Personally I'm dead against big oil and all for nationalisation of natural resources like that. I'd be an advocate of setting up public-private partnerships like we have in Ireland on road-building schemes, whereby companies can jointly develop an oil field with full control/ownership reverting to the government at the end of the term (say 15-20 years), the company having profited in the interim (via tolls in the road example).

I'd be more worried about the other things he has been up to. He shut down the last remaining non-governmental television station only a few weeks ago and has well and truly set Venezuela on course to being just another dictatorship - not a communist state.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-05-01 09:30:26)

M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6231|Escea

ATG wrote:

I really hate that guy.
Airstrike?
All of us who want to could beat up Chavez and throw him through a window in slow-mo, then we'll use an airstrike. Oh and yes he is defniately trying to become a dictator, clear signs so far I'd say.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6413|North Carolina

Cougar wrote:

Chavez takes over big oil.

Viva' la revolution eh?
I don't like Chavez or the idea of stealing other people's shit, but honestly, this kind of thing might have to happen throughout the Middle East in order to decrease poverty over there.

As for Venezuela....  well...  that's another situation altogether.
JimmyBotswana
Member
+82|6593|Montreal
wasn't this why the CIA overthrew Mossadegh in 1953? Where are they now? Oh wait I forgot the U.S. is over-stretched in Iraq. Riiiiight.
JahManRed
wank
+646|6636|IRELAND

Last time I checked, the earth bellow your feat belongs to the country its in and so should the oil. The oil is essentially part of the country, its compressed decomposed materials that make up the country itself.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6569

Cougar wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

Cougar wrote:

No, but it will in the long run.  It's what he wants and this is one of the ways he plans to achieve it.
Your title, however, is ridiculous.
What's that got to do with anything?
The fact that you arguing he's doing this 'cos he wants to be a dictator is the discussion point of the thread?
crimson_grunt
Shitty Disposition (apparently)
+214|6662|Teesside, UK
Reminds me of a news article i posted a while ago.

"Political activisits are calling on U2 singer Bono, as an investor in Pandemic Studios, to halt the development of forthcoming shooter Mercenaries 2: World in Flames.

The game is set in Venezuela and sees players taking on a political tyrant who has taken control of the oil industry. It's already attracted criticism from the country's president, Hugo Chavez, who labelled it as an example of "psychological warfare".

Now the Venezuelan Solidarity Campaign has written an open letter to religious leaders asking for their help in stopping production on the game."

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=67386
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=23702
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6527|Πάϊ

Cougar wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

Nationalising the oil doesn't make him a dictator.
No, but it will in the long run.  It's what he wants and this is one of the ways he plans to achieve it.
So you call him a dictator because he nationalised the oil, but then you admit that this action doesn't make him one. So why is he a dictator? I for one think its a good thing that those big multinationals don't suck the money out of the country and its people any more.
ƒ³
TrollmeaT
Aspiring Objectivist
+492|6680|Colorado
Hugo Chavez needs a history lesson to see what happens when thugs try to take over business.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6563

TrollmeaT wrote:

Hugo Chavez needs a history lesson to see what happens when thugs try to take over business.
What happens?

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