DBBrinson1 wrote:
Another thread, but what did Reagan do wrong besides defeating the Ruskies? Also another thread somewhere, but what did North do wrong?
Reagan didn't defeat shit. The Soviet Union broke down under the weight of their own ambition. They overextended themselves militarily, got bogged down fighting an insurgency in the Middle East and eventually ground to a halt. Plainly put, they couldn't outspend us and they bankrupted themselves trying. Reagan talked a good game about evil empires and freedom while he was funding the Contras, who were little more than a glorified drug gang. He and North both circumvented the legal system of checks and balances meant to keep one branch of government from becoming more powerful than any other. Both of them shit on their oath regarding the Constitution of the United States and for some reason both of them are regarded as heroes for it.
DBBrinson1 wrote:
I understand all of that, however that is why Communism failed. It is a economic system rather than a "model". It is fruitless to believe that a system like communism (which needs to be run in perfect harmony at all time to work) when there are as you write human beings there to fuck it up.
And I suppose capitalism isn't an economic system that can be fucked up by human beings. Communism was doomed to failure once it embraced authoritarianism.
DBBrinson1 wrote:
I'll tell you why the arabs hate us. We have free trade and free choices. We can buy and do whatever the hell we want.
"The arabs". Yes because they're all a big Borg-like hive mind with no individuality. Maybe they hate people who make dumbass blanket statements like that. More likely they hate it when "doing whatever the hell we want" involves it being done to
them. This "they hate us for our freedoms" crap really doesn't wash. It's simplistic drivel, a nice short answer to a painfully complex problem.
DBBrinson1 wrote:
Well then by your own logic shouldn't the US be held responsible for its fuck ups and make it right over there? IE.. We helped saddam get into power. He was a fucktard. So we should be the ones to remove him? Shouldn't we be apologizing to the people saying our bad, let us make it right and get these assholes out? Or do you say we wash our hand of it all and walk away? Similar to what Clinton did.
And you expect them to
trust us? "Oh hey sorry about supporting that guy that tortured and killed you folks for almost 20 years, but we'll make it good now, we promise." Yeah, our government has a fantastic track record for fixing shit it's done wrong. You make it sound like the US has even admitted a shred of responsibility for that monster being in power all that time. This has
never been about "making things right". No, now Iraqis see Bush and his supposed concern for them, and they wonder where this concern was when Saddam was a friend to the US. They wonder why so many of their friends and family members had to die before the US government decided Saddam was a bad guy. They do not trust the motives of the US government because they have a long history to look back on. A history of rape rooms and torture chambers that didn't matter until their victims were dead, buried and dust. They might as well not have existed before the first Gulf War, because the US government didn't give a damn about them.
DBBrinson1 wrote:
Tell that to Daniel Pearl's family. I bet he thought that since he was a neutral observer he was safe over there.
Over there. In Iraq. Which is not over here, in the United States.
DBBrinson1 wrote:
Here is the problem with your thinking. Over here we are tolerant of Muslims.
If by "tolerant" you mean "constantly eyeing with suspicion, occasionally assaulting them and their houses of worship when we're not stupidly confusing Sikhs with Muslims, and swearing bold oaths that if there's one more attack on US soil, it'll be off to the camps with them".
DBBrinson1 wrote:
Over there they are not tolerant of non-Muslims. Shit, they will even fly to prove it.
I haven't travelled internationally myself, but I understand that it all depends on where you go. And probably how you act. Again, blanket statements.
DBBrinson1 wrote:
I'm disappointed to learn that you are wiling to play the odds game and bet it won't be me or anyone I know killed in a suicide attack. But believe it -I value any Americans life as much as I value my own.
Allow me to alleviate that disappointment. I never said I was willing to play the odds with anyone but myself.
DBBrinson1 wrote:
Another problem. These asshole don't care where you live. If you don't agree they want you dead. Remember the danish cartoons?
They can want me dead all they like. The chances of it happening are close to nil. These morons have managed to pull off a whopping two operations on US soil, only one of which was any kind of success. They're lagging far behind our domestic terrorist groups, who are currently more than happy to capitalize on the current climate of "if something blows up, it must be A-rabs who done it". And yes I remember the Danish cartoons. Published by a newspaper that once praised Hitler's Reich and rejected similar cartoons about Jesus; creating a furor that lasted a few months at outside with most of the damage done by a few thousand jackasses with too much time on their hands and a perfect excuse to riot and blame someone else. If that's the worst I have to fear from a religious path that contains over one billion adherents, well, I'm not quite ready to soil myself and beg Big Daddy Government to protect me.
DBBrinson1 wrote:
You have a bigger problem with a government trying to help a country gain freedom than one which supports/condones terrorism?
Please. The US government is not being altruistic towards Iraq. If it were inclined to such, it would have done so a long time ago. The US government has also supported, condoned and bankrolled terrorism when terrorism suited its purposes. But the biggest problem I have? It does so and signs my fucking name to it after paying for it with my taxes.
DBBrinson1 wrote:
That would be nice but history has taught us -ahem me- that Muslim extremists don't give a fuck about our policies. If they did, they wouldn't have fucked with us at all under Clintons "party time" presidency. There is no credibility to any mad men's actions -be it those wanting to nuke Israel or those fundamentalists. What do you suggest we do? Retreat? Embolden them? These guys don't know peace, look in any history book. They want us dead. Our government ain't putting us in harms way, it is the fascist asshats that convince young children to strap bombs to themselves that do.
Clinton? He was a joke. A phony. He talked a lot of shit about being progressive while bending over for just about every conservative policy that came down the pipe. He continued Bush41's policies towards Iraq. He set the groundwork for the Patriot Act. Oh but he did a good job of looking like or allowing himself to be painted as some sort of wild-eyed socialist. What do I suggest we do? Well I suggested not going there in the fucking first place a long damn time ago. That was my solution. It would have involved no American soldiers getting killed or maimed. It wouldn't have turned the whole region into a hotbed for terrorist recruiters. It wouldn't currently be creating more people who can trace the deaths of friends or family back to our doorstep, looking for bloody payback. Now out of curiosity, if retreat emboldens them, why isn't Reagan faulted for retreating from terrorists in Lebanon? Or I am one of the few people who actually cares to remember that 241 American soldiers died in Beirut and Reagan did fuck-all about it? Why does he get a pass?
Look, if you can't realize that our government's policies of supporting freakjobs like Hussein, the Shah of Iran, the Saudi Royals and every other US-interest-friendly murderer in the region isn't exactly making us a lot of friends, then of course you're not going to believe that our government is putting us in harm's way. They'll keep filling your head with more empty jingoisms like "They hate us for our freedoms" while they're grooming the next Hussein, ignoring the brutality of our supposed allies and selling cluster munitions to Israel. That just isn't acceptable for me.
