Horseman 77
Banned
+160|6807
Should Abortion be legal? and When ? What Trimester.

The Pro Life ( no Abortion, Save the kid ) argument seems to be purely theological.
This conflicts with Seperation of Church and State.
         
                                 Caps ok there Dshak ?

The Pro Choice ( get abortion, kill the kid ) Argument is that the kid is in her body?
Can a man decide to have the abortion? Its some of his stuff in there?
In NY a doctor injected his Girl friend to end her pregnancy and he was tried for murder.
Why?  He was qualified, she wasn't in Danger?
Most anti abortion people I know only oppose it because "Pro Choice" wants 100% Government funding for each and every fetus sucked out.

Some people think its cool if it isn't far along like 3 months or so.

But what if the kid starts to embarrass you? 
Shity paintings in kindergarten or Totally sucks at little league?
What about really ugly people?
Should there be an Abortion kit in BF2 if they add female soldier skins ?

Imagine the Speculum in close Quarters melee.  Vivid thought!

extra merit will be given for Jet pilot's and really smart European's opinions.
Check in and question my level of Education...
or just swear at me.
Ty
Mass Media Casualty
+2,398|6744|Noizyland

Who can remember when they're in the womb?
No-one? I thought so.
Hell, who can remember anything short of their first birthday?
Yes, abortion is okay. Kill the foetus.
I think it's worse bringing a child into a family or to a single parent that dosn't want them and can't supply for them.
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
Krappyappy
'twice cooked beef!'
+111|6790
as long as a fetus isn't capable of breathing on its own and is connected to the mother's blood system, it's essentially an organ of the mother, like a stomach or pancreas.

you can legally cut out your pancreas.
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|6807

Krappyappy wrote:

as long as a fetus isn't capable of breathing on its own and is connected to the mother's blood system, it's essentially an organ of the mother, like a stomach or pancreas.

you can legally cut out your pancreas.
Yea sure Try finding it. theres all kindsa shit stuffed in there and it hurt like hell. I gave up. Why did you say i could do that! I hate you now.
nzjafa
Member
+2|6735
After a couple 40oz and a few dumb mistakes a couple months ago, i found i was going to be a dad. thankfully this never came true. without abortion, i would have been paying child support for the next 18 years. i'm 15, which means i'd be paying until i was 33. i'm for it. like the two before me said, the foetus isn't self-aware. no-one knows these things, but i think it would never even know it was there. as long as it isn't self sufficient and conscious, i think that it is the choice of the parents because they will be the ones who would have 2 care for it.

Last edited by nzjafa (2005-12-06 23:14:06)

Ryan_Mercury
"It's Recharging!"
+19|6790
No it shouldn't. If the mother didn't want a baby to begin with, her dumb ass should have gone anal instead. Or use protection, or the pill. This is the reason we still have AIDS in todays modern world.

People are careless and need to be taught some hard facts of life these days. If that includes brining up a baby, then so be it. If you cant take care if it, find someone or somebodies who can. Hell, get your ovaries removed, but for fucks sake, if your not old enough to know that sex = babies, then wtf are you doing having sex for in the first place?

I understand people get raped too, maybe that would be the only plausable exception to a mother. But anything else is just wrong, because its the effect of your own dumb ass for letting someone do you unprotected.

Last edited by Ryan_Mercury (2005-12-06 23:18:35)

Krappyappy
'twice cooked beef!'
+111|6790

Horseman 77 wrote:

Krappyappy wrote:

as long as a fetus isn't capable of breathing on its own and is connected to the mother's blood system, it's essentially an organ of the mother, like a stomach or pancreas.

you can legally cut out your pancreas.
Yea sure Try finding it. theres all kindsa shit stuffed in there and it hurt like hell. I gave up. Why did you say i could do that! I hate you now.
it's pretty hard to find your pancreas by poking at yourself with your fingers. it's hidden behind your stomach.

Last edited by Krappyappy (2005-12-06 23:17:08)

nzjafa
Member
+2|6735

Ryan_Mercury wrote:

No it shouldn't. If the mother didn't want a baby to begin with, her dumb ass should have gone anal instead. Or use protection, or the pill. This is the reason we still have AIDS in todays modern world.

People are careless and need to be taught some hard facts of life these days. If that includes brining up a baby, then so be it. If you cant take care if it, find someone or somebodies who can. Hell, get your ovaries removed, but for fucks sake, if your not old enough to know that sex = babies, then wtf are you doing having sex for in the first place?

I understand people get raped too, maybe that would be the only plausable exception to a mother. But anything else is just wrong, because its the effect of your own dumb ass for letting someone do you unprotected.
of course i know that sex=babies. humans and doplhins are the only 2 animals in the world which do it not just for the sake of reproducing. most people do it for enjoyment. but accidents do happen. condoms do break, and pills do fail.

airplanes crash, but people don't fly airplanes just to crash them. people don't just have sex in order to get pregnant. however it happens. its a very rare occurence(sp?), and i beleive abortion should be used in order to clear up those mistakes.

i agree some people are careless, and like the guy said, i don't encourage them using it every time they fuck up, but some people do get unwanted pregnancies by no fault of their own.
Krappyappy
'twice cooked beef!'
+111|6790

nzjafa wrote:

humans and doplhins are the only 2 animals in the world which do it not just for the sake of reproducing.
add apes to that list.

apes use sex as a social gesture. the specific function of the gesture varies, from a display of dominance to greeting to a myriad other uses.

think of it like a hand wave - when you meet someone new, you don't shake his hand, you stick your penis in his ear.

example here
Ryan_Mercury
"It's Recharging!"
+19|6790
For one, everyone KNOWS there is an associated risk even when using protection. If they are not prepared to meet the possible concequence, ie, having a baby by means of a possible 'accient', then they should revert to other means of pleasure or prevention.

The fact is, they just don't give a shit about that risk. "Oh, it's not going to happen to me!!"

And that brings me back to my point, they need to face up. People don't join the Army not understanding theirs a possible risk of life. People don't board airplanes not knowing theres still a probabal chance of crashing or hijacking.

And on and on. People live their lifes based on analizing risks in their subconscience.

My point, again, is that just like any other decision, sex is one of the optional things people can decide not to do if they dont want to. Walk in stead of drive, drive instead of fly, whatever.

If they arnt prepared for the risks in these cases, don't do it. Or find an alternate route.

If you decide to take that route anyway, you better be prepared, instead of trying to take a shortcut, like changing the law. It's not like you can plead with god to let you live again because you fully understood theres a chance of getting into a car accident on the highway.

Oh I'm sorry. Off topic? You brought in the comparison arguement.
Krappyappy
'twice cooked beef!'
+111|6790
all this talk of risk assessment is irrelevant.

the point is women have the RIGHT to determine what happens to a lump of cells inside of her uterus, REGARDLESS of how it got there.

it's that simple.
SharkyMcshark
I'll take two
+132|6755|Perth, Western Australia
My two cents:

Basically for me abortion should be okay up until the baby would be able to survive outside the mothers body.

But hey, as my mum says "Its the woman's body and no man has the right to tell her what to do with her own f***ing body"

Direct quote that
notorious
Nay vee, bay bee.
+1,396|6717|The United Center
my sister worked for planned parenthood in the states for about 8 years...i never heard anything that asked for the government to fund each and every abortion.  abortions are usually paid for by the person having it done.  last i checked, there isn't a single insurance company in the states that covers abortions under their policy. 

i agree with krappyappy and sharkymcshark.  its a woman's body and she should have the final say in the matter, no matter what.

Ryan_Mercury, what about in cases of rape or incest?  in a rape case, obviously the woman didn't have a choice if she wanted sex or not so your argument that she should find another way to have pleasure doesn't hold true here.  a rape is one of the most devastating things that can happen to a woman...i would think the last thing she would want is a constant reminder of the event in the form of carrying and birthing a child whose father is the man who raped her.
Echo
WOoKie
+383|6689|The Netherlands
Abortion have been legal in the netherland for about 30 years now and we have the lowest numbers of abortions of europe.

I agree a woman should have the choice whether she s ready to raise a kid or not.
Metaltop
Member
+1|6733|The Netherlands

General-Echo wrote:

Abortion have been legal in the netherland for about 30 years now and we have the lowest numbers of abortions of europe.

I agree a woman should have the choice whether she s ready to raise a kid or not.
The lowest numbers? Probably because our country is 100times smaller than every other country.

I don't think it will also be the same when you compare it in percents.
Echo
WOoKie
+383|6689|The Netherlands
we have the lowest number of abortions PER 1000 women, that in percents matey
7thscout
Member
+1|6686
Minnesoter wrote "Interesting all this predominantly male talk of abortion." 

I can understand why you say that Minnesoter reading posts like:

Horseman77 wrote "Should there be an Abortion kit in BF2 if they add female soldier skins ?

And posts like:

Ryan_Mercury wrote "No it shouldn't. If the mother didn't want a baby to begin with, her dumb ass should have gone anal instead. Or use protection, or the pill. This is the reason we still have AIDS in todays modern world. People are careless and need to be taught some hard facts of life these days. If that includes brining up a baby, then so be it. If you cant take care if it, find someone or somebodies who can. Hell, get your ovaries removed, but for fucks sake, if your not old enough to know that sex = babies, then wtf are you doing having sex for in the first place?

I understand people get raped too, maybe that would be the only plausable exception to a mother. But anything else is just wrong, because its the effect of your own dumb ass for letting someone do you unprotected."

Minnesoter wrote "I'm curious how many men believe they should have a right to oppose or even insist on an abortion."

I couldnt agree with you more Minnesoter
DrDestruction
Utilityman
+1|6747

7thscout wrote:

Minnesoter wrote "Interesting all this predominantly male talk of abortion." 

I can understand why you say that Minnesoter reading posts like:

Horseman77 wrote "Should there be an Abortion kit in BF2 if they add female soldier skins ?

And posts like:

Ryan_Mercury wrote "No it shouldn't. If the mother didn't want a baby to begin with, her dumb ass should have gone anal instead. Or use protection, or the pill. This is the reason we still have AIDS in todays modern world. People are careless and need to be taught some hard facts of life these days. If that includes brining up a baby, then so be it. If you cant take care if it, find someone or somebodies who can. Hell, get your ovaries removed, but for fucks sake, if your not old enough to know that sex = babies, then wtf are you doing having sex for in the first place?

I understand people get raped too, maybe that would be the only plausable exception to a mother. But anything else is just wrong, because its the effect of your own dumb ass for letting someone do you unprotected."

Minnesoter wrote "I'm curious how many men believe they should have a right to oppose or even insist on an abortion."

I couldnt agree with you more Minnesoter
Your absolutely right.  So a child should go through life with one parent, little income, and barely a chance to make anything of himself because his mother and/or father was a "dumb ass for letting someone do you unprotected".  Adoption is not the same thing as living with your true parents, and often causes resentment when the child matures.  I know a few adopted people who struggle ALOT with this, and it causes them numerous emotional problems.  I also know a few adopted children that are fine with it (to be fair).

I think adoption is great - hell, I have a cousin who is adopted.  But I do believe that the option of abortion should be there, but ONLY in the first trimester.  This keeps abortions mainly to those who know they won't be able to support the baby or concieved it through ways not their choice (i.e. rape victims, lower income families WITHOUT ACCESS TO BIRTH CONTROL, etc.).  This would stop people from going halfway through their pregnancy and then deciding that they want an abortion.

To me, abortion is something that is decided as soon as (or soon after) the child is learned of, NOT something you ponder for a few months before deciding.  You can either support the child, or you can't.
beeng
Get C4, here!
+66|6756

wait wait, where is abortion ILLEGAL?
Krappyappy
'twice cooked beef!'
+111|6790

DrDestruction wrote:

To me, abortion is something that is decided as soon as (or soon after) the child is learned of, NOT something you ponder for a few months before deciding.  You can either support the child, or you can't.
quoted for truth. even though i believe that a woman has the absolute right to abortion even up to the time of birth, there is rarely the need to wait so long. the decision to abort a fetus should be made as early as possible, to make the procedure less complex and cost less.
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|6811|Cologne, Germany

it is legal in germany, and I agree that it is the woman's right to decide. But you can only do an abortion within the first 8 weeks of the pregnancy, I believe. Also, one should do everything possible to avoid pregnancy in the first place. Like ryan_mercury said, some people are quite careless with sex.

Hell, I have even heard youngsters say they believe they can't get pregnant while having sex for the first time. It's all a matter of education.

If you cannot support a child decently, why even bother to have one ? I am not saying low-income couples shouldn't have the right to have kids, but seriously, if you are already living of welfare, do you really think having another child is a good idea ?
CreepingDeath
Member
+1|6714

nzjafa wrote:

After a couple 40oz and a few dumb mistakes a couple months ago, i found i was going to be a dad. thankfully this never came true. without abortion, i would have been paying child support for the next 18 years. i'm 15, which means i'd be paying until i was 33. i'm for it. like the two before me said, the foetus isn't self-aware. no-one knows these things, but i think it would never even know it was there. as long as it isn't self sufficient and conscious, i think that it is the choice of the parents because they will be the ones who would have 2 care for it.
Hopefully you have learned to keep the snake in your pants until your married.
I did, because, when I was 16, I like you had a few beers and scrumped this girl she got knocked up.
Yes, a one night stand. He is now is 22 years old. theres a lot more to this but the basic is and to anyone thats not married. DON'T DO IT wait until your married. There are way to many females now days that want to get knocked up have a kid so they so they think can raise them better then what thier parents had done with them. Only Girlfriend you should have is rosie palm. Then you wont have to worry about abortion ever.
Krappyappy
'twice cooked beef!'
+111|6790

mostly directed at the post above me.

people should be having sex all the time. married, not married, gay, straight, bestiality, whatever. the fulfillment of sexual desire is probably THE most repressed instinct out of all our desires, especially in countries bound to the judeo-islam-christian aesthetic, and many other traditional cultures around the world.

having your sexual instinct stifled is the underlying reason for a huge percentage of social problems. some genetic anthropologists even go so far as to suggest that the entire phenomena which characterise human existence are rooted in the repression of sexual desire. things like male dominance, technology, and warfare can be traced directly to the repression of sexual instinct.

simply put, we'd all be better off getting laid. if the woman gets pregnant, she is free to abort if she wants. let's not pretend that life is valuable, plenty of third world country children are 'aborted' after they are born because of hunger and disease, and we kill people without thinking twice if they wear the wrong uniform.

Last edited by Krappyappy (2005-12-08 10:53:40)

NamelessMarine
Member
+0|6705
I'm really retarded for posting this here...but I have to say it...

No.

Oh, and to cover a base, I don't care if you think it shuold be legal, thats your problem, dosn't effect my world but I don't think it should be legal at all.  If you've gotta have it, shoot the bitch in the head.  Atleast then we have two less things to worry about.
starman7
Member
+15|6694
Look here.  Those who are talking about stupid ppl getting pregnant, yes, they should be given some sort of lesson, but if you get a kid and he won't be properly supported, it just isn't fair to bring a tortured life into this world just to teach them that lesson.  And besides-usually getting pregnant in the first place may well shock them into protection/abstinence.  And yes, rape and failed protection measures should be taken into account even if it is made illegal.  As for the war-pregnancy analogy, when you get killed in war, there's no going back, but with pregnancy, there is.  And NamelessMarine, wtf are you talking about?  Shooting pregnant women in the head?

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