Pages: 1 2

 

2007-03-17 23:25:52
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|7118|Tampa Bay Florida
Do you really think Turkey would risk so much just to get a piece of land?  Nowadays it seems that the effects would be outweighed by the costs.  Any action against northern Iraq, whether Americans are there or not, will put them on the EU's and USA's shitlist, not a good list to be on in modern times.

I say, after we pull out, we fund Kurdistan, similar to how we fund Israel.  We let the Turks and Iranians know that any action against the Kurds will be an act of war.  Kapish.

Last edited by Spearhead (2007-03-17 23:27:05)

2007-03-17 23:28:07
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6957|Global Command

Turquoise wrote:

ATG wrote:

Commie Killer wrote:


Yeah, the Kurds up North in Iraq are doing extremely well, I kinda admire them for how good they are doing and how they can live off themselves almost.
Too bad turkey will not let them live in peace. You watch, one of the first things that will happen when we pullout, as per the dems demands, is that Turkey will invade.
I doubt that...  Iran is the one most likely to invade Iraq.  Turkey would likely have to make some kind of agreement with Iran to invade Northern Iraq, and doing so would guarantee that they wouldn't be allowed into the EU.  Whether Turkey wants to admit it or not, losing the ability to enter EU would be a major blow to their economic potential.
Valid points, but:
http://newsblaze.com/story/200609260240 … nions.html

Both Ankara-Tehran are preparing air units along with, armor, paratroops, special operations and artillery forces with the immediate objective being PKK-PJAK bases in the Quandil mountains that lie across Turkey's border, where 5,000 Kurdish fighters have been based. Washington suspects such an invasion could also be Ankara's excuse to seize Kirkuk which is responsible for 40% of Iraq's oil. It seems that Kurdish communities in Turkey and Iran have been emboldened by the independent actions of Iraqi Kurds since the overthrow of Saddam Hussein three years ago [snip]

Debka reports that both Tehran-Ankara suspect Washington would not mind if a Kurdish state were established that also included parts of Armenia as well as Turkey - Iran as a barrier state against Tehran. But obviously neither Ankara-Yerevan-Tehran want to see the Kurdish flag raised anywhere and especially in a Kurdistan militarily in alliance with Washington. This would be another example of the West "re-drawing the map of the Middle East" to suit its political-economic agenda. Strangely enough Washington has not once complained about the Kurdish flag perhaps since they are aware that the Shi'ite Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki is taking his marching orders from Tehran.
There have long been rumors that a alliance already exists.
Sad but true; a larger war is coming.
2007-03-17 23:28:15
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6833|North Carolina

Spearhead wrote:

Do you really think Turkey would risk so much just to get a piece of land?  Nowadays it seems that the effects would be outweighed by the costs.  Any action against northern Iraq, whether Americans are there or not, will put them on the EU's and USA's shitlist, not a good list to be on in modern times.

I say, after we pull out, we fund Kurdistan, similar to how we fund Israel.  We let the Turks and Iranians know that any action against the Kurds will be an act of war.  Kapish.
I second that motion.

Although, I think we should stop funding Israel

Last edited by Turquoise (2007-03-17 23:29:02)

2007-03-17 23:28:56
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|7118|Tampa Bay Florida

Turquoise wrote:

I second that motion.

Although, I think we should stop funding Israel.
Agreed

Just had to use an example.

Last edited by Spearhead (2007-03-17 23:29:51)

2007-03-17 23:30:53
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7194|UK

ATG wrote:

Commie Killer wrote:

Turquoise wrote:


I totally agree....
Yeah, the Kurds up North in Iraq are doing extremely well, I kinda admire them for how good they are doing and how they can live off themselves almost.
Too bad turkey will not let them live in peace. You watch, one of the first things that will happen when we pullout, as per the dems demands, is that Turkey will invade.
Turkey wont do that because they would instantly lose their bid for EU status.
2007-03-17 23:32:06
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6833|North Carolina

ATG wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

ATG wrote:


Too bad turkey will not let them live in peace. You watch, one of the first things that will happen when we pullout, as per the dems demands, is that Turkey will invade.
I doubt that...  Iran is the one most likely to invade Iraq.  Turkey would likely have to make some kind of agreement with Iran to invade Northern Iraq, and doing so would guarantee that they wouldn't be allowed into the EU.  Whether Turkey wants to admit it or not, losing the ability to enter EU would be a major blow to their economic potential.
Valid points, but:
http://newsblaze.com/story/200609260240 … nions.html

Both Ankara-Tehran are preparing air units along with, armor, paratroops, special operations and artillery forces with the immediate objective being PKK-PJAK bases in the Quandil mountains that lie across Turkey's border, where 5,000 Kurdish fighters have been based. Washington suspects such an invasion could also be Ankara's excuse to seize Kirkuk which is responsible for 40% of Iraq's oil. It seems that Kurdish communities in Turkey and Iran have been emboldened by the independent actions of Iraqi Kurds since the overthrow of Saddam Hussein three years ago [snip]

Debka reports that both Tehran-Ankara suspect Washington would not mind if a Kurdish state were established that also included parts of Armenia as well as Turkey - Iran as a barrier state against Tehran. But obviously neither Ankara-Yerevan-Tehran want to see the Kurdish flag raised anywhere and especially in a Kurdistan militarily in alliance with Washington. This would be another example of the West "re-drawing the map of the Middle East" to suit its political-economic agenda. Strangely enough Washington has not once complained about the Kurdish flag perhaps since they are aware that the Shi'ite Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki is taking his marching orders from Tehran.
There have long been rumors that a alliance already exists.
Sad but true; a larger war is coming.
That's an interesting piece of info....  I find it ironic that Turkey would even consider allying with Iran.  Isn't Turkey primarily a Sunni country?
2007-03-17 23:46:17
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6957|Global Command

Turquoise wrote:

ATG wrote:

Turquoise wrote:


I doubt that...  Iran is the one most likely to invade Iraq.  Turkey would likely have to make some kind of agreement with Iran to invade Northern Iraq, and doing so would guarantee that they wouldn't be allowed into the EU.  Whether Turkey wants to admit it or not, losing the ability to enter EU would be a major blow to their economic potential.
Valid points, but:
http://newsblaze.com/story/200609260240 … nions.html

Both Ankara-Tehran are preparing air units along with, armor, paratroops, special operations and artillery forces with the immediate objective being PKK-PJAK bases in the Quandil mountains that lie across Turkey's border, where 5,000 Kurdish fighters have been based. Washington suspects such an invasion could also be Ankara's excuse to seize Kirkuk which is responsible for 40% of Iraq's oil. It seems that Kurdish communities in Turkey and Iran have been emboldened by the independent actions of Iraqi Kurds since the overthrow of Saddam Hussein three years ago [snip]

Debka reports that both Tehran-Ankara suspect Washington would not mind if a Kurdish state were established that also included parts of Armenia as well as Turkey - Iran as a barrier state against Tehran. But obviously neither Ankara-Yerevan-Tehran want to see the Kurdish flag raised anywhere and especially in a Kurdistan militarily in alliance with Washington. This would be another example of the West "re-drawing the map of the Middle East" to suit its political-economic agenda. Strangely enough Washington has not once complained about the Kurdish flag perhaps since they are aware that the Shi'ite Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki is taking his marching orders from Tehran.
There have long been rumors that a alliance already exists.
Sad but true; a larger war is coming.
That's an interesting piece of info....  I find it ironic that Turkey would even consider allying with Iran.  Isn't Turkey primarily a Sunni country?
Correct:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Turkey

Turkey is concerned that the Kurds in their South will unite with the Kurds in Iraqs North to form an independent state. Then there is the oil money.

Turkey is a surprisingly secular country considering the region.
2007-03-18 00:13:22
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6833|North Carolina

ATG wrote:

Correct:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Turkey

Turkey is concerned that the Kurds in their South will unite with the Kurds in Iraqs North to form an independent state. Then there is the oil money.

Turkey is a surprisingly secular country considering the region.
Turkey has a secular government, but a significant minority of their population is very religious.  As far as Islamic nations go, they're pretty progressive, but that's not saying much.
2007-03-18 05:13:57
Lost Hope
Lurker
+20|6755|Brussels, Belgium

Turquoise wrote:

ATG wrote:

Correct:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Turkey

Turkey is concerned that the Kurds in their South will unite with the Kurds in Iraqs North to form an independent state. Then there is the oil money.

Turkey is a surprisingly secular country considering the region.
Turkey has a secular government, but a significant minority of their population is very religious.  As far as Islamic nations go, they're pretty progressive, but that's not saying much.
Turkey is supposed to be a democracy but the army has still a lot of power, something you don't hear much.

The Turkish people are similar to the Iranian people, they just want to live their lives and don't really care about Israel or other shit. They are very similar to us.

It's just a minority of people that wants to impose it's will against the majority, like everywhere in fact, their politicians are just as bad as ours

Last edited by Lost Hope (2007-03-18 05:15:04)

https://bf3s.com/sigs/9c9f8f6ff3579a4c711aa54bbb9e928ec0786003.png
2007-03-18 10:02:14
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6833|North Carolina

Lost Hope wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

ATG wrote:

Correct:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Turkey

Turkey is concerned that the Kurds in their South will unite with the Kurds in Iraqs North to form an independent state. Then there is the oil money.

Turkey is a surprisingly secular country considering the region.
Turkey has a secular government, but a significant minority of their population is very religious.  As far as Islamic nations go, they're pretty progressive, but that's not saying much.
Turkey is supposed to be a democracy but the army has still a lot of power, something you don't hear much.

The Turkish people are similar to the Iranian people, they just want to live their lives and don't really care about Israel or other shit. They are very similar to us.

It's just a minority of people that wants to impose it's will against the majority, like everywhere in fact, their politicians are just as bad as ours
Well, I'd say Turkey is far worse than America or most of the West.  They treat their Kurdish minorities like shit.  Granted, some Kurds are terrorists against the Turks.

It's a tricky situation, but if Kurdistan was formed, then it might lessen the violence in Turkey by giving the Kurds a place to live without being attacked.  We could make it clear that any attack on Kurdistan would be tantamount to attacking America.
2007-03-18 16:32:00
m3thod
All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz
+2,197|7099|UK

ATG wrote:

Iraqis: life is getting better:   http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w … 530762.ece

Times online wrote:

MOST Iraqis believe life is better for them now than it was under Saddam Hussein, according to a British opinion poll published today.

The survey of more than 5,000 Iraqis found the majority optimistic despite their suffering in sectarian violence since the American-led invasion four years ago this week.
Thank the Gods, some positive press!

Hopefully this was not all in vain.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070317/D8NTSS3O0.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle … 464277.stm

V to tha a to tha i to tha n

Last edited by m3thod (2007-03-18 17:03:12)

Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
2007-03-18 17:03:43
m3thod
All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz
+2,197|7099|UK

Turquoise wrote:

I believe you need to move some letters around....
opps!!!
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
2007-03-18 17:27:27
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6957|Global Command

m3thod wrote:

ATG wrote:

Iraqis: life is getting better:   http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w … 530762.ece

Times online wrote:

MOST Iraqis believe life is better for them now than it was under Saddam Hussein, according to a British opinion poll published today.

The survey of more than 5,000 Iraqis found the majority optimistic despite their suffering in sectarian violence since the American-led invasion four years ago this week.
Thank the Gods, some positive press!

Hopefully this was not all in vain.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070317/D8NTSS3O0.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle … 464277.stm

V to tha a to tha i to tha n
I know we can always count on the liberal press and the esteemed members for the politically left of these forums to point out the futility of freedom and change.
2007-03-18 19:32:28
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6947|Πάϊ
As much as I would like to see the US supporting a Kurdish state within currently Turkish land, I'm afraid I don't see this happening any time soon. Turkey is a major US ally in the region, the second most important in fact after Israel. It would be a severe loss for the US to change the status quo, especially now that Turkey is about to enter the EU. It constitutes a unique opportunity for the US to gain yet another unconditional European friend.
ƒ³
2007-03-18 19:57:48
Fen321
Member
+54|6925|Singularity

ATG wrote:

m3thod wrote:

ATG wrote:

Iraqis: life is getting better:   http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w … 530762.ece

Thank the Gods, some positive press!

Hopefully this was not all in vain.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070317/D8NTSS3O0.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle … 464277.stm

V to tha a to tha i to tha n
I know we can always count on the liberal press and the esteemed members for the politically left of these forums to point out the futility of freedom and change.
https://oldamericancentury.org/liberals.jpg

What the hell do you mean by Liberal press. Honestly i want you to give me an exact definition that defines what makes up a press in terms of its coverage as Liberal.

"futility of freedom and change" -- Now i want you to think about this really hard -- how does posting a news source that paints the opposite picture, but is posted on the internet via the country that was our biggest ally in starting the entire mess constitutes a LIBERAL predisposition to paint the situation worse than it really is.

You sir -- were simply owned by the reality that is the situation. Millions of refugees in neighboring countries are not there because FREEDOM AND CHANGE is raining down upon them in their home towns. FREEDOM AND CHANGE has taken the form of random mortar shell attacks, roadside bombings, Chlorine bombings, school attacks, pilgrim attacks.

Through what prism are you choosing to view the horror that is that country -- I've yet to set foot there and i know i wouldn't want to be caught dead in the politically motivated fighting, but yeah your right I'm just another Liberal you get to label.
2007-03-18 19:59:59
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6833|North Carolina
Good points...  the press is neither liberal nor conservative; it's sensationalist.
2007-03-18 20:01:27
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6833|North Carolina

oug wrote:

As much as I would like to see the US supporting a Kurdish state within currently Turkish land, I'm afraid I don't see this happening any time soon. Turkey is a major US ally in the region, the second most important in fact after Israel. It would be a severe loss for the US to change the status quo, especially now that Turkey is about to enter the EU. It constitutes a unique opportunity for the US to gain yet another unconditional European friend.
I was thinking more along the lines of making Northern Iraq a Kurdish state.  Turkey would still keep all its lands.  Granted, Turkey would still reject that idea too....
2007-03-18 21:24:20
san4
The Mas
+311|7116|NYC, a place to live

ATG wrote:

I know we can always count on the liberal press and the esteemed members for the politically left of these forums to point out the futility of freedom and change.
Be careful what you wish for--freedom includes the freedom to engage in religious warfare, and change includes aligning Iraq with Iran. I have great confidence in the American people, but I have very little confidence in the Iraqi people.
2007-03-18 23:22:22
Reciprocity
Member
+721|7009|the dank(super) side of Oregon
you should ask the tens of thousands of people who have fled Iraq if they think life is better now.
2007-03-19 01:59:12
m3thod
All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz
+2,197|7099|UK

ATG wrote:

m3thod wrote:

ATG wrote:

Iraqis: life is getting better:   http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w … 530762.ece

Thank the Gods, some positive press!

Hopefully this was not all in vain.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070317/D8NTSS3O0.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle … 464277.stm

V to tha a to tha i to tha n
I know we can always count on the liberal press and the esteemed members for the politically left of these forums to point out the futility of freedom and change.
Correction:

The futility of engaging in war with a faceless enemy in the ludicrous attempt to attain peace through outright destruction and the total inability to win hearts and minds

But oh no, them damn liberals, they're to fookin blame.

Last edited by m3thod (2007-03-19 01:59:40)

Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
2007-03-19 05:04:02
IG-Calibre
comhalta
+226|7170|Tír Eoghan, Tuaisceart Éireann

ATG wrote:

Iraqis: life is getting better:   http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w … 530762.ece

Times online wrote:

MOST Iraqis believe life is better for them now than it was under Saddam Hussein, according to a British opinion poll published today.

The survey of more than 5,000 Iraqis found the majority optimistic despite their suffering in sectarian violence since the American-led invasion four years ago this week.
Thank the Gods, some positive press!

Hopefully this was not all in vain.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070317/D8NTSS3O0.html
BBC Poll says otherwise to Mr "Fox News" Murdoch's newspaper -

Pessimism 'growing among Iraqis' 

Iraqis have become less optimistic about their future, the poll suggests
A new survey paints a pessimistic picture of Iraqis' confidence in their own government and in coalition forces.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle … 464277.stm

Last edited by IG-Calibre (2007-03-19 05:08:34)

2007-03-19 05:19:57
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6947|Πάϊ

Turquoise wrote:

I was thinking more along the lines of making Northern Iraq a Kurdish state.  Turkey would still keep all its lands.  Granted, Turkey would still reject that idea too....
Well, if a proper Kurdish state were ever to be created, the majority of its land would have to come from Turkey, and it should also include northern Iraqi territories, parts of Iran and Syria as so:
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/images/kurdish_lands.jpg

Oh and I apologise for my posts being completely off subject... but as far as the OP goes... I'm reluctant to believe these reports... If nothing else its still too early for anyone to judge life now and before. Let the fighting end, things settle down a bit and then maybe a conclusion may be reached. I guess these reports are aiming to soothe the domestic opposition to the ongoing war. And failing to do even that...

Last edited by oug (2007-03-19 05:30:04)

ƒ³
2007-03-19 06:04:31
Pierre
I hunt criminals down for a living
+68|7103|Belgium

Turquoise wrote:

It's a tricky situation, but if Kurdistan was formed, then it might lessen the violence in Turkey by giving the Kurds a place to live without being attacked.  We could make it clear that any attack on Kurdistan would be tantamount to attacking America.
Agreed, but it might also indicate to the Kurds living in Turkey that thay also have a chance of becoming part of the new Kurdistan, which will not be accepted by Turkish government.
2007-03-19 17:15:25
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6833|North Carolina
Good points, oug and Pierre.  I was looking at that map, and I noticed, there is a town in Turkey called Batman?  lol

 

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