Horseman 77
Banned
+160|6829
This neutral crap was OK when you could travel only 12 miles a day on horseback and a mountain was an obstacle to an Army. you could distance your self economically and culturally as well as be Totally unaware of people plights or conflicts.

  Now we can ( and Terrorists too ) Circle the world with an Army in Hours and Communication can reach anywhere instantaneously. chances are you are aiding or hindering the people others are fighting in some way. The notion of neutrality seems Reckless as it is naive.
A neutral country lets others do the dirty work that must be done. Neutrality  ( during WWII and Now ) is bullcrap in my opinion when it comes to most of ( if not Not all ) of todays conflicts.

Curse at me
as I now curse too.
Krappyappy
'twice cooked beef!'
+111|6812
it's naive to think that any country is or ever has been neutral. but it's just as naive to think that the world falls into camps. the notion of 'if you're not with us you're against us' is stupidly oversimplified.

if you're a really keen and on-the-ball national leader, you let others fight it out while you stay nominally neutral. then you find a way to profit from the aftermath. what you don't do is commit yourself to either side before the issue is decided, that equals taking a gamble without knowing the odds of winning.
TehSeraphim
Thread Ender
+58|6715|New Hampshire
Neutrality is crap - in WWII we played "neutral" and still funneled weapons and support to the UK.  I'm not sure what countries like Switzerland get from being neutral, but it has to be pretty good.
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|6829

Krappyappy wrote:

it's naive to think that any country is or ever has been neutral. but it's just as naive to think that the world falls into camps. the notion of 'if you're not with us you're against us' is stupidly oversimplified.

if you're a really keen and on-the-ball national leader, you let others fight it out while you stay nominally neutral. then you find a way to profit from the aftermath. what you don't do is commit yourself to either side before the issue is decided, that equals taking a gamble without knowing the odds of winning.
A true Machiavellian raises his voice. You sir! where is your sense of altruism.
Tsk tsk

ps you get my vote for Pres.
RDMC_old
Member
+0|6728|Almere, Holland

Krappyappy wrote:

it's naive to think that any country is or ever has been neutral. but it's just as naive to think that the world falls into camps. the notion of 'if you're not with us you're against us' is stupidly oversimplified.

if you're a really keen and on-the-ball national leader, you let others fight it out while you stay nominally neutral. then you find a way to profit from the aftermath. what you don't do is commit yourself to either side before the issue is decided, that equals taking a gamble without knowing the odds of winning.
being neutral sucks.. just look at the neutral countries in WW II.. you will only make an easy target out of yourselve..
Krappyappy
'twice cooked beef!'
+111|6812
i don't believe altruism exists, period. in the animal world there is always a real and concrete incentive for any action, a mother protects her young for the genetic reasons, etc.

with humans it's a bit more complex, but even an action with no possibility of reward that only benefits a total stranger is its own reward. you feel good about yourself afterward. so, it can always be argued that it was that feeling of self-gratification that was the underlying motivation, and not altruism.

but we digress....

PS...yes i know WW2 is the only war to ever have happened on the face of the earth, but let's pretend it wasn't and come up with a more interesting example?

Last edited by Krappyappy (2005-12-05 07:25:47)

AD_Kensan
Member
+7|6777
I assume this thread has been started because of my statements in the "Not bf2s, not bf2"-Forum in a thread about "Absolutely worthless geography skills".
My remark was:
On a sidenote: I have no choice in following the spirit of my country and being neutral about everything
It was a ironic/sarcastic remark and ment to end the post on a "funny" note. I thought it would be obvious if you read the rest of my posts in this thread that I for one believe that you can not afford the be a "neutral" country per se BUT I believe that you can be a neutral country when it comes to military action.

TehSeraphim wrote:

Neutrality is crap - in WWII we played "neutral" and still funneled weapons and support to the UK.  I'm not sure what countries like Switzerland get from being neutral, but it has to be pretty good.
The neutrality of Switzerland during WWII has been thoroughly studied by the Bergier commision which cleared up many myths about the dealings of this country with Nazi-Germany and of course also the Allied Forces. What we got out of this all was that Switzerland was not occupied by any of the participating forces during WWII but of course this came by a high price. Nevertheless did the "neutral" status help people escape from Germany to the west through Switzerland.

It is very important to note that Neutrality does not mean the country seals itself of the rest of the world and says:"Hey we don't want to get involved, this is not our problem". In fact it is for example a big contribution to the credibility of the Red Cross. The red cross was founded in Switzerland but has since then evlolved into an international organization that does not "belong" to one country. But since the red cross is based in Switzerland and can only operate in areas of conflict when it is in fact neutral and does not favor any side.

Maybe this link to wikipedia will clear up some misconceptions. As you can see Switzerland has declared itself as an "armed neutrality" which basically means we take the right to defend ourselves if any of the involved parties would attack us on our soil.

Switzerland is taking an active role in many humanitarian projects throughout the world and is also very active in many UN organisations. Swiss authorities have been working closely with authorities from other countries concerning terrorism. All requests of freezing or seizing money belonging to known terrorists or terroristic groups have been fullfilled.
Another example would be that Switzerland is participating in the Peacekeeping mission in former Yugoslavia. Members of the swiss army are there ho help build up the country. Of course they are doing their duty unarmed, meaning they are NOT allowed to carry any weapons (not counting the swiss army knife of course ). As far as I know they are being protected by the austrian members of the KFOR.

In then end it comes down to this that my remark in the other post was meant as an ironic sidenote to end my post on a "funny" note. I thought it was clear that if you analyze my point of view in my other posts you will see that I believe that every nation and it's citizens are in one or another way connected to eachother and can not seal them of from eachother. I hope the clarifications about the term "neutrality" helped to understand that it is a rather well defined term in the field of international politics and is applied when it comes to armed conflicts.

Last edited by AD_Kensan (2005-12-05 09:16:54)

DrDestruction
Utilityman
+1|6770

AD_Kensan wrote:

I thought it was clear that if you analyze my point of view in my other posts you will see that I believe that every nation and it's citizens are in one or another way connected to eachother and can not seal them of from eachother. I hope the clarifications about the term "neutrality" helped to understand that it is a rather well defined term in the field of international politics and is applied when it comes to armed conflicts.
Well said, one of the best posts I have seen on these forums yet.
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|6829
who are these guys and why are they playing games. lol. what a well educated crew this stuff atracts, except for me
DrDestruction
Utilityman
+1|6770
Not all of us play this game consistantly, like a job.  Most of us have jobs and lives outside of BF2 (Im not saying you don't - I know how easily offended you get - Im just saying because you asked), and you can have an education and still play BF2.  By the way, you started the topic.
Krappyappy
'twice cooked beef!'
+111|6812
i get my education from tabloid papers and packages of bazooka joe.

haven't gotten to play much bf2 lately because i'm addicted to freestyling on Pump It Up

5 panels ftw

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