BF2S Forums 4 mercenaries executed, trying to help a convoy in iraq

11sog_raider wrote:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16783885/
do you guys know if the mercenaries are supported by the military at all over there. i havent heard wheather they are or not.

The mercenaries are overpaid.  We should end the privatization of security forces in Iraq and either withdraw from Iraq or increase enlistment through a draft.

And yes, I realize how unpopular a draft is, but after seeing how much privatization has cost us, I'd rather start a draft than funnel more funds into disreputable companies like Blackwater.

Besides, a well administered and well funded military should be able to outperform private contractors any day.

Last edited by Turquoise (2007-01-24 18:36:05)

looked just like my CAC card (card on right with green)

Last edited by jsnipy (2007-01-24 18:55:29)

ATG wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

11sog_raider wrote:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16783885/
do you guys know if the mercenaries are supported by the military at all over there. i haven't heard whether they are or not.

The mercenaries are overpaid.  We should end the privatization of security forces in Iraq and either withdraw from Iraq or increase enlistment through a draft.

And yes, I realize how unpopular a draft is, but after seeing how much privatization has cost us, I'd rather start a draft than funnel more funds into disreputable companies like Blackwater.

Besides, a well administered and well funded military should be able to outperform private contractors any day.

True, but the mercenaries are constrained by the same ROE's as the U.S. military.

The U.S. uses Egyptian " mercenaries " to interview high value terrorist suspects in Egypt where torture is legal.

The main thing our military really needs are people who are fluent in Arabic.  It's too bad we have to depend on citizens of other countries for so many of our communication needs.

Smitty5613 wrote:

we should just withdraw from Iraq, and let Israel nuke them

I think Israel would be wise enough not to nuke them.

Turquoise wrote:

11sog_raider wrote:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16783885/
do you guys know if the mercenaries are supported by the military at all over there. i haven't heard whether they are or not.

The mercenaries are overpaid.  We should end the privatization of security forces in Iraq and either withdraw from Iraq or increase enlistment through a draft.

And yes, I realize how unpopular a draft is, but after seeing how much privatization has cost us, I'd rather start a draft than funnel more funds into disreputable companies like Blackwater.

Besides, a well administered and well funded military should be able to outperform private contractors any day.

First of all.. they are not Mercenaries, they are contractors that provide a needed security that would be difficult for the US military to provide logistically. A mercenary is a hired killer, last time I checked these contractors were providing security. Semantics you might say but common sense will disagree.

The bulk of these Blackwater guys are made up of former (and some current reserve force on LOA) SEALS, SFOD-D, Army SF and USAF Pararescue / CCT members or JSOC operators.

The DOD has a need to deploy current active duty, reserve forces and National guard Special Operations/ Special Forces to areas of operation that could not be covered by contractors and on the flip side of that coin the DOD cannot afford (numerically) to have those low yield individuals providing Protective security details in the streets of Baghdad or other high threat areas. I have a lot of friends and co-workers that are currently employed as contractors with Blackwater, Triple Canopy, Dyncorp, L3 and KBR to name a few.

YES they do indeed make fantastic money, however they receive NO benefits living or dead, they work/ fly their freaking nuts off and are doing a good thing for the people of Iraq, Afghanistan, Colombia, Liberia.. ETC.
Do you have any idea what it costs to deploy and sustain a DOD component of their caliber to provide the services they do?? I can assure you though that these contractors a quite a bargain.

Disreputable??? ...... facts??? from my experience with all of these companies they are all above board, honest in intention and execution of missions. what contact or experiences did you say you had with any of these companies?

Turquoise wrote:

agwood wrote:

Disreputable??? ...... facts??? from my experience with all of these companies they are all above board, honest in intention and execution of missions. what contact or experiences did you say you had with any of these companies?

Watch "Iraq for Sale."  It really explains all you need to know about KBR, Blackwater, and Halliburton.

Privatization has resulted in overcharging scams that have cost us billions due to the ridiculous cost-plus system we have in place.  It's a travesty of capitalism.

Well watch this. 
http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2677403 (posted before by ATG)

Yea, those guys repelling insurgents to keep the newly installed gov running is such a travesty.
Bottom line?  Blackwater is BADASS.

about a year ago i was at my shooting range and a gentleman approached me and asked if i would be interested in $140,000 tax free for a years work, in iraq. i decided against that one pretty quickly.

I watched that film, and there is SOME truth to what was said but keep in mind where there is confusion there is profit. there is no excuse for some of the profiteering but it happens every time.

The idea that all of those people thought they would be "safe" is bullshit, a truck driver does not make $80-$100k for a year driving around in a safe environment... come on. They said they wanted to make a better life for their families and to help rebuild Iraq, but I bet you they wouldn't have done it if the pay wasn't as high.

The Blackwater and Triple Canopy guys know EXACTLY what dangers they face... I KNOW they know and we'll leave it at that.

Trust me when I tell you that if you are an American working a DOD contract Outside of the US (OCONUS)only the first $80,000 will be considered tax free.

These guys are necessary and do a good job, I have eaten a great deal of fantastic (honestly) meals provided to me in a KBR dining Facility, and it was almost always a 24 hour open mess. the part where the Soldier in that video that wouldn't wait in line had to be from a VERY early time in the war, in fact it may have been in Afghanistan which was a admittedly a little rocky in the beginning as far as food went.

As far as the ranks of SF units emptying quickly to go work contracts.. well.... that is just not true. Maybe ranger battalions but the specialized shooter units are not having a problem with retention or recruiting.

Good thread, and thank you for the link to that video "Iraq for Sale" I learned a few things, but it was of course taken with a grain of salt as documentaries like that have to be... they are usually very 1 sided.

Ag

Last edited by agwood (2007-01-25 01:18:09)

agwood wrote:

I watched that film, and there is SOME truth to what was said but keep in mind where there is confusion there is profit. there is no excuse for some of the profiteering but it happens every time.

The idea that all of those people thought they would be "safe" is bullshit, a truck driver does not make $80-$100k for a year driving around in a safe environment... come on. They said they wanted to make a better life for their families and to help rebuild Iraq, but I bet you they wouldn't have done it if the pay wasn't as high.

The Blackwater and Triple Canopy guys know EXACTLY what dangers they face... I KNOW they know and we'll leave it at that.

Trust me when I tell you that if you are an American working a DOD contract Outside of the US (OCONUS)only the first $80,000 will be considered tax free.

These guys are necessary and do a good job, I have eaten a great deal of fantastic (honestly) meals provided to me in a KBR dining Facility, and it was almost always a 24 hour open mess. the part where the Soldier in that video that wouldn't wait in line had to be from a VERY early time in the war, in fact it may have been in Afghanistan which was a admittedly a little rocky in the beginning as far as food went.

As far as the ranks of SF units emptying quickly to go work contracts.. well.... that is just not true. Maybe ranger battalions but the specialized shooter units are not having a problem with retention or recruiting.

Good thread, and thank you for the link to that video "Iraq for Sale" I learned a few things, but it was of course taken with a grain of salt as documentaries like that have to be... they are usually very 1 sided.

Ag

No prob...  but what really sealed it for me was how the water treatment plants were run.  Blackwater isn't the worst of the companies over there -- it's really Halliburton and KBR that do the most damage and overcharge the most.

My argument is that this wouldn't be such a quagmire if we had a military run in the FDR way.  We'd have forces and capabilities vast enough to run Iraq without so much private corruption.  Granted, I realize there were a ton of war profiteers during WW2 as well -- like Prescott Bush.