alot of times the sword thrust fails to drop the bull, so it's then teased into running around some more so the sword will cut up it's insides
No, not "alot" of times, but I think I've made my point that bullfighting is not nearly as inhumane as other things so I'm going to stop debating now.kr@cker wrote:
alot of times the sword thrust fails to drop the bull, so it's then teased into running around some more so the sword will cut up it's insides
yes, alot of times!! i win!!!
I hunt, I kill, I eat.
There is nothing wrong with driving an arrow through a deer's heart or putting a .270 round through him, but causing anything, much less an essentially defenseless animal, injury for entertainment is simply evil. There is a special place in hell for people who cause unnecessary pain to animals (I'm talking rodeo, bulfighting, whatever) for simple amusement.
Kill it, eat it, don't torture it for entertainment.
There is nothing wrong with driving an arrow through a deer's heart or putting a .270 round through him, but causing anything, much less an essentially defenseless animal, injury for entertainment is simply evil. There is a special place in hell for people who cause unnecessary pain to animals (I'm talking rodeo, bulfighting, whatever) for simple amusement.
Kill it, eat it, don't torture it for entertainment.
Thank you and goodnight. +1Dersmikner wrote:
I hunt, I kill, I eat.
There is nothing wrong with driving an arrow through a deer's heart or putting a .270 round through him, but causing anything, much less an essentially defenseless animal, injury for entertainment is simply evil. There is a special place in hell for people who cause unnecessary pain to animals (I'm talking rodeo, bulfighting, whatever) for simple amusement.
Kill it, eat it, don't torture it for entertainment.
O Rly?Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Like I said, any animal you want. And how would I kill it - that would depend on the animal, but as a general rule, as fast as possible - fish, wack them on the head and/or break their necks......
Your going to break the fish's neck? LMAO!
Heh, ok, you win. GG.kr@cker wrote:
yes, alot of times!! i win!!!
I said I wasn't going to debate this, but as I pointed out before part of the reason I respect matadors more than hunters is because they are putting themselves in a situation where the animal isn't completely defenseless. Should the bull get past the sword, the matador is screwed.Dersmikner wrote:
much less an essentially defenseless animal
You missed the word "essentially"Homeschtar wrote:
Heh, ok, you win. GG.kr@cker wrote:
yes, alot of times!! i win!!!I said I wasn't going to debate this, but as I pointed out before part of the reason I respect matadors more than hunters is because they are putting themselves in a situation where the animal isn't completely defenseless. Should the bull get past the sword, the matador is screwed.Dersmikner wrote:
much less an essentially defenseless animal
I dunno if this sums it up, but has anyone ever read Ernest Hemmingway's "The Sun Also Rises" ?
Because if so, you will understand bulfighting and how it correlates to people's lives.
Also, it's kindof tradition in Spain and other Spanish countries to Bullfight, it goes back pre 11th century; it's kinda been fought over already.
Because if so, you will understand bulfighting and how it correlates to people's lives.
Also, it's kindof tradition in Spain and other Spanish countries to Bullfight, it goes back pre 11th century; it's kinda been fought over already.
No, I disagreed with the use of the word "esentially". My point was that in the case of matadors they are equally defenseless; the matador has a sword and the bull has 2 horns and a huge weight advantage.Snipedya14 wrote:
You missed the word "essentially"Homeschtar wrote:
Heh, ok, you win. GG.kr@cker wrote:
yes, alot of times!! i win!!!I said I wasn't going to debate this, but as I pointed out before part of the reason I respect matadors more than hunters is because they are putting themselves in a situation where the animal isn't completely defenseless. Should the bull get past the sword, the matador is screwed.Dersmikner wrote:
much less an essentially defenseless animal
Went to that very same place in Barcelona on one of those USO trips. They do that to 3 bulls for one show. Atfer being disgusted by the act, I got bored and left after the second bull was killed. After one of the bulls is killed, they chain it up to some horse carriage and drag it around in circles to show off. I lost all sense of those bull fighters being skillful, especially since they don't enter the ring until the bull is practically dead from the guys that spear it while riding on their horses. The bulls don't get wasted though; they go right to the market.
OK, I thought I could be done debating this, but I guess not. Learn the culture before you speak out. The bull is not dragged around the ring to "show off", it is an honorary act towards the bull. Not all bulls are given the "privilege" of being dragged around the ring, only the especially brave ones.Mike_J wrote:
Went to that very same place in Barcelona on one of those USO trips. They do that to 3 bulls for one show. Atfer being disgusted by the act, I got bored and left after the second bull was killed. After one of the bulls is killed, they chain it up to some horse carriage and drag it around in circles to show off. I lost all sense of those bull fighters being skillful, especially since they don't enter the ring until the bull is practically dead from the guys that spear it while riding on their horses. The bulls don't get wasted though; they go right to the market.
Speak out? I wrote down what I saw, and the first bull was dragged around. What's there to debate? Sorry that you seem to get so offended, but thanks for pointing that bit of information out.
The thing to debate is that you said it was dragged around to "show off", which sounds a lot worse than what was really happening. I am not offended, I don't like the "sport", I was just pointing it out.Mike_J wrote:
Speak out? I wrote down what I saw, and the first bull was dragged around. What's there to debate? Sorry that you seem to get so offended, but thanks for pointing that bit of information out.
I agree, it is sad, even if you know the culture behind it, but knowing that the culture has respect for the bull makes it seem less cruel.Mike_J wrote:
Hehe, I imagine to the average tourist there such as myself (there were quite a bit of tourists), it only looked like what we saw: a bunch of guys trying to look as if they were heroes dragging around some bull they ganged up on with their spears and horses. You're right though, regardless of what their intent on dragging the bull around, you can't help but feel sad.
true true.Homeschtar wrote:
That matador sucked. The better matador you are, the faster and more painless you make the deaths. That guy must have been a noob matador or he just seriously messed up, beacause the better/best matadors make the deaths nearly instant.
i debated as to whether or not i should go to a bullfight wilst in spain. I opted not to in the end.
that video brought a tear to my eye
why gives them the right to torture a living breathing creature, ive never felt sorry for anything as much in my life!
why gives them the right to torture a living breathing creature, ive never felt sorry for anything as much in my life!
I guess riding horses is inhumane as well? Be serious here. Bull's buck because they're not tamed for riding, they're wild. Horses do the same thing. You have to train them. Explain how riding a horse is different from riding a bull.Bubbalo wrote:
Yeah, you've got a point. I mean, the rodeos are probably leaping for joy, not trying to throw the weight off their back. Completely humane.Dec45 wrote:
Except that the two are treated completely differently, and the latter isn't killed.
Almost as sick as whaling![n00b]Tyler wrote:
Now im going to enjoy every vid i see when those bastards get hit by them in the face and not feel sorry for those sick bastards that can do that.
Eso es muy enfermo
Xbone Stormsurgezz
eh not really. While you do need a bull or horse that has the will to buck, the strap tightened around the flank in the rear right before the back legs. This pisses them off even more, making them buck as you see in a rodeo. I have seen my share of them, odnt get me wrong, and I see no correlation between that, and bull"fighting"Dec45 wrote:
I guess riding horses is inhumane as well? Be serious here. Bull's buck because they're not tamed for riding, they're wild. Horses do the same thing. You have to train them. Explain how riding a horse is different from riding a bull.Bubbalo wrote:
Yeah, you've got a point. I mean, the rodeos are probably leaping for joy, not trying to throw the weight off their back. Completely humane.Dec45 wrote:
Except that the two are treated completely differently, and the latter isn't killed.
That is sickening, anyone who think thats right has a serious problem
I've seen bulls and horses literally eager to get into the stockade and prepped for a rider, they're not dumb, they know exactly what's expected of them, I daresay they enjoy the rodeos.
Hey man, that's fine with me. I wouldn't think for a second to tell you how to kill your prey, but I just don't see a huge difference in what you described, and bullfighting. Bullfighting is hunting of the past. The bull gets a chance to kill its predator, and the matador must use the tools of history. It is an homage to their forefathers, which is why it is tradition. The thing that people seem to be ignoring here, is that for FAR better then most of our time on this Earth, humans did not consider killing an animal with spears and swords to be cruel. It was life. The same as a pack of lions mauling a wildebeest, is just simply life. People here are basically asking that we completely surrender our past to these spoiled notions of killing with modern technology. I'm not on some trip about being above nature. We are barbaric animals. It's not like people are fighting bulls everywhere. You don't hear anyone complaining about the hunting going on in some areas of Africa or South America, do you? No one's trying to ship them guns so they can be humane. Because being humane in this sense, is basically being non-human. It's a denial of the tens of thousands of years of hunting. People bullfighting hold great respect for that animal, and give it a chance to fight back. They also donate the meat to charity. Those two things alone are more then any hunter here can say. So if you're against fighting a bull yourself, or watching others, that's understandable. You're entitled to your right to hunt how you feel is better or more efficient. But don't ask people to deny their past, as if it's not a natural way of life humans have been designed for. The invention of guns have made people so soft.kr@cker wrote:
well the thing is with boars that they have a thick plate of gristle starting behind the skull and protecting much of it's primary organs, i've seen some with rather large caliber rifle rounds embedded in their backs, in fact my dad and our neighbor dropped one in the everglades with 3 rounds, only to find someone had already shot it once before they got it. it was infected and couldn't be eaten. a knife is about the only sure way to drop one.Dec45 wrote:
I'm certainly not trying to condemn the sport you're describing, but I fail to see how siccing pit bulls on a wild boar, then stabbing it is any better then puncturing a bull's shoulders and back of neck, then stabbing it. They in fact sound very much alike. Hunting sports.kr@cker wrote:
usually pin it in with pit bulls, they're trained to immobilize it
First off,Dec45 wrote:
Hey man, that's fine with me. I wouldn't think for a second to tell you how to kill your prey, but I just don't see a huge difference in what you described, and bullfighting. Bullfighting is hunting of the past. The bull gets a chance to kill its predator, and the matador must use the tools of history. It is an homage to their forefathers, which is why it is tradition. The thing that people seem to be ignoring here, is that for FAR better then most of our time on this Earth, humans did not consider killing an animal with spears and swords to be cruel. It was life. The same as a pack of lions mauling a wildebeest, is just simply life. People here are basically asking that we completely surrender our past to these spoiled notions of killing with modern technology. I'm not on some trip about being above nature. We are barbaric animals. It's not like people are fighting bulls everywhere. You don't hear anyone complaining about the hunting going on in some areas of Africa or South America, do you? No one's trying to ship them guns so they can be humane. Because being humane in this sense, is basically being non-human. It's a denial of the tens of thousands of years of hunting. People bullfighting hold great respect for that animal, and give it a chance to fight back. They also donate the meat to charity. Those two things alone are more then any hunter here can say. So if you're against fighting a bull yourself, or watching others, that's understandable. You're entitled to your right to hunt how you feel is better or more efficient. But don't ask people to deny their past, as if it's not a natural way of life humans have been designed for. The invention of guns have made people so soft.
Times have changed. Someone gets strep throat, should we let them die of infection? I mean it is the way we have done it for thousands of years right?
And those people in africa that still use spears and swords, they are killing for the entrainment right? No wait...that is to eat.
Give it a chance to fight back? You mean put it in a ring and have 20-30 guys sit around to kill it as soon as it starts to actually fight back at the matador?
Haha, you are kidding right? Like I said, I guess anti-biotics have made us soft too. People in remote countries die of infection, whats wrong with that right?Dec45 wrote:
The invention of guns have made people so soft.
You call it tradition, I call it bullshit.