BF2S Forums For those still in Denial

lowing wrote:

jonsimon wrote:

lowing wrote:

That would be only because that is the way you need to disect it to try and make an argument. You know exactly what I am saying

I know what you said, and I know where the logic leads. If you're saying saddam held terrorists at bay, which I can't argue yea or nay, then it follows we must be total fucktards for removing him in a self proclaimed war on terror.

No he was removed for breaking the peace treaty. The terrorists that are there now is a seporate issue we are trying to dealing with. We werew not combating terrorism in Iraq at first.

Yeah, but you gotta admit that we should've seen this one coming...  Sunnis and Shiites had been killing each other before Saddam rose to power.

I really hope the events of BF2142 come true. Then all that will be left are some places in Europe and North Africa, with only soldiers from the EU and soldiers from the "PAC". No more islamic extremists. No more idiots. No more noobs.

There are quite a few Islamic extremists in North Africa, actually...

Turquoise wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

I don't have faith in instilling democracy in the Middle East, but I do have faith in killing off a lot of extremists.  We just have to be willing to up the brutality factor in order to really keep these people in line.  It's not the most compassionate thing to do, but let's face it.  It took someone like Saddam to keep Iraq in one piece, and we're going to have to be somewhat like Saddam to actually bring order back to Iraq.  These people aren't ready for democracy.

that opinion is held by a lot of troops actually

I wouldn't doubt it...  I don't even want to think of what kind of restraint they have to have due to the "official rules of engagement."  It's why I'm glad I'm not in the military.  Aside from the threat of being blown to bits by IEDs, I also don't think I could handle having mobs of people insult me while I'm holding a loaded M16.

you have described two eventys that have happened to me on more than one occasion

*WAR STORY ALERT*

We were pulling security for a bunch of engineers just outside of sadr city, a town called sabacsul or some shit.  Everything was fine and dandy.  I was driving the bradley and we were parked so it was a pretty easy mission.  just sit there while the engineers did their job, peice of cake.  we set up our perimeter and just waited for the engineers. Im busy reading a maxim and a stuff and eating my MRE boneless porkchop.  A huge croud of iraqis shows up and like usual, pretty friendly with us.  They ask for mre's, we give em that and bottles of our own platoon water, ya know, hearts and minds.  well, anyways the engineers are busy blowing shit up ( this was a huge empty bit of land outside sadr city limits with nothing but dust, grass and power lines) I almost wanna say we were in the middle of a mine field.  there were menacing signs attached to sticks in the ground with arabic words all over.  textbook sign for locals trying to warn off a minefield.  But I was told later on that those were property stakes or something, but why were engineers blowing shit up I wonder? anyways, I pass out the maxim and point to  all the titties these cats usually dont get a chance to see in their day to day lives.  I give em the stuff, cus I read it already but I still wanted my maxim and they were mad that I didnt give it to them.  SO.....THESE FUCKERS START THROWING ROCKS AND TALKING SHIT.  mostly kids but the older guys started to show up and replace the kids.  A GOD DAMN FUCKING ROCK HITS THE ARMOR RIGHT NEXT TO MY OPEN HATCH....sorry, Im still pissed off about the incident.  Im begging, BEGGING my BC to let pop off a few warning shots.  the rocks were getting thrown at a higher rate now and more older "targets" type of assholes were doing the throwing.


I never got to shoot, my BC had his reasons but then he gets out the track and pops off a few rounds at the feet of one of those assholes.  He goes away for five minutes then comes back with more assholes to start throwing rocks.  these arent kids.  to end the story, engineers did their job, we did ours. nobody got shot, nobody got killed.  but that was a situation ready to happen, and I all i did was bite my lower lip and take it.


Id rather not talk about IED's right now though

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

that opinion is held by a lot of troops actually

I wouldn't doubt it...  I don't even want to think of what kind of restraint they have to have due to the "official rules of engagement."  It's why I'm glad I'm not in the military.  Aside from the threat of being blown to bits by IEDs, I also don't think I could handle having mobs of people insult me while I'm holding a loaded M16.

you have described two eventys that have happened to me on more than one occasion

*WAR STORY ALERT*

We were pulling security for a bunch of engineers just outside of sadr city, a town called sabacsul or some shit.  Everything was fine and dandy.  I was driving the bradley and we were parked so it was a pretty easy mission.  just sit there while the engineers did their job, peice of cake.  we set up our perimeter and just waited for the engineers. Im busy reading a maxim and a stuff and eating my MRE boneless porkchop.  A huge croud of iraqis shows up and like usual, pretty friendly with us.  They ask for mre's, we give em that and bottles of our own platoon water, ya know, hearts and minds.  well, anyways the engineers are busy blowing shit up ( this was a huge empty bit of land outside sadr city limits with nothing but dust, grass and power lines) I almost wanna say we were in the middle of a mine field.  there were menacing signs attached to sticks in the ground with arabic words all over.  textbook sign for locals trying to warn off a minefield.  But I was told later on that those were property stakes or something, but why were engineers blowing shit up I wonder? anyways, I pass out the maxim and point to  all the titties these cats usually dont get a chance to see in their day to day lives.  I give em the stuff, cus I read it already but I still wanted my maxim and they were mad that I didnt give it to them.  SO.....THESE FUCKERS START THROWING ROCKS AND TALKING SHIT.  mostly kids but the older guys started to show up and replace the kids.  A GOD DAMN FUCKING ROCK HITS THE ARMOR RIGHT NEXT TO MY OPEN HATCH....sorry, Im still pissed off about the incident.  Im begging, BEGGING my BC to let pop off a few warning shots.  the rocks were getting thrown at a higher rate now and more older "targets" type of assholes were doing the throwing.


I never got to shoot, my BC had his reasons but then he gets out the track and pops off a few rounds at the feet of one of those assholes.  He goes away for five minutes then comes back with more assholes to start throwing rocks.  these arent kids.  to end the story, engineers did their job, we did ours. nobody got shot, nobody got killed.  but that was a situation ready to happen, and I all i did was bite my lower lip and take it.


Id rather not talk about IED's right now though

I've seen the videos on youtube of the fuckers who throw rocks and bust windshields of caravans that travel to and from refineries and the like.  I'll put it this way.  If I were president, I'd give the military the green light to make examples of a few of these dicks.  You have to show these people who's boss, since force is one of the few things they respect.

Calling people "brainwashed" is very convenient.  But unfortunately for us (and you) just because you don't believe in your de facto American relilgion (i.e. Christianity) strongly that doesn't mean that Muslims feel weakly about thiers.  They have nothing to live for so they are highly motivated.  And our presence in the Middle East does nothing but fuel their hate.  That is why I hate our involvement.  But I definitely believe we need to defend ourselves as a country - our own soil.

The extremits believe that the Jihad is on and they are going to fight it.  Just because you don't want to fight or don't want to see it doens't mean they won't bring the war to YOU.  Do you people just ignore what the Islamic youth have done in Europe?  France?  Etc.?  I hate to say this (and I think it's a little crazy to equate the Islamic extremists to Nazi Germany) but the countries that allowed Hitler free access got trampled over.  The same thing is happening to this European countries who sympathize with the Islamic people. 

These people were allowed free access in these countries without any requirement to become assimilated into the society so they truly feel no obligation to obey/respect these countries' laws - and these Muslims AREN'T obeying - they are destroying.

Thats NOT made up information and you don't need a propaganda film to read the factual accounts of this happening right now. 

What truly frightens me is that America is doing much the same thing with the border problem.  We've been soooo lenient and soooo sympathetic that illegals no longer even respect our laws.  I read about an illegals march in Ohio where they were openly DEMANDING the right to get driver's licenses!  And when an official in the homeland security office was asked about these kinds of issues, he basically went limp saying something like: "Well we have many complex issues here.  Do we deport the parents but allow the legally born baby citizens to stay?  Or deport them too?  It's a complex issue."

NO KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!!!

But since we have never taken a strong stand on maintaining the sovereignty of our laws and country we're going to eventually cave in.  Since when did our government agree to be the WORLD'S WELFARE PROVIDER????

So, I, for one, have no doubt that we are target of Islamic extremists - I just fear that our government is going to make thier jobs very easy when they finally establish a presence here. 

But, folks, this will happen:

15  as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16  And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17  and that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Some day, a power, a leader, a faction is going to force their will on the earth and people like you who say we're brainwashed will have to fall in line and obey if you want to buy, sell, eat, live.

For me, it's just interesting to see amazing events like this all unfolding before us.

URE_DED wrote:

Calling people "brainwashed" is very convenient.  But unfortunately for us (and you) just because you don't believe in your de facto American relilgion (i.e. Christianity) strongly that doesn't mean that Muslims feel weakly about thiers.  They have nothing to live for so they are highly motivated.  And our presence in the Middle East does nothing but fuel their hate.  That is why I hate our involvement.  But I definitely believe we need to defend ourselves as a country - our own soil.

I totally agree about the limiting of our interactions to domestic defense.  For the moment though...  we need to do something about Iraq.

URE_DED wrote:

The extremits believe that the Jihad is on and they are going to fight it.  Just because you don't want to fight or don't want to see it doens't mean they won't bring the war to YOU.  Do you people just ignore what the Islamic youth have done in Europe?  France?  Etc.?  I hate to say this (and I think it's a little crazy to equate the Islamic extremists to Nazi Germany) but the countries that allowed Hitler free access got trampled over.  The same thing is happening to this European countries who sympathize with the Islamic people.

I pretty much agree here too.

URE_DED wrote:

These people were allowed free access in these countries without any requirement to become assimilated into the society so they truly feel no obligation to obey/respect these countries' laws - and these Muslims AREN'T obeying - they are destroying.

Thats NOT made up information and you don't need a propaganda film to read the factual accounts of this happening right now.

I think we need to clarify something here.  The liberal Muslims that come to the First World are good people.  They understand the principle of a free society, freedom of speech, and various other Western ideas.  It's the orthodox ones we need to be wary of.  This is an important distinction to make, because the more we show that assimilation leads to prosperity and a better life, the more likely we'll have them join us and Westernize.

URE_DED wrote:

What truly frightens me is that America is doing much the same thing with the border problem.  We've been soooo lenient and soooo sympathetic that illegals no longer even respect our laws.  I read about an illegals march in Ohio where they were openly DEMANDING the right to get driver's licenses!  And when an official in the homeland security office was asked about these kinds of issues, he basically went limp saying something like: "Well we have many complex issues here.  Do we deport the parents but allow the legally born baby citizens to stay?  Or deport them too?  It's a complex issue."

Simple issue, actually.  Change the law to say that the only way someone can be born into citizenship is if at least one parent is already a citizen.  Otherwise, they have to be naturalized.  This will stop the problem of having people try to give birth here just for the citizenship bullshit.

URE_DED wrote:

But since we have never taken a strong stand on maintaining the sovereignty of our laws and country we're going to eventually cave in.  Since when did our government agree to be the WORLD'S WELFARE PROVIDER????

So, I, for one, have no doubt that we are target of Islamic extremists - I just fear that our government is going to make thier jobs very easy when they finally establish a presence here. 

But, folks, this will happen:

15  as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16  And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17  and that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Some day, a power, a leader, a faction is going to force their will on the earth and people like you who say we're brainwashed will have to fall in line and obey if you want to buy, sell, eat, live.

For me, it's just interesting to see amazing events like this all unfolding before us.

This is where we digress.  Revelations is just as nutty as the 72 virgins bullshit that the Islamists believe in.  Both the West and the rest of the world need to wake up and realize that a lot of religion is bullshit.  It's much of the source of this entire terror conflict.  When people start believing in more rational things, there will be less war....

Last edited by Turquoise (2006-11-01 19:14:02)

And being an American I can tell for a fact that anybody who trys to say that America is a Cristian country gets yelled at.

lavadisk wrote:

And being an American I can tell for a fact that anybody who trys to say that America is a Cristian country gets yelled at.

Well, it is true to an extent.  Admittedly, much of our law has religious influences based on Christianity, but the freedom of religion thankfully balanced that out.

Turquoise wrote:

This is where we digress.  Revelations is just as nutty as the 72 virgins bullshit that the Islamists believe in.  Both the West and the rest of the world need to wake up and realize that a lot of religion is bullshit.  It's much of the source of this entire terror conflict.  When people start believing in more rational things, there will be less war....

The difference between Christianity's thoughts on the end of the world and Islam's are as follows:

Christians look forward to the return of Christ, but we know we have no power over that at all.

In direct contrast, Muslims believe they can bring about the return of the 12th imam and an era of Islamic "justice" and hasten it by the creating chaos on earth.  We all know what that means and Ahmadinejad is in full agreement with the above. 

Which is more scary?  I'd say the latter.  In your opinion, what more rational things will bring about less war?

Stingray24 wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

This is where we digress.  Revelations is just as nutty as the 72 virgins bullshit that the Islamists believe in.  Both the West and the rest of the world need to wake up and realize that a lot of religion is bullshit.  It's much of the source of this entire terror conflict.  When people start believing in more rational things, there will be less war....

The difference between Christianity's thoughts on the end of the world and Islam's are as follows:

Christians look forward to the return of Christ, but we know we have no power over that at all.

In direct contrast, Muslims believe they can bring about the return of the 12th imam and an era of Islamic "justice" and hasten it by the creating chaos on earth.  We all know what that means and Ahmadinejad is in full agreement with the above. 

Which is more scary?  I'd say the latter.  In your opinion, what more rational things will bring about less war?

More rational things...  Believing in a more adaptable version of religion.  In other words, say, following Christianity, but not focusing on this rapture crap, and not bugging people about their personal lives.  Basically, people minding their own business more, since we live in a free country.

Oh, yeah, I do agree that all the annoying old people who try and feck with other things that they dont agree on are stupid and just use their religion as an excuse. Even know that thats an annoying fact of america I dont think that that has anything to do with the war.