Poll

If Extra-Terrestrials are found, does this disprove creationism?

Yes38%38% - 36
No44%44% - 41
Unsure17%17% - 16
Total: 93
PRiMACORD
Member
+190|6625|Home of the Escalade Herds

CameronPoe wrote:

They'll just fucking say that 'god' created aliens. He just didn't mention it in his last blockbuster publication.


Yes and when they start exterminating us, it will be Armageddon. Life after death is a strong motivational tool. The fact is, not believing in an afterlife is a scary thing.


Who wants to die and simply cease to exist?

I sure as hell don't but sadly, thats whats most likely going to happen, boo hoo.

Who wants to die and go to Heaven where you can magically have anything you want and meet all your dead homies?

Sign me up for that and hooray for ignorance.

Reality is harsh, thats why we have weed, booze and the bible.
Miller
IT'S MILLER TIME!
+271|6756|United States of America

CameronPoe wrote:

PRiMACORD wrote:

Creationsim is a bunch of backwards bullshit with or without aliens.
I nominate this trooper for the MOH. Seriously - if I had any karma left to give, you'd be getting it.
I nominate him for .... nothing.
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6519|Πάϊ
Believers don't believe in proof. Thus disproving them is not an option.
ƒ³
liquix
Member
+51|6454|Peoples Republic of Portland

Digital Aura wrote:

liquix wrote:

The talk of Giants is strange... Without any literel reference to ET life in the bible, any correlation made from the Bible to these other lifeforms would be taken as foolishness and without logic.
Actually...there is literal reference as pointed out above. The SONS OF GOD ....and the daughters of men. Why the distinction? Probably SONS of GOD are extra terrestrial (being angels that is) as opposed to humans. Note that Christ himself was refered to as a Son of Man as well as the Son of God.

Here's something to chew on. It's estimated that for every grain of sand on the planet earth, there is an entire galaxy in the universe. Each galaxy containing billions of stars. This number is so massive, your brain pretty much just shuts off when attempting to think about it (heh.) With such a large number of stars, is it silly to think that life would exist nowhere else in the universe? Seems like a waste of space without it.
It is also estimated that the odds for having conditions where a planet is habitable, in a life sustaining solar system that is the proper distance from the (a) sun, with the right proportions of nitrogen, oxygen, etc to maintain cellular life and evolution of cells is astronomical. The odds actually are that there IS NO LIFE elsewhere. (Google the Drake Equation)
Ok, so we are assuming angels are from a different planet? To my knowledge the word Heaven means "sky." For arguments sake, then if ET's were found to exist then would they be considered Angels by Bible definition?

As to your second quote, what do you think. All of those stars are just there? All of those countless solar systems and galaxies with gazillions of planets...there is none which contain life? even if .00000001 percent of planets contained life...that would still mean millions of life harboring worlds out there.
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6519|Πάϊ

PRiMACORD wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

They'll just fucking say that 'god' created aliens. He just didn't mention it in his last blockbuster publication.


Yes and when they start exterminating us, it will be Armageddon. Life after death is a strong motivational tool. The fact is, not believing in an afterlife is a scary thing.


Who wants to die and simply cease to exist?

I sure as hell don't but sadly, thats whats most likely going to happen, boo hoo.

Who wants to die and go to Heaven where you can magically have anything you want and meet all your dead homies?

Sign me up for that and hooray for ignorance.

Reality is harsh, thats why we have weed, booze and the bible.
QFE since:
You may not karma the same person in a 24 hour period.
ƒ³
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6491|Northern California

liquix wrote:

Ironchef,

I'm not bashing you so don't worry just asking a question. According to your belief; why does the bible not mention the other worlds and experiments throughout the cosmos of God's creation? To clarify, I'm talking about straightforward references....Few of which exist in a book which has been written and re-written almost continuously since it's creation....but still.
Well since you worded your's nicely (unlike Poe the hater), I'll answer you.

My beliefs fully encompass a God that continues to create.  After all, if you did create a world like this, would you stop? 

As for biblical mention, we don't know.  God didn't make the bible, and neither did one man or translator.  The first bible (thus named in latin "biblio" i think, is a word meaning "libarary of books"), compiled by a roman emporer deciding that christianity should be added to roman governance because of obvious political gain.  Constantine had his priests read from the many, many writings "the church" had gathered throughout the centuries (such writings include genuine manuscripts and copies of actual prophetic writings).  What he liked, he had added to this book.  When it was done, there were 66 books, and the title "bible" was slapped on it, and it was so.  But guess what, there's many, many writings taht are missing.  Even in the bible, I've found 18 different references to writings from prophets that are mentioned, but not included in the Bible.  Of considerable significance is the book of rememberance that Adam wrote.  THis would surely be a better copy of the creative periods than are Moses' copies.  And who knows, other prophets may have been given that unique gift of seeing the beginning through the end too and could have written down what the creation was like.  But as it is, we have a very short, very incomplete narration of what the creation was like.

In the new testament, the first four books have descriptions of the ministry of Jesus from birth to resurrection.  having 4 perspectives (written after the fact, from four seperate people at different times and for different purposes) provides a very full view if the life of the Savior.  I'm sure if there were more writings of the creation, mention of other worlds being created would be found.  But as it is, this is a thing assumed and spoken of through revelation to those who study such things. 

I hope that helps.

This is where revelation comes in.  This is where the Holy Ghost comes in.  In short, through these means, one can know what is true in the bible, and what is...poor translation?  What is missing?  What context was the writer's intent, etc.
jsnipy
...
+3,276|6523|...

something had to make them (unless of course they made us)
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6529|Global Command
So your holy ghost tells you what is right and what should be ignored?\\
What if my holy ghost disagrees with your holy ghost.
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6491|Northern California

ATG wrote:

So your holy ghost tells you what is right and what should be ignored?\\
What if my holy ghost disagrees with your holy ghost.
Hey, thanks for giving me this karma...

Hey chief, I was like you once, mouthy, incendiary and mindlessly partisan. I got banned, and after my return I learned the value of these forums. Your consistantly acting like a retard lately, ATG

Truly, you have learned the value of forums and it's good to see YOU don't act mouthy, incindiery, mindless, or like a retard!

Way to go sweetcakes!

Digital Aura wrote:

I'm a Theistic Evolutionist. That means I believe that God created all things in the beginning, like the Bible says....but the mechanism for creation was the process of evolution. I don't take the Creation story literally, and many Christians also understand that, as in Revelations and other books, it is written so that the readers of that day might understand it in non-scientific terms. It wasn't meant to be taken literally or scientifically.
That said, if God created humans over the course of millions/billions of years...you would have to realize that God himself is outside of space and time. So in essence, he has nothing to do with finite time...one year is as a thousand ...its all the same to Him. Being outside of time and space, who knows what else He created...maybe extra terrestrials. But I doubt it.
One thing that most Christians do...that I wish they didnt do...is that they fill in the gaps with God. In other words, if something doesnt come right out and say...God created other beings as well...then they assume that God did not and try to make the bible conform to this thinking. Its the same with evolution. Its the same with many things. God gave us science...God gave us brains. I think he wanted us to 'evolve' to a point where we would naturally figure out the secrets and mysteries of the genome, of life, and His complex creation. I doubt he wanted us to stop thinking and force ideals onto each other based on literal interpretations of His word.

edit: to comment on the "Giants" above, these were called the 'Sons of God' and they took the 'Daughters of Men'. I have researched this at great length and the Hebrew text for these terms is ambiguous, although it would seem to indicate that these were Angels and earthly women. Note in the bible that the only angels named are in the masculine form (Michael,Gabriel, Jewish Rabbis have a long tradition of names all masculine for angels).
It could be that the Nephilim (google it) are the descendents of Angels and women which seem to have taken a rather gargantuous form through this unnatural coupling. Goliath was one such giant. If it was angels (again, the bible does NOT come right out and say it, so I will not fill in these gaps by stating with certainty) then they were likely the 'fallen angels' that were cast out of heaven for plotting with Lucifer.
How do you know He is not a She?

I love starting fights between religious people. They haven't seen the light. No, I don't mean the "holy light," I mean the bullshit bulb above them.
liquix
Member
+51|6454|Peoples Republic of Portland
Analogy in a round about way....

Rest of the world: "Islam promotes violence!"

Islamic Radicals: "Bullshit it does! Let's Jihad these sob's!"

Rest of the world: " ^____^ "

ATG 0 Chef 1
PuckMercury
6 x 9 = 42
+298|6527|Portland, OR USA
I'll play devil's advocate.  It amuses me.

No, I won't take the obvious route and say that God invented aliens.  That's just too easy.  A slightly less obvious route.  A route of wilful ignorance.  There is simply no direct mention of aliens.  As such, no conclusive end can be reached simply by the discovery of life elsewhere.  It is not inherent in the general ideology of creationism that everything which exists was created in that moment.  In order to grasp this, one must take a step back from literal biblical interpretation - which is ludicrous to by into from any perspective.

For the record, I believe in a guided evolution, not pure creationism or evolution.
jonsimon
Member
+224|6495
At one time, life on other planets would have destoryed the catholic church. Now-a-days, though, christians are so flexible with their religion it wouldn't matter.
PuckMercury
6 x 9 = 42
+298|6527|Portland, OR USA
I think it's indicitive of finding what is important in your faith and not sweating the small stuff.
URE_DED
BF2s US Server Admin
+76|6619|inside the recesses of your...

PRiMACORD wrote:

Creationsim is a bunch of backwards bullshit with or without aliens.
Since there is SOOOOOO much evidence for macro-evolution? 

Oh right.  There is none.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6601|132 and Bush

Go ask a priest.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
chrispchikin
Member
+3|6411
"ATG, you forgot the best one. Go read the first chapter of Ezekiel, its pretty creepy. Heres a little of it.

5 Also from within it came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance: they had the likeness of a man. 6 Each one had four faces, and each one had four wings. 7 Their legs were straight, and the soles of their feet were like the soles of calves’ feet. They sparkled like the color of burnished bronze. 8 The hands of a man were under their wings on their four sides; and each of the four had faces and wings. 9 Their wings touched one another. The creatures did not turn when they went, but each one went straight forward.
10 As for the likeness of their faces, each had the face of a man; each of the four had the face of a lion on the right side, each of the four had the face of an ox on the left side, and each of the four had the face of an eagle. 11 Thus were their faces. Their wings stretched upward; two wings of each one touched one another, and two covered their bodies. 12 And each one went straight forward; they went wherever the spirit wanted to go, and they did not turn when they went.
13 As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, like the appearance of torches going back and forth among the living creatures. The fire was bright, and out of the fire went lightning. 14 And the living creatures ran back and forth, in appearance like a flash of lightning.
15 Now as I looked at the living creatures, behold, a wheel was on the earth beside each living creature with its four faces. 16 The appearance of the wheels and their workings was like the color of beryl, and all four had the same likenes"






Hey Guys, dont take stuff out of context...this was in a dream Ezekiel had...its symbolic of stuff
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6468

Digital Aura wrote:

I'm a Theistic Evolutionist. That means I believe that God created all things in the beginning, like the Bible says....but the mechanism for creation was the process of evolution. I don't take the Creation story literally, and many Christians also understand that, as in Revelations and other books, it is written so that the readers of that day might understand it in non-scientific terms. It wasn't meant to be taken literally or scientifically.
That said, if God created humans over the course of millions/billions of years...you would have to realize that God himself is outside of space and time. So in essence, he has nothing to do with finite time...one year is as a thousand ...its all the same to Him. Being outside of time and space, who knows what else He created...maybe extra terrestrials. But I doubt it.
One thing that most Christians do...that I wish they didnt do...is that they fill in the gaps with God. In other words, if something doesnt come right out and say...God created other beings as well...then they assume that God did not and try to make the bible conform to this thinking. Its the same with evolution. Its the same with many things. God gave us science...God gave us brains. I think he wanted us to 'evolve' to a point where we would naturally figure out the secrets and mysteries of the genome, of life, and His complex creation. I doubt he wanted us to stop thinking and force ideals onto each other based on literal interpretations of His word.
I agree. But then again I did get an A in Beckology so I have some pretty abnormal veiws on religion.
EricTViking
Yes, I am Queeg
+48|6552|UK

liquix wrote:

The talk of Giants is strange. But since it doesnt mention another planet, they are in-fact terrestrials. It seems like if there were ET's who came to earth, there would be alot of filling in the gaps relating this to religion. To not disprove creationism, it must be deemed that God created these beings. Without any literel reference to ET life in the bible, any correlation made from the Bible to these other lifeforms would be taken as foolishness and without logic.

Here's something to chew on. It's estimated that for every grain of sand on the planet earth, there is an entire galaxy in the universe. Each galaxy containing billions of stars. This number is so massive, your brain pretty much just shuts off when attempting to think about it (heh.) With such a large number of stars, is it silly to think that life would exist nowhere else in the universe? Seems like a waste of space without it.
On the subject of the scale of the universe, a conservative estimate for the number of planets in the universe would be 10,000,000,000,000,000 (according to the first site I found in google).

So if it takes god 6 days to bash out your typical earth sized planet ( call it 7 including his day off ), it would take him 70,000,000,000,000,000 days to create the universe, and that excludes stars and other non-planety objects. 

This equates to 191,780,821,917,808 years. Since another equally top ten google hit reveals the age of the universe at 14,000,000,000 years, god couldn't possibly have made everything in the time given hence creationism is disproven and needn't be discussed any further.

And to think, all you had to do was google for it ;-)
[F7F7]KiNG_KaDaFFHi
Why walk when you can dance?
+77|6587|sWEEDen
I always thought Creationsim was hard fact. Kinda like most other religious stuff. =P
jimbo21
Member
+11|6652
the first line in the bible "in the begining,when god created the heavens and the earth". if he created the heavens (meaning the universe) how would that disprove creationism?
Ikarti
Banned - for ever.
+231|6709|Wilmington, DE, US
The Holy Ghost got outsourced to India. He was getting paid too much and doing too little over here. Sorry.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6529|Global Command

IRONCHEF wrote:

ATG wrote:

So your holy ghost tells you what is right and what should be ignored?\\
What if my holy ghost disagrees with your holy ghost.
Hey, thanks for giving me this karma...

Hey chief, I was like you once, mouthy, incendiary and mindlessly partisan. I got banned, and after my return I learned the value of these forums. Your consistantly acting like a retard lately, ATG

Truly, you have learned the value of forums and it's good to see YOU don't act mouthy, incindiery, mindless, or like a retard!

Way to go sweetcakes!
Thanks buttface!
And your welcome.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6405|North Carolina
I'll echo what a few others have said.  Finding aliens won't disprove creationism -- science already did that.  Creationism is extremely flawed and scientifically dubious.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6529|Global Command
Ya, but the By Ball sez itz so.

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