I just showed you how the SPECIFIC wording of it rules unlawful combatants not protected under it, care to quote part of it that does.... or where it says basic human rights to ALL people? I didn't see thatUnOriginalNuttah wrote:
The Geneva convention guarantees basic human rights to all people, including criminals/terrorists.AlbertWesker[RE] wrote:
You were saying.
Yeah, you're right, it is your problem, I'm only looking at the facts at hand, not offering my opinion at all, if you don't like it than write a new convention and have people sign it, because Geneva specifically only talks, with most regards to PoW's and those associated directly with them, or indirectly and in proximity. I think you need to actually read it friend.UnOriginalNuttah wrote:
My problem is putting people in a grey area outside the conventional protections of the human rights conventions and outside the PoW conventions
Edit: Also, without mention of civilians, why do you give a damn about protecting someone under Geneva that doesn't even agree to it in the first place...?
Last edited by AlbertWesker[RE] (2006-09-07 05:49:43)
The essential rules of international humanitarian law
Persons who do not or can no longer take part in the hostilities are entitled to respect for their life and for their physical and mental integrity. Such persons must in all circumstances be protected and treated with humanity, without any unfavorable distinction whatever.
It is forbidden to kill or wound an adversary who surrenders or who can no longer take part in the fighting.
The wounded and sick must be collected and cared for by the party to the conflict which has them in its power. Medical personnel and medical establishments, transports and equipment must be spared. The red cross or red crescent on a white background is the sign protecting such persons and objects and must be respected.
Captured combatants and civilians who find themselves under the authority of the adverse party are entitled to respect for their life, their dignity, their personal rights and their political, religious and other convictions. They must be protected against all acts of violence or reprisal. They are entitled to exchange news with their families and receive aid.
Everyone must enjoy basic judicial guarantees and no one may be held responsible for an act he has not committed. No one may be subjected to physical or mental torture or to cruel or degrading corporal punishment or other treatment.
Neither the parties to the conflict nor members of their armed forces have an unlimited rights to choose methods and means of warfare. It is forbidden to use weapons or methods of warfare that are likely to cause unnecessary losses or excessive suffering.
The parties to a conflict must at all times distinguish between the civilian population and combatants in order to spare the civilian population and civilian property. Neither the civilian population as whole nor individual civilians may be attacked. Attacks may be made solely against military objectives.
People are innocent until proved guilty - civilians snatched by US squads and whisked off to secret jails to be tortured are "suspected" terrorists - which means they are citizens and are still afforded basic human rights - you can't hold them for years without charge like is happening in Cuba - you either charge them & prosecute them or you release them
Persons who do not or can no longer take part in the hostilities are entitled to respect for their life and for their physical and mental integrity. Such persons must in all circumstances be protected and treated with humanity, without any unfavorable distinction whatever.
It is forbidden to kill or wound an adversary who surrenders or who can no longer take part in the fighting.
The wounded and sick must be collected and cared for by the party to the conflict which has them in its power. Medical personnel and medical establishments, transports and equipment must be spared. The red cross or red crescent on a white background is the sign protecting such persons and objects and must be respected.
Captured combatants and civilians who find themselves under the authority of the adverse party are entitled to respect for their life, their dignity, their personal rights and their political, religious and other convictions. They must be protected against all acts of violence or reprisal. They are entitled to exchange news with their families and receive aid.
Everyone must enjoy basic judicial guarantees and no one may be held responsible for an act he has not committed. No one may be subjected to physical or mental torture or to cruel or degrading corporal punishment or other treatment.
Neither the parties to the conflict nor members of their armed forces have an unlimited rights to choose methods and means of warfare. It is forbidden to use weapons or methods of warfare that are likely to cause unnecessary losses or excessive suffering.
The parties to a conflict must at all times distinguish between the civilian population and combatants in order to spare the civilian population and civilian property. Neither the civilian population as whole nor individual civilians may be attacked. Attacks may be made solely against military objectives.
People are innocent until proved guilty - civilians snatched by US squads and whisked off to secret jails to be tortured are "suspected" terrorists - which means they are citizens and are still afforded basic human rights - you can't hold them for years without charge like is happening in Cuba - you either charge them & prosecute them or you release them
Last edited by IG-Calibre (2006-09-07 06:11:47)
Damn democrat, go cheat on your wife or something...JimmyBotswana wrote:
Yeah. Damn liberal media. If it weren't for them Gitmo would be a secret to. And Abu Ghraib. And those illegal wiretaps that are still going on. Fuck and remember Watergate. Those damn liberal media elites were playing right into the hands of the Soviets when they exposed the criminal actions of Nixon. Trying to weaken this country, those pricks. I wish the media stuck to baseball and celebrities and would stop telling me what my government is doing.HM1{N} wrote:
The prisons are secret because they are in foreign countries. Would you want to advertise "here is where we have your prisoners Al Qaeda and Taliban"? I don't think so.
I'm totally for them being secret. It keeps our soldiers and operatives safe.
I blame the media for spinning this in a negative context, some things they should just STFU about...
LOL I'm sorry but some people just shouldn't be allowed to participate in a democracy.
"There's no point for democracy when ignorance is celebrated. Majority rules don't work in mental institutions." -NOFX, The Idiots are Taking Over
Hey dude...IG-Calibre wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5321606.stm - secret prison camps, now what regime does that remind you of eh?
Don't try to make it like the holocaust with the word "camps". They are prisions... That is what you do with bad people, you put them in prisons. AND DUH THEY ARE SECRET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your an idiot.
The Geneva Convention is for UNIFORMED soldiers, not terrorists who wear civilian clothing and blow people up with car bombs. Those A-rab bastards are lucky we don't shoot them the moment they are suspect, instead of treating them like an actual army. The way you think is what is making us have difficulty in this war. Its not about political correctness, war never is, its about winning... Thats it.sergeriver wrote:
USA signed the Third Geneva Convention (the one about POW's) in 1949.Capt. Foley wrote:
The terrorists do ALOT worse to our CIVILIANS. Now while tourture I dont like a whole lot Im pretty sure we never did sign the Geneva Convention although I AM pretty sure that the Iraqis signed it. Although I might be wrong there.
http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/WebSign?Rea … 5&ps=P
I can't be bothered arguing semantics with an illiterate whab..Mr.Pieeater wrote:
Hey dude...IG-Calibre wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5321606.stm - secret prison camps, now what regime does that remind you of eh?
Don't try to make it like the holocaust with the word "camps". They are prisions... That is what you do with bad people, you put them in prisons. AND DUH THEY ARE SECRET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your an idiot.
You sure are right, and thats why we have those prisons.............because they are for people NOT covered under the Geneva convention who are actively trying to kill us.Mr.Pieeater wrote:
The Geneva Convention is for UNIFORMED soldiers, not terrorists who wear civilian clothing and blow people up with car bombs. Those A-rab bastards are lucky we don't shoot them the moment they are suspect, instead of treating them like an actual army. The way you think is what is making us have difficulty in this war. Its not about political correctness, war never is, its about winning... Thats it.sergeriver wrote:
USA signed the Third Geneva Convention (the one about POW's) in 1949.Capt. Foley wrote:
The terrorists do ALOT worse to our CIVILIANS. Now while tourture I dont like a whole lot Im pretty sure we never did sign the Geneva Convention although I AM pretty sure that the Iraqis signed it. Although I might be wrong there.
http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/WebSign?Rea … 5&ps=P
Whoa ho hoa there little Johnny! No need to argue, just realize that they are not prison camps... And maybe you should look up the definition of illiterate... Or go have a pint at the pub...IG-Calibre wrote:
I can't be bothered arguing semantics with an illiterate whab..Mr.Pieeater wrote:
Hey dude...IG-Calibre wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5321606.stm - secret prison camps, now what regime does that remind you of eh?
Don't try to make it like the holocaust with the word "camps". They are prisions... That is what you do with bad people, you put them in prisons. AND DUH THEY ARE SECRET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your an idiot.
LOL ME TO...PRiMACORD wrote:
I'm totally in shock.
not.
If you think that secret prisons to hold TERRORISTS are the same as concentration camps or the likes thereof, well than you are far too left beyond repair, even by your friendly democrats, they certainly don't want you, if you think such things. So how again are we interning our own people in our nation???IG-Calibre wrote:
I can't be bothered arguing semantics with an illiterate whab..Mr.Pieeater wrote:
Hey dude...IG-Calibre wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5321606.stm - secret prison camps, now what regime does that remind you of eh?
Don't try to make it like the holocaust with the word "camps". They are prisions... That is what you do with bad people, you put them in prisons. AND DUH THEY ARE SECRET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your an idiot.
No our illiterate friend above made the jump to concentration camp not me. prison / prison camp six of one and half a dozen of the other. it's all well and good to say that these prison camp's held only terrorists, but your basing that information on what? that your President/CIA says they are? GTFO - it's probably full of terrorists because the poor bastards have been tortured into admitting they are, your country's administration is a disgrace and shameful. Further more any European Union country found to have had these camps present on their soil or facilitated the US government in these actions deserve to be expelled and heavily sanctioned too.
Last edited by IG-Calibre (2006-09-07 07:03:47)
People that defend their country with whatever weapons they have from invaders are now considered terrorist ?
Yes we are invading IRAQ, no lib bullshit straight up fact.
Yes we are invading IRAQ, no lib bullshit straight up fact.
al-qaeda aint from iraq.alpinestar wrote:
People that defend their country with whatever weapons they have from invaders are now considered terrorist ?
Yes we are invading IRAQ, no lib bullshit straight up fact.
This US administration has betrayed the trust of several of its allies and must pay the price. Deplorable behaviour like this disgusts me - operating under the noses of friendly governments to carry out interrogation and, if Gitmo is anything to go by, torture. This betrayal of trust must be punished by the European Union - no longer should we turn a blind eye to CIA & military flights passing through our airports. The EU should publicly decry the behaviour of the United States to restore some respect we may have lost among the muslim community and the middle east and to restore respect in and value to OUR independent sovereignty. What a kick in the teeth. Not surprising at all but sickening all the same. The EU should be far more reluctant and less forthcoming in helping the USA in future, at least while this administration runs the show.
How are they secret? Seems like it's public knowledge to me.IG-Calibre wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5321606.stm - secret prison camps, now what regime does that remind you of eh?
let's not forget how they conducted themselves in Abu Ghraib either
You see when someone eventually admits to something that has happened recently, or was happening recently on an ongoing basis, the thing ceases to be a secret. It's really quite simple.M1-Lightning wrote:
How are they secret? Seems like it's public knowledge to me.IG-Calibre wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5321606.stm - secret prison camps, now what regime does that remind you of eh?
Well said.CameronPoe wrote:
This US administration has betrayed the trust of several of its allies and must pay the price. Deplorable behaviour like this disgusts me - operating under the noses of friendly governments to carry out interrogation and, if Gitmo is anything to go by, torture. This betrayal of trust must be punished by the European Union - no longer should we turn a blind eye to CIA & military flights passing through our airports. The EU should publicly decry the behaviour of the United States to restore some respect we may have lost among the muslim community and the middle east and to restore respect in and value to OUR independent sovereignty. What a kick in the teeth. Not surprising at all but sickening all the same. The EU should be far more reluctant and less forthcoming in helping the USA in future, at least while this administration runs the show.
Your ISP have blocked wikipedia for you?Mr.Pieeater wrote:
The Geneva Convention is for UNIFORMED soldiers, not terrorists who wear civilian clothing and blow people up with car bombs. Those A-rab bastards are lucky we don't shoot them the moment they are suspect, instead of treating them like an actual army. The way you think is what is making us have difficulty in this war. Its not about political correctness, war never is, its about winning... Thats it.sergeriver wrote:
USA signed the Third Geneva Convention (the one about POW's) in 1949.Capt. Foley wrote:
The terrorists do ALOT worse to our CIVILIANS. Now while tourture I dont like a whole lot Im pretty sure we never did sign the Geneva Convention although I AM pretty sure that the Iraqis signed it. Although I might be wrong there.
http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/WebSign?Rea … 5&ps=P
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_convention
The Geneva Conventions consist of four treaties formulated in Geneva, Switzerland, that set the standards for international law for humanitarian concerns.
The third convention is about POW's and fourth convention is about civilians in time of war as you may see.
They interrogated terror suspect there and did not torture, big f'n deal. PS, a lie and having bad information is not the same thing.
Last edited by Kmarion (2006-09-07 09:48:33)
Xbone Stormsurgezz
So, we must think Bush didn't know because he had bad information. Then, they must think the guy is a jerk, I don't think so.Kmarion wrote:
They interrogated terror suspect there and did not torture, big f'n deal. PS, a lie and having bad information is not the same thing.
Last edited by sergeriver (2006-09-07 09:53:22)
You are sure the prisoners are guilty simply because they are prisoners. That is very nice.deeznutz1245 wrote:
Listen, things happen every day that we never know about. We don't want to know them. I like it that way. If they are keeping us safe by torturing disgusting, civilian killing terrorists then I am ok with that. I am pretty sure that if the terrorists were not being terrorists then they would not be in their current torture prediciment. The CIA are the guys out there doing things in the shadows that allow us to sleep safe EVERY night and I wont be a faggy little baby and complain about them......I applaud them.
The only way you and all those who think like you will ever learn is if you were to become targets.
Oh how I will laugh with the sheer irony of retribution when you will be crying out about your innocence and everyone will be like: Wtf? He's in there so he must be guilty. The CIA people can't be wrong!
All totalitarian regimes rely on their peoples' ignorance and naivete. That is you.
Last edited by oug (2006-09-07 09:59:00)
ƒ³
Lied about what? Secret Prisons? WMD? GET OVER THIS OLD, SMALL-MINDED THINKING!sergeriver wrote:
He lied before, impeach him. This is worse than someone getting a blow job.
We have this little thing, we hold on a very special pedestal. It's called National Security. Ever heard of it?
Clinton was waiting and waiting to hook up with his young intern, missing multiple occasions, when the CIA had him (OBL) in their sights to take him out. For the definition of intelligence, please stop comparing President Bush to President Clinton. Especially if you aren't American. *Pft* My God.
Last edited by (T)eflon(S)hadow (2006-09-07 10:01:52)
ORLY?Kmarion wrote:
They interrogated terror suspect there and did not torture, big f'n deal. PS, a lie and having bad information is not the same thing.
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/EN … of=ENG-USA