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2006-07-13 22:32:18
imortal
Member
+240|7108|Austin, TX
Welcome to a first in what I hope will be a series of connected posts proposing improvements and changes to what bf2 could be.  I call it BF2 squared, or just BF4.  Feel free to repost anywhere you like, just please give me and BF2S some credit.

The first thing I would like imporved are the kits.  Most of the kits are fine, but can use some tweaking.  What I propose is that there be 4 classes, and inside each class, there would be 3 kits.  The 4 classes would be Special Ops, Assault, Heavy Weapons, and Support.

SPECIAL OPS class:

KIT 1) Demo:  Identical to current SpecOps kit.
KIT 2)Sniper: Identical to current Sniper kit.
KIT 3) Scout: The scout will be a fast sprinter, light armor.  Primary weapon is a MP5SD, and special weapon (kit slot 5) would be a set of binos/ laser designator.  any enemy a scout sees in his binos when he has them out show up on everyone's map, just like a UAV would.  In addition, the Scout, and Scout ONLY, can ask the commander for a preditor <new commander asset, to be covered later> which carries 2 laser guided missiles.  The scout can designate and fire those preditor missiles, or the designator can provide and instant missile lock for the bombers laser guided missiles, providing the bomber has line of sight to the target, facing target, and in missile flight range.

ASSAULT class:

KIT 1) Rifleman: This is the Assault kit, but with only an M-16a2 and hand grenades.  9 magazines for the rifle.
KIT 2) Grenadier: Identical to current Assault kit.
KIT 3) CQ Assaulter: This is similar to the rifleman kit, but has flashbangs and gas instead of smoke grenades.

HEAVY WEAPONS class:

KIT 1) Anti Armor:  Identical to the current Anti Armor kit
KIT 2) Anti Aircraft:  Identical to the Anti Armor class, but has AA missiles instead of AT missiles.  Lock on and damage same as AA vehicle, reload and ammo capacity same as AT kit.
KIT 3) Mortarman:  This kit provides a special weapon of a mortar.  can only be used kneeling and stationary.  CAnnot move or stand when mortar is equiped!!  Pretty rough sight, and only average accuracy, but can lob mortar rounds 100m (in-game distance).  1 round every 3 seconds, carries 5 rounds.  Shotgun as primary weapon.  This kit can gather a lot of kills... but has a deadly potential for TKs, and you cannot move, dodge, or hide while you are using the mortar.  Each mortar has about 4 times the power of a rifle grenade, with 3 times the burst range (or about half as poweerful as a single artillery burst)

SUPPORT class:

KIT 1) Machinegunner: Identical to the current Support kit.
KIT 2) Medic: Identical to the current Medic kit.
KIT 3) Engineer: Identical to the current Engineer kit.



Well, that is it for the beginning of these posts.  I welcome comments and constructive critiscisim.  It will let me know If I should even bother posting the remainder of the series I have planned.  In case anyone is curious, my next posts in this line will cover:

UNLOCKS.     *** Edit:  unlocks: http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=34809 ***
MAPS.      *** Edit: maps: http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=35011 ***
COMMANDERS ASSETS.  ***Edit: commander's assets: http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=35104 ***
VEHICLES. *** Edit: vehicles: http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=35071 ***
Let me know what you think!

Last edited by imortal (2006-07-15 21:50:19)

2006-07-13 23:02:00
eagles1106
Member
+269|7027|Marlton, New Jersey.
Air Vehicles are my favorite so I would list them...

USAF:
F/A-22 Raptor
F-16 Falcon
AC-130
F-15S MTD
A-10
Rah-66
plus the cobra and apache

MEC AF:
Su-37 Terminator
Su-47 Berkut
Su-39
Mig-1.44
Mig-27
Ka-52
Mi-24

PLA AF:
J10 (again )
J11 (a version of the su-27)
J7 (version of the mig-21)
Q-5 Fantan
H-6 (version of Tu-16)
Z-10
Sa-342L Gazelle

EA and Dice will never make a new game anyway, but if there are any more booster packs with the same armies as vanilla, I would like to see some of the aircraft and helos i listed

And if the AC-130 was ever put in BF2, for the maps it would be used in, it could be used instead of artillery.  So the USAF or USMC wouldnt have arty for those maps, just the AC-130 which can be shot down, but harder to shoot down then normal fighters

Last edited by eagles1106 (2006-07-13 23:03:50)

2006-07-13 23:05:14
imortal
Member
+240|7108|Austin, TX

eagles1106 wrote:

Air Vechiles are my favorite so I would list them...

USAF:
F/A-22 Raptor
F-16 Falcon
AC-130
F-15S MTD
A-10
Rah-66 (helo)
plus the cobra and apache

MEC AF:
Su-37 Terminator
Su-47 Berkut
Su-39
Mig-1.44
Mig-27
Ka-52
Mi-24

PLA AF:
J10 (again )
J11 (a version of the su-27)
J7 (version of the mig-21)
Q-5 Fantan
H-6 (version of Tu-16)
Z-10
Sa-342L Gazelle

EA and Dice will never make a new game anyway, but if there are any more booster packs with the same armies as vanilla, I would like to see some of the aircraft and helos i listed
Well, I was going to cover aircraft in the vehicles section... I also think there should be an air superiority fighter, with no bobmb or air-to-surface missiles, but lots of air-to-air.  F-22, MIG 27, Eurofighter, etc...
2006-07-13 23:10:47
eagles1106
Member
+269|7027|Marlton, New Jersey.
Air superiority, i didnt list enough??!?!?!?
here the air superiority planes in my long ass list in the post above

F/A-22
F-16 (can be air superiority if you arm it right...)

F-15S MTD <- one of the coolest planes ive ever seen, go wiki it or google it, its so sexy (type in F-15 Active for more results on google)

Su-37
Su-47
Mig-1.44
J-10
J-11
J-7

Last edited by eagles1106 (2006-07-13 23:15:55)

2006-07-13 23:14:39
imortal
Member
+240|7108|Austin, TX

eagles1106 wrote:

Air superiority, i didnt list enough??!?!?!?
here the air superiority planes in my long ass list in the post above

F/A-22
F-16 (can be air superiority if you arm it right...)
F-15S MTD <- one of the coolest planes ive ever seen, go wiki it or google it, its so sexy
Su-37
Su-47
Mig-1.44
J-10
J-11
J-7
lol, you did list a lot, and thank you.  I was just looking for 4 right now.  1 each for the US, MEC, PLA, and EU.  More to be revealed in the maps and vehicles posts.  That is, if it looks like anyone wants to hear any more.
2006-07-14 03:11:19
Longbow
Member
+163|7090|Odessa, Ukraine
Why everybody wants air superiority jets or fighters ? Logicaly the only jets that must be wide spread in BF2(3,4) are air-to-ground attack jets , such as SU-39 , A-10 , Panavia Tornado etc . Fighter should be included only to huge maps such as CLean Sweep .

p/s imortal , why BF4 ? I thought that after 2142 it will be BF3
anyways , kit idea is good , but in my opinion if you separate assault to rifleman & greandier , then give grenadier less mags but more nades , 8-10 for example .
I also enjoyed your idea with scout carrying silenced weapons and laser disignator

Last edited by Longbow (2006-07-14 03:17:12)

2006-07-14 03:30:46
Sydney
2λчиэλ
+783|7286|Reykjavík, Iceland.
What about BF3?

BF2142 is just a scam on the same engine, just the same as BF:V was for BF1942
2006-07-14 03:36:04
i3igpete
Support Specialist
+6|6956
i like where you're going with the scout kit, and the dedicated AA guy.  the mortarman is a nice touch, but i think it wouldn't be too useful if people punish like they do now.
2006-07-14 03:39:14
Longbow
Member
+163|7090|Odessa, Ukraine
I'd also say : add choosing option between guided AT and shoot&froget AT ( same as SF RPG7 )
2006-07-14 03:47:13
nitro-dust
Member
+3|7118|karkland hotel
Nice idea of what could be improved. but a few things i would change are
The anti-air would have 8 missiles instead of 5 because it is a lot harder to hit a plane
The mortar man should see the laser that the scout puts down so he can shoot it as well
The arty that the commander gets he should have to aim himself
and the comm has to get into the UAV station and control it himself to


Plus nice idea bout the boinos
2006-07-14 04:03:20
SkoobyDu
'CLICK JOIN NOW'... OK lets go... BOOM!!!! =FFS=
+120|7004|Cheshire, UK
If only there was that much choice, or even the option for extra unlocks.
2006-07-14 04:29:38
Longbow
Member
+163|7090|Odessa, Ukraine

nitro-dust wrote:

The anti-air would have 8 missiles instead of 5
Maybe 20 ? Ever thought what this AA-men would to one choper ?
2006-07-14 04:46:49
.:XDR:.PureFodder
Member
+105|7272

imortal wrote:

KIT 3) Mortarman:  This kit provides a special weapon of a mortar.  can only be used kneeling and stationary.  CAnnot move or stand when mortar is equiped!!  Pretty rough sight, and only average accuracy, but can lob mortar rounds 100m (in-game distance).  1 round every 3 seconds, carries 5 rounds.  Shotgun as primary weapon.  This kit can gather a lot of kills... but has a deadly potential for TKs, and you cannot move, dodge, or hide while you are using the mortar.  Each mortar has about 4 times the power of a rifle grenade, with 3 times the burst range (or about half as poweerful as a single artillery burst)
Imagine the hotel on karkand with 40 odd people lobbing mortar rounds everywhere.....
2006-07-14 04:51:23
eusgen
Nugget
+402|7235|Jupiter
Getting a little ahead of ourselves arn't we?
2006-07-14 04:54:35
5peedy
Member
+27|7042|the Faroe Islands
scout idea is just what is missing, i would be scout all the time ... mortar is ok, AA would be cool... +1
2006-07-14 05:20:56
imortal
Member
+240|7108|Austin, TX

.:XDR:.PureFodder wrote:

imortal wrote:

KIT 3) Mortarman:  This kit provides a special weapon of a mortar.  can only be used kneeling and stationary.  CAnnot move or stand when mortar is equiped!!  Pretty rough sight, and only average accuracy, but can lob mortar rounds 100m (in-game distance).  1 round every 3 seconds, carries 5 rounds.  Shotgun as primary weapon.  This kit can gather a lot of kills... but has a deadly potential for TKs, and you cannot move, dodge, or hide while you are using the mortar.  Each mortar has about 4 times the power of a rifle grenade, with 3 times the burst range (or about half as poweerful as a single artillery burst)
Imagine the hotel on karkand with 40 odd people lobbing mortar rounds everywhere.....
True, I had not completely realized the spawn camping potential, there.  I was hoping that with the immobility and possible innacuracy of the round would make that less appealing.  I think there should also be a minimum range, so the mortarman cannot fire within around 25 meters of his own position. 

Also, if I ever get to the map portion of my little brain child, I was thinking of 'intermediate' spawn points between flags, so camping a flag would get more difficult. 

Great comment, and very very constructive!
2006-07-14 11:43:46
Watermeleon
Member
+34|6977|I am located at my location
So is there going to be like a BF4 mod or something, because EA is never going to do what you suggest.
2006-07-15 04:54:38
imortal
Member
+240|7108|Austin, TX
Personally, I am hoping that when EA/Dice get over the BF 2142 release and patches, not to mention the inevitable booster pack, that they will be looking for a better way to suck money out of us.  I am also hoping that they choose the BF2 genre to update instead of another WWII, Vietnam, or future setting.  I am actually hoping to get the concepts here brushed up enough that we could send it to DICE as a suggestion letter with endorsing names attached.  If there were a couple hundred names of BF2 players asking for the same thing on the same letter, not as a mod or update, but an idea for a new game, maybe even with a new engine and technology if it is available...

As to WHY I call it BF4, you can think of it as BF2 2.0 (2 +2) or BF2 squared.  Or you can take it as cynasism that they will mess up BF3 as well, but can eventually get it right.
2006-07-15 05:02:00
BattlefieldMedic
Member
+25|7044|Sydney City, THE city.
The Scout Class seems interesting. I would most likely use that. I hope setting up flares for the commander to drop artillery for the commander would earn you points?

--Off-topic--
Do you happen to play CoD2? They have a mission where you have to do that in North Africa...
--On topic--
2006-07-15 10:08:36
imortal
Member
+240|7108|Austin, TX

BattlefieldMedic wrote:

The Scout Class seems interesting. I would most likely use that. I hope setting up flares for the commander to drop artillery for the commander would earn you points?

--Off-topic--
Do you happen to play CoD2? They have a mission where you have to do that in North Africa...
--On topic--
My ideas on the scout class are a bit different.  Instead of spotting for artillery, the laser designator would be for laser guided munitions.  Where do these come from?  The Fighter/ Bomber, of course.  Also from a Commander's Asset called the predator.  And, as you will soon see in my vehicles post, from CAS planes, and modern attack helicooters.

I view it to work in two parts.  Kit space 5 would be a set of binos, moderate power.  This is the scouting function.  Whatever enemy the scout sees lights up for everyone as if a UAV were overhead.

The second function is the designator.  This would be kit space 6, although switching from 5 to 6 and back would just seem like changing magnifications.  The designator would have a high power.  The enemies seen no longer light up for everyone, but the scout can now use his laser function.  all enemy armored vehicles in his Line of sight have brackets around them, just like the bomber missile gunner.  Right-click and hold, and the target vehicle boxes up and is locked.  If anyone with laser guided munitions is in line of sight, and within flight range of their missiles, and is looking, they will see the lock on their screen, and can fire at it.

If someone can see the target he is desinating, the scout will hear a voice and get a text message of "Eyes on your target." When the scout left-clicks, he sends a fire command to whoever can see the target.  When the missile is fired, the voice either says "Missile inbound," or "Payload on the way,"  or whatever.

The other option is the predator asset.  When the commander launches this asset, he has to select a single scout to whom this presitor will respond.  The preditor carries 2 laser guided missiles.  When the scout has one and he locks up a target, the left click will fire one of the drones missiles.

Scoring: if the target the scout is lasing is destroyed, the scout will get a +1 for laser designating.  If he launched the missile from the predator, he will also get 2 points for the kill.  Otherwise, the two points goes to the guy who did nothing but click and fire the missile.  Noone ever said life was fair.

DANGER: The only way I can see to balance this out.  When a vehicle is being painted by a scout, he of course hears the lock tone.  He will also be able to see, if he scans around, a bead of light.  This bead will be the laser from the scouts designator.  Only the vehicle being beamed can see it, however.  This is to keep it sort of fair.  Even a scout cannot camp forever and just paint targets all day long.  One of his victims will come back to haunt him.

Oh, and other than BF2, I play Rainbow 6: Raven Shield.  Between full time work, part time school, and the girlfriend, there is not much time for anything else.
2006-07-15 10:14:06
imortal
Member
+240|7108|Austin, TX

Longbow wrote:

nitro-dust wrote:

The anti-air would have 8 missiles instead of 5
Maybe 20 ? Ever thought what this AA-men would to one choper ?
The AA man would only fire a single missile at a time, and only have 5 missiles total.  The reload time would keep him from shooting twice at the same plane in the same run.  Maybe a stupid helicopter, though.  The idea of this is to pair up.  Two or three AA men, especially with a Machinegunner squad leader, can easily guard an area from aircraft.

You want something REALLY scary?  Start getting AA guys to sit in the blackhawk or Hip.  Or, even better, the <BLEEEEP>. Sorry, gotta wait for the vehicle posting for that one.  But how about 4 AA missilemen in a boat?

This is one reason I am advocating some beefing up of the aircraft as well.  "BF4" will be a dangerous place for everyone.
2006-07-15 11:49:27
seymorebutts443
Ready for combat
+211|7038|Belchertown Massachusetts, USA
very nice ideas, scout would be a good idea and its predator which is basically the UAV we have now except outfitted with 2 hellfire missiles (sry to spoil the fun) what would be better if it would be a laser guided bomb that was dropped from a passing NPC aircraft (f/a-18 etc.) the bomb would have the same blast radius as a laser guided missile. but its like an artillary strike and can only be accesed by the commander but the scout who painted the target gets points because he helped, this would promote teamwork (but also may addmore complaints toward the comm being a dumbass). please expand on this
2006-07-15 15:18:30
imortal
Member
+240|7108|Austin, TX

seymorebutts443 wrote:

very nice ideas, scout would be a good idea and its predator which is basically the UAV we have now except outfitted with 2 hellfire missiles (sry to spoil the fun) what would be better if it would be a laser guided bomb that was dropped from a passing NPC aircraft (f/a-18 etc.) the bomb would have the same blast radius as a laser guided missile. but its like an artillary strike and can only be accesed by the commander but the scout who painted the target gets points because he helped, this would promote teamwork (but also may addmore complaints toward the comm being a dumbass). please expand on this
My ideas include a greatly expanded role for the commander, but most of that will come in the post with commander's assets.  Basically, when the commander launches a preditor (and yes, it is a UAV with hellfire missiles), before it launches, the icon of every currently living scout highlights, with the requesting scout pulsing.  the commander clicks on the scout who the preditor will be assigned to.  The selected scout now has 2 laser guided missiles under his command.

Please remember, the scout can paint targets for other player aircraft, allowing them to fire laser guided munitions from much further away, and without the plane needing its own lock.  This should give the scout enough of a boost.  I am hoping so, anyway.
2006-07-15 15:23:26
imortal
Member
+240|7108|Austin, TX

i3igpete wrote:

i like where you're going with the scout kit, and the dedicated AA guy.  the mortarman is a nice touch, but i think it wouldn't be too useful if people punish like they do now.
I agree, which is what I think will keep the mortarman from becoming overly popular and have a dozen of them bombarding the area.  Personally, I would like to see a punished TK give -4 to the TKer, but -1 to the person who died.  See how much they are willing to forgive and punish then.  A forgiven TK would be -1 to the TKer, but no adverse action to the TKed.  After all, if the guy you killed forgave you, why should the game punish you?


Also, while I am complaining about TKs, I think that aircraft should be excepted from the 'friendly roadkill.'  The system tracks HOW you kill someone.  IF you run over a friendly with a jet or helicopter, it should not count against you.  You drop bombs and kill your teamates; you are still a dumbass.
2006-07-15 15:51:29
Snorkelfarsan
Soup Boy
+32|7049|Stockholm, Sweden
Imortal<--- Even though I agree with you that there has to be changes in the Kits section of the game. I personally believe that its better the way they are making it in BF2142. With only four kits, total. Instead of 7 or a lot more, like you are suggesting. Then you wont end up in a situation were you're a sniper behind a tank, and cant blow it up with a C4. Or a medic with no ammo, etc. See were I'm going?

Altough i must say I still think your Ideas abut the kits are cool and smart, and would not at all be disappointed if the next game would have those options.

 

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