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UON
Junglist Massive
+223|5734
splixx
ChupaCABRA
+53|5820|Omaha, Nebraska
Bush is a serious problem period... With a 34% approval rating more and more people are seeing the light.
IronFerret
Member
+48|5738|Mexico City.
he need to put it that way.. the easy way to justify all the stupid things he has done last 6 years.  So hes calling himself a hero figthing WW3(LOL), but is just political marketing.

Last edited by IronFerret (2006-05-07 11:50:51)

IronFerret
Member
+48|5738|Mexico City.

Mike_J wrote:

are you guys pretending that the fight against global terrorism isn't a war?  open your eyes..
and you pretend that figth a war against global terrorism (also "global" is just middle east), would be solve  occupying  every muslim nation in the world.. that just gonna make more terrorism... Iraq had no terrorism before ocupation and now.. look at media and open your eyes.

also want to open your eyes.. this is how heroic iraq ocupation is:

"Philip Bloom, the American businessman at the center of a widening inquiry into corruption in Iraq, pleaded guilty Tuesday to federal charges of conspiracy, bribery, and money laundering for illegally obtaining millions of dollars in 2003 and 2004 that were meant for the reconstruction of Iraq."

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0420/dailyUpdate.html

A U.S. government audit found American-led occupation authorities squandered tens of millions of dollars that were supposed to be used to rebuild Iraq through undocumented spending and outright fraud.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10789266/

    In one case, the Pentagon's own Defense Contract Audit Agency found that the leading U.S. contractor in Iraq, Halliburton subsidiary KBR, overcharged Iraq occupation authorities by $108 million for a task order to deliver fuel.

http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/ … gi/37/9946

Urgent measures must be taken to prevent the reconstruction of Iraq from turning into the world's biggest corruption scandal in history, a respected anti-corruption watchdog has said.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/ … FCC58A.htm

In the United States, a former official has admitted stealing millions of dollars meant for the reconstruction of Iraq.
Robert Stein admitted to stealing $2m from reconstruction funds.
Some of that money, the court heard, was smuggled onto aircraft and flown back to the United States in suitcases.
The case is an ugly twist in the tale of post-war Iraq.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4675902.stm

Last edited by IronFerret (2006-05-07 11:57:33)

Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|5891|Nårvei

Not sure about Bush, but the coalision of warmongerers that fund him must be very pleased with how things have worked out, they sell arms for trillions of dollars so the few hundred millions they put into his campaign looks like a bad tip in a restaurant.

I`ve always been a fan of the US and we have a lot to thank them for the last 60 - 70 years but now i think they have taken their global politics a tad to far, they`ve made the entire middleeast their enemy and along the way they are loosing support amongst allies that grow tired of the world police theater they conduct.

Hope the US will wise up and concider there are more issues than waging war - cause war is never the solution to anything.

All the money used making guns in the US and the other I-countries could have made the rest of the world a better place for everyone with clean water and a school to goto every day so they could educate themselves out of misery.
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
splixx
ChupaCABRA
+53|5820|Omaha, Nebraska

Mike_J wrote:

are you guys pretending that the fight against global terrorism isn't a war?  open your eyes.
No you need to open your eye's to the truth.
splixx
ChupaCABRA
+53|5820|Omaha, Nebraska

IronFerret wrote:

Mike_J wrote:

are you guys pretending that the fight against global terrorism isn't a war?  open your eyes..
and you pretend that figth a war against global terrorism (also "global" is just middle east), would be solve  occupying  every muslim nation in the world.. that just gonna make more terrorism... Iraq had no terrorism before ocupation and now.. look at media and open your eyes.

also want to open your eyes.. this is how heroic iraq ocupation is:

"Philip Bloom, the American businessman at the center of a widening inquiry into corruption in Iraq, pleaded guilty Tuesday to federal charges of conspiracy, bribery, and money laundering for illegally obtaining millions of dollars in 2003 and 2004 that were meant for the reconstruction of Iraq."

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0420/dailyUpdate.html

A U.S. government audit found American-led occupation authorities squandered tens of millions of dollars that were supposed to be used to rebuild Iraq through undocumented spending and outright fraud.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10789266/

    In one case, the Pentagon's own Defense Contract Audit Agency found that the leading U.S. contractor in Iraq, Halliburton subsidiary KBR, overcharged Iraq occupation authorities by $108 million for a task order to deliver fuel.

http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/ … gi/37/9946

Urgent measures must be taken to prevent the reconstruction of Iraq from turning into the world's biggest corruption scandal in history, a respected anti-corruption watchdog has said.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/ … FCC58A.htm

In the United States, a former official has admitted stealing millions of dollars meant for the reconstruction of Iraq.
Robert Stein admitted to stealing $2m from reconstruction funds.
Some of that money, the court heard, was smuggled onto aircraft and flown back to the United States in suitcases.
The case is an ugly twist in the tale of post-war Iraq.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4675902.stm
Good posts... there is SO much info out there about what is really going on... To bad our people are in a media black out.
Beorn_23_7
Heathenish Foray
+22|5719|Upstate NY
Bush is a puppet of the Neo Conservatives.
For what its worth check out the Defense Policy Guidence paper of 1992 by Paul Wolfowitz and the man he worked for at the time, Dick Cheney.

Here is an article from the NY Times:
http://work.colum.edu/~amiller/wolfowitz1992.htm

also check the Clean Break paper of 1996 by Richard Perle and Douglas Feith. It was a recomendation to Netanyahu after he took office as Israeli PM.

http://www.israeleconomy.org/strat1.htm
TheDarkRaven
ATG's First Disciple
+263|5705|Birmingham, UK
It used to be pretty global...it's scaled down to a hard-core Africa and (I sadly say) Middle-East,
ShellShock.PwN
Member
+31|5868|Barrie Ontario
Yesterday a british helo crashed and it looked like Blackhawk down all over again. I say just bomb em all end of story no more soldiers killed.
kessel!
Peruvian Cocaine
+261|5846|Toronto Canada
the war on terrorism is not a war. it is a blackhole. terrorists will always exist in some way shape or form, so spending billions of dollars fighting them is like burning money. Terrorism is wrong, i know that, but the only reason the US started this "war" is a select few can benefit.
WilhelmSissener
Banned
+557|5814|Oslo, Norway
https://img68.imageshack.us/img68/5521/negative48cc.jpg
JaMDuDe
Member
+69|5858
I say we drop a few bombs and save America and Europe and all world problems are gone
splixx
ChupaCABRA
+53|5820|Omaha, Nebraska

kessel! wrote:

the war on terrorism is not a war. it is a blackhole. terrorists will always exist in some way shape or form, so spending billions of dollars fighting them is like burning money. Terrorism is wrong, i know that, but the only reason the US started this "war" is a select few can benefit.
You are correct. For one we bomb the hell out of Falluja destroy most of a city(Example of one city)... Then people come back after the bombing.. They find there dead family... House turned to pebbles...They are offered $300 dollars to rebuild.... Let's think... Who did we just create? A new terrorist.

That is exactly what I would become if someone came destroyed my family and home. So everyone one so called terrorist in Iraq that is killed 100's are created... We will not win.
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|5847|UK
Its the illuminati ITS ALWAYS THE ILLUMINATI.....

jking..
spacebandit72
Dead Meat
+121|5811|Michigan
well, my opinion... our country (U.S.) is so screwed up. I support Bush for my own reasons.
Think for one moment about what he has to do. 911 happens... the people want something done. What does he do? Everyone (Dem&Rep) decided to go to Iraq. This is not something you can retract after a month of being there.
Bush is in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.
If he just left the whole thing alone... people would be pissed.
I'm not saying war is good or that Bush is the best guy for the job. I'm stating the facts.

Imagine what might happen if the U.S. found a way to expedite the process of leaving Iraq safley and we decide to just leave the middle east alone.
That would give any terrorists free reign and time to build forces. A bit paranoid? maby but if and when another terrorist attack happens in the U.S. It will always be Bush's fault.

Before I get any negative karma... I want it to be very clear... I do not like either party. They are all corrupt and liars! I support Bush because he is in office and has a crappy job weeding through all the bullshit. I'm sure he never woke up in the morning thinking "I think I'll start wwIII and kill thousands of my own people for the fun of it."

sorry fo going on. bit off topic my bad.

Last edited by spacebandit72 (2006-05-07 13:17:21)

Horseman 77
Banned
+160|5918
I see we have another Cut and paste link prodigy in our midst. Don't encourage him!

Adding 8 hyper links to your post is not a substitute for having an argument grounded in fact.

He was praising the Heroism of the passengers who decided to resist the hijackers on their Flight rather than let them kill thousands more innocents.

   No more than that.

   Non issue.

   Sorry.
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|5918

splixx wrote:

kessel! wrote:

the war on terrorism is not a war. it is a blackhole. terrorists will always exist in some way shape or form, so spending billions of dollars fighting them is like burning money. Terrorism is wrong, i know that, but the only reason the US started this "war" is a select few can benefit.
You are correct. For one we bomb the hell out of Falluja destroy most of a city(Example of one city)... Then people come back after the bombing.. They find there dead family... House turned to pebbles...They are offered $300 dollars to rebuild.... Let's think... Who did we just create? A new terrorist.

That is exactly what I would become if someone came destroyed my family and home. So everyone one so called terrorist in Iraq that is killed 100's are created... We will not win.
This War started when israel was created.  The US did not create israel alone. The US has been in this War for a long time. We will win.

The thing that is on our side is knowledge. Knowledge has a way of spreading. It is difficult to contain and spreads on its own as if it has a will to do so.
Knowledge can be twisted and subverted for sure but only for a while, but show me someone who has been lied to and manipulated by his leaders and I will show you a motivated enemy.

Note: We do not fall into this class you will notice. ( typing blather and insults here does not constitute "The good fight ! " Sorry but you knew that. )

The reason the War was accelerated ( by our Enemies ) was the Hold of total ignorance that our opponents had over their people is ebbing.
With access to world wide news sources the Internet, Relatives who immigrated here. Etc., these people wont be able to be whipped up into a Religious frenzy for much longer.
( 72 virgins ) how long will that really last? its almost Comical if it wasn't so Sad.
They know Now what we look like, how we think, that we don't follow or own leaders blindly, we question our leaders, prod them, goad them, insult them.
They know they cant. Or rather Couldn't. Now they can in Iraq. They know why we are there in their land if you don't. With half of the new Voters in Iraq being women (mothers) how will that effect the age old Ruling class that was till recently composed solely of men? These people aren't dumb. If our efforts there are clumsy or misguided, They all know some who was lowered feet first into a shredder when it was Business as usual. These people are not suckers and they don't fall for the Stupid propaganda 100% Though I am sure some do. As some still do here.
You can fool some of the people all the time all the people some of the Time

Further, This " I know it all" attitude is the First thing you lose when you really start to learn.
Show me someone, Anyone from any field who says " I know all there is to learn" and I will show you an intellectually stunted person.

Last edited by Horseman 77 (2006-05-07 14:04:32)

GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|5725
whats in a name, nothing changes.
Rellim83
Member
+7|5763|PA

IronFerret wrote:

Mike_J wrote:

are you guys pretending that the fight against global terrorism isn't a war?  open your eyes..
and you pretend that figth a war against global terrorism (also "global" is just middle east), would be solve  occupying  every muslim nation in the world.. that just gonna make more terrorism... Iraq had no terrorism before ocupation and now.. look at media and open your eyes.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4675902.stm
.......I iraq had no terrorism before.......ARE U SERIOUS!!!!!!
The guy (Sadam Hussein)  made a public announcement providing a safe haven to all terrorists against America right after the invasion of afghanistan

He consistently bombed and murdered political rivals in the north and south(thats why they had a no fly zone since desert storm)

He has used chemical and biological weapons in the past.  (Israel, Kuwait)

He ploted to assassinate a former president.  (Bush sr.)

Oh ya and their was that whole thing about refusing to let weapons inspectors into the country for like 6 years....ya he might not have had anything but how could anybody possibly believe that when he refused to let weapons inspectors into the country.

I absolutly agree that the occupation in iraq has many problems, but i completly support going to war. Saddam was a threat to America, his neighbors, and his own people.  Saddam was given ample time and many warnings refusing to comply with weapons inspectors, all he had to do was let them inspect his facilities. He was stupid enough to refuse and thats why we had to go to war with him.
splixx
ChupaCABRA
+53|5820|Omaha, Nebraska

Horseman 77 wrote:

splixx wrote:

kessel! wrote:

the war on terrorism is not a war. it is a blackhole. terrorists will always exist in some way shape or form, so spending billions of dollars fighting them is like burning money. Terrorism is wrong, i know that, but the only reason the US started this "war" is a select few can benefit.
You are correct. For one we bomb the hell out of Falluja destroy most of a city(Example of one city)... Then people come back after the bombing.. They find there dead family... House turned to pebbles...They are offered $300 dollars to rebuild.... Let's think... Who did we just create? A new terrorist.

That is exactly what I would become if someone came destroyed my family and home. So everyone one so called terrorist in Iraq that is killed 100's are created... We will not win.
This War started when israel was created.  The US did not create israel alone. The US has been in this War for a long time. We will win.

The thing that is on our side is knowledge. Knowledge has a way of spreading. It is difficult to contain and spreads on its own as if it has a will to do so.
Knowledge can be twisted and subverted for sure but only for a while, but show me someone who has been lied to and manipulated by his leaders and I will show you a motivated enemy.

Note: We do not fall into this class you will notice. ( typing blather and insults here does not constitute "The good fight ! " Sorry but you knew that. )

The reason the War was accelerated ( by our Enemies ) was the Hold of total ignorance that our opponents had over their people is ebbing.
With access to world wide news sources the Internet, Relatives who immigrated here. Etc., these people wont be able to be whipped up into a Religious frenzy for much longer.
( 72 virgins ) how long will that really last? its almost Comical if it wasn't so Sad.
They know Now what we look like, how we think, that we don't follow or own leaders blindly, we question our leaders, prod them, goad them, insult them.
They know they cant. Or rather Couldn't. Now they can in Iraq. They know why we are there in their land if you don't. With half of the new Voters in Iraq being women (mothers) how will that effect the age old Ruling class that was till recently composed solely of men? These people aren't dumb. If our efforts there are clumsy or misguided, They all know some who was lowered feet first into a shredder when it was Business as usual. These people are not suckers and they don't fall for the Stupid propaganda 100% Though I am sure some do. As some still do here.
You can fool some of the people all the time all the people some of the Time

Further, This " I know it all" attitude is the First thing you lose when you really start to learn.
Show me someone, Anyone from any field who says " I know all there is to learn" and I will show you an intellectually stunted person.
I kind of chuckle when I hear how much superior we are then anyone else. Rome had it's day... I must say I would reply to all of this but there is not much need. The US used to be a super power but now our  leadership is all about greed and corruption. Our politicians have all but sold us all off to other countries... Wake up and the truth shall set you free.
UON
Junglist Massive
+223|5734

Mike_J wrote:

splixx wrote:

kessel! wrote:

the war on terrorism is not a war. it is a blackhole. terrorists will always exist in some way shape or form, so spending billions of dollars fighting them is like burning money. Terrorism is wrong, i know that, but the only reason the US started this "war" is a select few can benefit.
You are correct. For one we bomb the hell out of Falluja destroy most of a city(Example of one city)... Then people come back after the bombing.. They find there dead family... House turned to pebbles...They are offered $300 dollars to rebuild.... Let's think... Who did we just create? A new terrorist.

That is exactly what I would become if someone came destroyed my family and home. So everyone one so called terrorist in Iraq that is killed 100's are created... We will not win.
Yet again, more talk straight from people's asses.  Do you have any idea why Fallujah had some of the worst fighting?  Are you aware that we dropped leaflets and publically announced that we were going to roll through that city?  That city was the biggest terrorist safe haven in Iraq.  You realize that the reason we publically announced going into Fallujah was to warn innocent civilians to leave the city?  Many of them did pal.  If I can recall right, they were warned about 1 or 2 months before we even went in there.  Remember the reporters that went in there that were massacred and hung on the bridge entrance to the city?  That battle was actually very effective in killing and capturing massive amounts of terrorists, many of them from Iran, Syria, and Chechnya.
I don't think the argument is about how many alleged terrorists are killed and captured in that single battle, merely an observation that the (either perceived or real) indiscriminate destruction of peoples homes is not an effective way to wage war in the long term as it will create just as many if not more enemies amongst the surviving population.  Plus it looks really, really bad.
Ditsch
Need another Monster
+3|5674|Chandler, Arizona
If WWIII does happen no one will live through it, and if people do their children and them will be messed up.
crazygunner
Member
+3|5652
I dont know why people voted and kept that dumbass in office.
Mike_J
Member
+68|5750
I don't think the argument is about how many alleged terrorists are killed and captured in that single battle, merely an observation that the (either perceived or real) indiscriminate destruction of peoples homes is not an effective way to wage war in the long term as it will create just as many if not more enemies amongst the surviving population.  Plus it looks really, really bad.
Tell that to the guys that had to go clear out Berlin in WWII.  Of course it looks bad, you're right, but we can't just go knocking on the door of every house that someone is shooting us from.  We did exactly what we should've done, especially considering that Fallujah was a very large gathering area for the Mujahideen.  Now that the large operation is over and only have to deal with pesky IEDs or pop shots, we started to help rebuild the city.

Last edited by Mike_J (2006-05-07 15:19:42)

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