LSD_Wash
Member
+64|6835
I've been reading many of the posts about 1.2 and have witheld most of my comments because I wanted to give the patch a fair shot.  So after playing for several days I have come to several conclusions about this patch.  In short, it seems that many of the changes are both arbitrary and unnatural.

ar·bi·trar·y - adj. - Determined by chance, whim, or impulse, and not by necessity, reason, or principle

I hated bunny hoppers as much as anyone, but the arbitrary delays on going prone and standing up cause the game to lose its natural feel and immersion.  I feel like I have to wait for some artificial timer before making a move now... 3, 2, 1 prone... 3, 2, 1 stand up...  The same holds true for being medic and using this silly new 'shared charge' idea where if you drop med packs you magically can't revive anyone.  It seems like a silly and random solution to the perceived problem that medics were getting too many points. 

The same holds true for C4 placement and trigger switching.  Place C4... 3... 2... 1... place another... press the switch to trigger button... 3... 2... press it again because it doesn't seem to have worked...  oh shit, now I'm back to C4...  3... 2...  <death by tank>

The same is true for shooting while jumping.  If you make the 'tragic mistake' of pressing the fire button a millisecond before you land, you have to let up and press it again.  This is arbitrary, artificial, and a piss poor solution for a problem.

un·nat·u·ral - adj. - In violation of a natural law.  Inconsistent with an individual pattern or custom.  Contrived or constrained; artificial

These seemingly subtle changes completely change the feel for those of us who are 'twitch' players. (which by now is most of us)  I think about doing something and my hands automatically do it without thinking about the mechanics of things... to play otherwise feels very deliberate and mechanical and not much fun.

Everything also feels very slow and sluggish now.  I'm not sure if I'm getting lower FPS now (I do have two 7800GTX cards running in SLI so I damn sure hope not) or if sprint times are shorter, if if it's just the slowness of the prone/stand transitions but it just feels like the whole game is running through mollases now.

The lack of sounds from people shooting, the TOW missles going through targets, etc. are all blatant bugs which will hopefully be adressed.  But the issues I've mentioned above (except the possible drop in FPS) are appearantly the DESIRED outcome of this patch and I couldn't be more disappointed.

I'm not here to debate if the AA is too strong, if the PKM is too strong, whether choppers are too nerfed or not nerfed enough...  I'm here to discuss the arbitrary, artificial, and unnatural 'fixes' they made to what were admittedly problems.

I'm also not here to bitch/whine without at least trying to offer suggestions; so here goes:

C4 Chuckers:  keep the trigger switch times as they were but fix the animation bug (you had the trigger selected but it appears you really threw another C4 pack)

Medics healing too fast:  Just slow down the shock paddle recharge time and/or health pack recharge.  The sharing thing is confusing and silly and most people still don't understand it.

Bunny hoppers:  make shooting while jumping innacurate but adjust the accuracy once you land.  At least if you make the 'terrible mistake' of beginning to fire while in the air, you will continue to fire and become more accurate once your feet are on the ground.

I don't have all the answers, but the so-called 'answers' we were given in 1.2 are pretty piss poor.  I'm not here to bash EA/Dice and I think they've done an amazing job overall.  I just think they have really missed the boat on this patch.  Sorry for being so long-winded.

Thoughts?  Input?  Rants?  Better solutions?

(Edited for spelling)

Last edited by LSD_Wash (2006-02-21 14:08:37)

jonnykill
The Microwave Man
+235|6702
Nice thread man . I finally broke down and got the patch today and agree fully on everything you said . I also played Special forces for the first time today . I played for about 8 hours . I too feel it is just sluggish now . I feel like I'm running around with a big load of crap in my pants . Your soloutions here are really good ideas .
The medic thing pisses me off to no extent . And for the love of god I can't tell you how many times I run out of medic bags and the next weapon is - the grenade ! I killed so many people in this situation and got kicked from so many servers that now I have to spend extra care and endlessly have to keep an eye on my meter . Doing so usually distracts me from the battle field and I get killed by troops I would other wise keep an eye out for . With sluggish moving in the game to top it off medic totaly sucks now .

I don't know what it is now but since I got the patch it takes FOR EVER to get into games , verify client data and finally get into a game . Why ? Every other FPS game I have runs just fine cept for BF2 . Why ? COD runs like a charm as well as COD2 . But no BF2 - so annoying . Fix one thing break another I guess .

Over all though I think the patch needs to just be changed again . It just isn't BF2 anymore - it's like an attempt of being the great game I once played .
xaven
Member
+25|6755|Berlin
I totally agree with both posts before. I really feel like a noob now or my character (AT, specops whatsoever) is aged 65. Once I could fight (fight) an enemy. now I have to wait that he is killing me (with PKM from the hip in 30m range) while I go prone and aim with my g36E.

attacking a tank with c4 is almost impossible, because you cant run over longer ranges, it takes too much time to place c4 and you cant run away because there is no stamina left.

EA official servers keep on crashing, it cant finish ONE mapcycle.

so many issues stay, so many issues added. lately I dont play that often my favorite game.
jonnykill
The Microwave Man
+235|6702
UPDATE : I just spent another 3 hours playing SF . I can honestly say I'm done playing the game . It is simply too buggy , laggy , cludggy to enjoy any more . With the changes that were made and the reasons behind them I just don't like the after tatse .

On a side note I don't understand why people call other noobs for bunny hopping , saying it dosen't take any skill . This is so ironic . Your saying that a person who is jumping up and down firing at you has no skill but you lack the skill to kill them ? LOL makes me sick . I don't get it . I play this game way too much and I think I encounter 1 bunny hopper a day . Usually I kill them , sometimes I don't . They try to cap a flag , I spawn before they can cap it and I kill them in return - done . I don't see what all the fuss is about . EVERY FPS out there has bunny hopping . If you can't kill bunny hoppers then it is YOU ....... who has no skill .
Snipedya14
Dont tread on me
+77|6717|Mountains of West Virginia
Wow LSD_Wash a very well written and articulate post.

I personally like the end of bunny hopping, but do agree with some of your statments

Because i play sniper kit the most, i lay down quite alot, and everytime i stand up from prone, it takes what seems like hours to actually be able to shoot

So someone comes from behind me, i notice them and we start to shoot at each other, it gives them a good advantage.

Im not saying OMG IM GONNA SUCK NOW but it does feel off.
uk.solidsnake
Member
+3|6730|England, UK
Yes - you are absolutely correct. The game feels very mechanical and forced now, the delays between proning, jumping, shooting, everything just feel very unnatural.

It's very aggitating when I have just landed and jump, can see my target directly in front of me but I am waiting on a timer before I can actually shoot at him. The same goes when proning, when you stand up or lie down the delay before you can shoot your target is nothing short of frustrating.
LSD_Wash
Member
+64|6835
Thanks for the feedback.  I'm not really sure why there hasn't been more uproar over these changes.  Seems like all the talk is whining about whether AA is too strong, PKM is too accurate, and the silliness of non-destructable and non-teamkilling claymores.   Oh well... everyone has their gripes.  *shrug*
xhashashinx
Banned
+0|6675
yes yes ...it sucks...but it doesnt matter to me really....everyone also has these problems...so i dont look at it as a disadvantage....


lets keep whining till ea/dice changes the whole gay fake timer thing
topal63
. . .
+533|6740
Nearly identical to my sentiments. . . this patch is a major (rank-ish) mistake.

The alterations (code changes) to player movement were/are utterly unnecessary.

It would make more sense for the prone in air button press (Z) to actually do NOTHING. You press Z after a jump and NOTHING happens. When you actually land and press (Z) then you go prone. This would have made prone-ing in mid-air and getting the accuracy (and hard to hit low profile) associated with it impossible.

Also it has been suggested, as a better idea, to link jumping to stamina - this makes sense. Jumping requires effort just like sprinting does. 3 red stamina bars = your winded = recharging stamina = NO JUMP; 4-5 bars a low jump, 6-8 mid-height jump, 9 or more bars full height jump = EASY FIX.

Jumping while shooting = FUN. The only problem that needed addressing was accuracy of the weapon. It should decrease by some percentage 15%, 25%, 40% - or something%.
staticblue
Vindicator
+28|6758|Houston, TX
The time to stand from a prone position is fine with me. Lie down on your stomach with 40 pounds on your back and waste, and a gun in your hand and see how fast ya' get up.

For Bunny Hopping I agree with the drop in accuracy. I also think that when your stamina bar is empty you shouldn't be able to jump either. Then the bar should need to recharge to a 3rd to jump again. Three jumps for a full bar. Jumping is there to get places, not a defense tactic. The idea above me is cool but, a bit to complex and, would most likely cause more problems down the road. It would be better to edit the current script than make a new one. Plus, I have places to get to that would take way to long under those circumstances.


My main beef with the patch is that BF2:SF seems to be back to the point it was at its release. Laggy choppers again. Geometry black outs often. Interiors are super laggy too. These where issues that disappeared for me. They are back now though. Also, the AA missles bug me. Not the accuracy just the flight path they take at times.  Let's all cross our fingers and, hope 1.1.21 takes care of it . At least some of it.

Last edited by staticblue (2006-02-22 12:38:03)

Rutnab
Member
+15|6669
my two words are anus and blender
staticblue
Vindicator
+28|6758|Houston, TX

Rutnab wrote:

my two words are anus and blender
Ah a pointless post. Like the others you just made. Why?
Rutnab
Member
+15|6669

staticblue wrote:

Rutnab wrote:

my two words are anus and blender
Ah a pointless post. Like the others you just made. Why?
Ah a pointless question. Like the others you just asked. Why?
wannabe_tank_whore
Member
+5|6799

staticblue wrote:

The time to stand from a prone position is fine with me. Lie down on your stomach with 40 pounds on your back and waste, and a gun in your hand and see how fast ya' get up.
Now have a friend fire an automatic weapon at you and see how fast you move.  You can say this but when you're getting shot at you will find that 40lbs is nothing.  Remember, these are soldiers and not video game players or couch potatos.

Ever heard of "Down Ups"?  You run in place and when the coach blows a whistle you fall flat on your chest and then get up as fast as you can.  This was done when practice was 'over' and the coach was pissed at our performance.  Maybe not 40lbs but after practice and in full football pads it's pretty tough.
GotMex?
$623,493,674,868,715.98 in Debt
+193|6785

1.2 rules... game on!
DonWanKiddick
Member
+1|6667
firstly i agree with the poster ....here here....some issues have not been addressed i.e. tow going through the target..i noticed this in patch 1.03...same with switching glitch for speccy etc. i dont care about the PKM or AA changes or for that fact bunny/dolphin or noob tubers...as for sluggish well i havent noticed the game being any more sluggish cos i just upgraded me sys to 2gb ram, 7800gt and dual 3800 AMD cpu...so everything seems faster than before...(xp2400, GFX5700, 1.3gb ram) i always thought it took ages between getting up and firing anyway despite what this patch has done...basically this is the first thread that actually covers changes that dont consist of slagging EA/DICE or calling peeps unskilled noobs....observational threads are more constructive than critical name calling ones....one other thing whats the point of all these ranks? you dont get out for them!! cept unlocks and the ability to command over lower ranks..i just started a new player and i have played for 42 mins....ive got a better K:d, SPM and accuracy than the guy ive played as for 500hours....weird really lol...most of the complaints for this patch could be addressed if EA played/listened better...and maybe made some little changes...dont nerf choppers and jets just make it a requirement that they acctually have to land to re-arm...that will give ground troops a bit more time to move unhindered..instead of this total bomb fest we have to suffer...
[iLL]h8+
Member
+26|6738|Florida
I posted comments simular to this in other threads.  I completely quit using the Spec Ops class.  You can look how big of a statement that was considering it was like 75% of my class played.  I was also ranked in the top 100 in the world for that class and now I do not even look at it. 

I do like the patch because it made me explore other classes, BUT it did chop up the game and make it entirely too much work to play.  I mean, I full like my computer went from a 1337 machine to a palm pilot.  Counter strike cut out bunny hopping and they made it where your first jump was a full jump and each continuous jump became shorter.

That really helped about and made it where you could still jump if you needed, but not look all crackhead dodging bullets like Neo.

The time between C4 is useless and leads to accidental deaths or just getting popped by a new spawner or the Armor itself.

AA is a little strong, but prone to TK before hitting the actual target.

Either way, 1.21 is suppose to address the obvious bugs, but should at least curb some of the game play nerfs they did.
k0balt
Member
+1|6668|Cincinnati, OH
Great posts everyone...

Now what is EA/Dice going to do? Are these types of threads read by anyone at EA/Dice?
LSD_Wash
Member
+64|6835

k0balt wrote:

Great posts everyone...

Now what is EA/Dice going to do? Are these types of threads read by anyone at EA/Dice?
Good question.  I sort of doubt it since they have their own Message Board section on their official BF2 sight.  But BF2S > * so I post here.  Maybe I'll copy/paste it over there on their 'official' board.
JimCognito
Member
+10|6703
Great post LSD_Wash.  I'm pretty much with ya there on most of it.  I'm not anti bunny hopping what so ever since its been part of every BF game since 42 launched.  Taking out the firing while shooting has made the game clunky  as hell and it doesn't feel nearly as fluid and smooth as it did before.  I'd be all for a change though like you said in having aim while jumping be less accurate.  I read somewhere that someone had the idea that jumping would take off more of your sprint bar which I think could be a good idea but still leaves some questions to be answered or theres always the slow down a bit after jumping like in CS solution.

The game has become clunky and doesn't feel like a BF game anymore.

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